# West Wing 4/6 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 7, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140 "2005-04-07T01:37:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Turek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turek/32/18782_2.png) [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/1 "2005-04-07T01:37:20Z")
When are directors going to learn that handheld camera shots suck ass? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/2 "2005-04-07T01:58:32Z")
Evidently it’s on the agenda after they learn that being able to make a stirring speech doesn’t (or shouldn’t) automatically imply qualifications for high elected office. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/3 "2005-04-07T02:06:18Z")
I. Can’t. Suspend. Disbelief. Any. Longer. A Chief of Staff with medical problems as the Veep nod? WHAT?! A Congressman who gains the Party’s nomination? WHAT?! And with just one stirring speech as well… Jeezus ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/4 "2005-04-07T02:08:56Z")
That’s the first West Wing episode I’ve seen in 3 years and I wasn’t impressed. The storyline was easy to pick up so it wasn’t confusing, it was just that I could see the twists coming a mile away. And the camera work was awful. There’s no chance in hell that the chosen ticket could win the election. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/5 "2005-04-07T02:32:45Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I. Can’t. Suspend. Disbelief. Any. Longer. > > A Chief of Staff with medical problems as the Veep nod? WHAT?! A Congressman who gains the Party’s nomination? WHAT?! And with just one stirring speech as well… Jeezus OK… #1. Whoosh? Look at the current occupant of that job. A former CoS, and his issues are well-documented. #2. Agree. #3. That’s The West Wing for you. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/6 "2005-04-07T03:15:59Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > #1. Whoosh? Look at the current occupant of that job. A former CoS, and his issues are well-documented. _Dammit_. You beat me to it. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/7 "2005-04-07T03:34:41Z")
Recap of west wing buildup buildup buildup buildup buildup oh shit. We’ve got 3 minutes left in the episode. Why didn’t we pay more for an editor? OK. um…Santos wins. YAY! The season can end now. Oh, and just to throw my wacky theory out there: Bartlett was the one who leaked the shuttle info. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/8 "2005-04-07T03:44:29Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > #1. Whoosh? Look at the current occupant of that job. A former CoS, and his issues are well-documented Former CoS… he was also SecDef since then. If the only items on his resume were CoS and Congressman from insignificant state, he’d be in no position to get the job. The SecDef spot made him, and in particular, his leadership during Gulf War 1. What has Leo done that warrents the job? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/9 "2005-04-07T03:45:55Z")
Also Cheney complimented Bush as simply being smart. Bush had all the other qualities. What does Leo bring to the ticket? Does Santos need help seeming smart? ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/10 "2005-04-07T03:53:38Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Former CoS… he was also SecDef since then. If the only items on his resume were CoS and Congressman from insignificant state, he’d be in no position to get the job. The SecDef spot made him, and in particular, his leadership during Gulf War 1. What has Leo done that warrents the job? Leo was Secretary of Labor before he convinced Jed to run, as well as a former Air Force pilot (who apparently was a colonel.) I think it’s a very John Wells move to make Leo a VP candidate, especially after they tried to kill him off. I doubt Sorkin would have done it, but then again, I doubt Sorkin would have done a lot of things Wells has done. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/11 "2005-04-07T03:53:53Z")
I agree with the majority. The Veep choice was just stupid. He brings nothing to the table. The only possible benefit is that he might, just might be seen as a heavyweight on foreign affairs. Santos needs someone with more experience in that arena. Still a pretty lame pick though. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/12 "2005-04-07T03:58:18Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > Leo was Secretary of Labor before he convinced Jed to run, as well as a former Air Force pilot (who apparently was a colonel.) SecLabor isn’t one of the sexy Cabinet posts. If he was SecTreas, maybe I could see it. SecDef or SecState definetly has a chance in a political universe. But a SecLabor and CoS? Frankly I can’t see Elaine Chou (current SecLabor) or Robert Reich (former SecLabor) getting close to the VP in real life. ---
**Author:** ![brianjedi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@brianjedi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianjedi)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/13 "2005-04-07T04:05:12Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > SecLabor isn’t one of the sexy Cabinet posts. If he was SecTreas, maybe I could see it. SecDef or SecState definetly has a chance in a political universe. But a SecLabor and CoS? Frankly I can’t see Elaine Chou (current SecLabor) or Robert Reich (former SecLabor) getting close to the VP in real life. Well, remember, he had his SecLabor service, plus 7 years as WH CoS after getting an improbably candidate elected twice. He’s definitely qualified to be a VP, especially to a President who’s going to need quite a bit of guidance and experience (which is why I expect that Josh, Donna and maybe even Toby will be sticking around.) I can definitely see where Wells is going with this one. Texas politician, inexperienced in world affairs gets elected President with a VP who has years