# Westboro Baptist at it again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307 "2009-08-13T16:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Canadjun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/76d3ee/32.png) [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/61 "2009-08-15T16:26:08Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > His equally evil nutbar daughter Shirley takes over. She could take over leadership of the picketing, but she couldn’t take over as leader of their “church”. There is this little issue about woman being silent in church and being subservient to men that they also very strongly believe in. She seems to be the most famous of that crew these days next to Phred himself, but anyone know if any male is being “groomed” as a successor to Phred? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/62 "2009-08-15T16:38:26Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > No, Ted. I don’t. You’ve done your part to help exterminate the jewish religion. And you did it to spite others, to boot. Congratulations. Explanation? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/63 "2009-08-15T16:39:28Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s another good point. That’s why I wish we didn’t have all these stupid rules about speech — especially so-called “hate speech”, which is about as well defined as “obscenity” and which protects some groups while not protecting others. I don’t think we should attract bigots, but at the same time, I don’t think we should be afraid to hear them out and debate them. And ridicule/humiliate them. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/64 "2009-08-15T17:05:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Explanation? I support Messianic Jewish ministries & made some special donations after dealing with hysteria like that in a GD thread. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/65 "2009-08-15T17:07:57Z")
I feel a lot of pity for the kids, for being raised by such a nutcase … but unfortunately we have the freedom to be a nutcase if we are not harming anybody … That being said, I really wish there was some way that we could shut him the fuck up … And why can they still afford to go picketing with that judgement? ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/66 "2009-08-15T17:15:27Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > Seconded. And I wish they’d stop getting media coverage. Nothing they do is interesting. Reporting that there is a wacko fundy group that protests military funerals is maybe news. Reporting on it every single time that fundy group does anything? Not so much. There was a time that touring the nearest nut house passed for recreation. Now it’s another circus for the masses. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/67 "2009-08-15T17:35:05Z")
Ted supports Jews for Jesus. I don’t mean he likes them, I mean he donates to them. Out of spite. Puts him right there with Fred. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/68 "2009-08-15T18:17:14Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Ted supports Jews for Jesus. I don’t mean he likes them, I mean he donates to them. Out of spite. > > Puts him right there with Fred. I’m no fan of Jews for Jesus, but that’s a pretty fucking stupid comparison. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/69 "2009-08-15T20:09:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m no fan of Jews for Jesus, but that’s a pretty fucking stupid comparison. Kinda but, not really… If I donated money to an “ex-gay therapy” organization I’d be acting on the same hateful, annihilative impulse that drives Phred, I’d just be a bit toned down. The difference is one of degree, not kind. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2009, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/70 "2009-08-15T21:09:10Z")
Precisely. Further, Ted did it not out of misguided belief, but to spite someone else, to express hatred. That makes it even closer to Fred in kind. If you donate to an ex-gay ministry because you fervently believe they can help people? You’re a fool, but not evil. Do it because you want to express your intolerance of gays? That’s just nasty. I’m not trying to call Ted a loathsome person. I’m trying to express to him, in terms he understands, why what he did was wrong and cruel. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/71 "2009-08-16T00:01:26Z")
xx ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/72 "2009-08-16T00:06:54Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Ted supports Jews for Jesus. I don’t mean he likes them, I mean he donates to them. Out of spite. > > Puts him right there with Fred. For a moment there I thought you might have meant he donates to the Palistinian cause. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/73 "2009-08-16T00:42:06Z")
There was SOME spite, I will admit. But the ministries I donated to I support anyway. The whole GD discussion & the level of vitriol from the other side reminded me of how much their work is needed & deserves my support. Sorry- anyone who compares a belief of mine to Naziism has just won an extra donation from me to said belief, and if that’s spiteful, make the most of it. I also have announced reverse-boycotts on the Board. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/74 "2009-08-16T00:44:12Z")
I think folks are getting so used to the WBC that they’re going back to their roots, the early 90’s. Back then they were shocking, and kept ramping it up as each level got tame. Then they got into the funeral picketing business. But gradually they just started standing there with their signs, being quiet. They used to sing, should vulgar insults, and so on. I live in Topeka, the home of the WBC. I was on many a counter picket line, and once heard Fred tell a cop we should be arrested for disturbinb the peace. Our offense? We laughed loudly and flipped our hair at him when we were told we were “crop headed whores” The WBC women all have long hair because, according to them, short hair on women is unBiblical. Oh, and one Pentecost Sunday I was outside a church, with a little old lady going in. She had one of those four pronged canes, and was wearing a bright red skirt(it’s the festival color for Pentecost) One young Phelps man yelled at her “You’re wearing that skirt to hide the blood pouring from your rectum!” Two weeks ago, Sunday August 2, they were outside my own church, across the street, the whole crew. And they were yelling and being vulgar again, with a sign saying “Your pastor is a whore!” That’s a surprise to the dean I’ll bet, and his wife too!😛 With this Jew sign they’re going someplace new. In the early 90’s it was hard to get support against him, because I think folks thought that would mark them as gay. And they never had “Blacks are worthy of death” signs. As an earlier poster in this thread, nobody was insulted who might fight back. (Although they never did go back to Our Lady of Guadalupe Church, after the Hispanics ran them ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/75 "2009-08-16T00:52:25Z")
I’m pretty sure the Jews will fight back. The Anti-Defamation League will confront them head-one. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/76 "2009-08-16T01:10:45Z")
The spiteful bit was in response to a comment of mine that, instead of offensive, obnoxious attempts to eliminate the entire Jewish religion, fundies could do some actual good for the world and help hungry children get good, healthful breakfasts before school. Friar’s response was that he’d try to find a group dedicated to eliminating Judaism that would preach at breakfasts, and when he couldn’t do that, decided to donate again to whichever [del]God Hates Jews[/del] God Wants You to Eliminate Judaism group was