of Cabinet experience as well as being a former CoS. The difference is, this time they’re Democrats and not Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![SiouxChief](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@SiouxChief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiouxChief)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/14 "2005-04-07T04:12:03Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > Recap of west wing > > buildup buildup buildup buildup buildup > > oh shit. We’ve got 3 minutes left in the episode. Why didn’t we pay more for an editor? > > OK. um…Santos wins. YAY! The season can end now. Yeah the show ended kind of abruptly there, didn’t it. I’m glad they didn’t cut down the first 55 minutes of the show, though, because it was well done. They should have made this show a two-parter. > [@](#): > > Oh, and just to throw my wacky theory out there: Bartlett was the one who leaked the shuttle info. Of course it must have been C.J. Boy I’d love to see her get thrown in jail for 10 years. That’d be a great character departure for this show. I love Leo’s character, but I don’t like him as a choice for VP because it gives it away that Santos will be elected president. And honestly, I like Alan Alda too much to be able to dismiss him this early. I’m hoping for some kind of ultra-bizarre political debacle during the election next season. I hope it takes 5 or 6 shows, and somehow results in both Smits and Alda staying with the show for a few more years. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/15 "2005-04-07T04:13:59Z")
> [@brianjedi](#): > > Well, remember, he had his SecLabor service, plus 7 years as WH CoS after getting an improbably candidate elected twice. He’s definitely qualified to be a VP Not in my book he isn’t. A Veep is only good for getting states or a certain look to the ticket. Santos, as they have built him up, shows a remarkable grasp of policy and has been in Congress for more than one term. > [@](#): > > I can definitely see where Wells is going with this one. Texas politician, inexperienced in world affairs gets elected President with a VP who has years of Cabinet experience as well as being a former CoS. The difference is, this time they’re Democrats and not Republicans. Oy… if they try that, then I’m glad the next season will be the last… and good riddence. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/16 "2005-04-07T05:19:58Z")
I agree that in the real world, Leo would be a terrible choice for VP. A man who just had to retire from one job because of a heart attack, plus a history of alcoholism and painkiller abuse, plus a divorce. Plus he’ll now link the Santos ticket to every mistake the Bartlet administration made. On other issues, the speech was weak. I liked the New Hampshire ad; that one worked for me. This one didn’t. And Santos had agreed to drop out in exchange for the speech opportunity. Then he turns around and uses it to push his nomination. And Leo and the other candidates say nothing? Does everyone think it was CJ that leaked the shuttle? She’s the obvious suspect. But for that very reason maybe she didn’t do it. This is TV world after all. For a finale to what’s been an improving season, this episode was average. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/17 "2005-04-07T05:39:45Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I agree that in the real world, Leo would be a terrible choice for VP. A man who just had to retire from one job because of a heart attack, plus a history of alcoholism and painkiller abuse, plus a divorce. Plus he’ll now link the Santos ticket to every mistake the Bartlet administration made. > > On other issues, the speech was weak. I liked the New Hampshire ad; that one worked for me. This one didn’t. And Santos had agreed to drop out in exchange for the speech opportunity. Then he turns around and uses it to push his nomination. And Leo and the other candidates say nothing? > > Does everyone think it was CJ that leaked the shuttle? She’s the obvious suspect. But for that very reason maybe she didn’t do it. This is TV world after all. > > For a finale to what’s been an improving season, this episode was average. I have to agree. Kind of meh… would have been GREAT if Baker ended up winning it, sending everything into a tailspin. As for the strikes against Leo, don’t forget that it is the worst kept secret in the world (if it is still a secret) that Leo saw Fidel a few weeks ago. Say bye-bye to any chance of carrying Florida. Yeah, I also didn’t like how Santos manipulated his free time in front of the crowd before the next ballot and no one said anything. I would have thought Leo would have been livid that Santos was given a spot for conceeding and uses it to basically push for himself. And then is ok enough with it to be his VP? What? Santos has already shown that he won’t listen to a damned thing Leo wants. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/18 "2005-04-07T06:43:33Z")
Actually the President leaking the Shuttle news makes sense. If CJ had done it, she would have been a lot more worried about going to see the FBI. She also would have just resigned as soon as she saw how angry the president was. There’s no way she could serve somebody with that fundamental difference of opinion and whom she had deceived to such an extent. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/19 "2005-04-07T07:38:42Z")
I agree that the VP choice made no sense. BUT, I thought it was a blot on an otherwise GRIPPING episode. And I didn’t necessarily think it was 100% clearly quid pro quo that Santos got to speak because he agreed to concede, although that was definitely implied. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140/20 "2005-04-07T12:20:40Z")
> [@SiouxChief](#): > > Of course it must have been C.J. Boy I’d love to see her get thrown in jail for 10 years. Yes! Yes! 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/west-wing-4-6/298140.md?page=2)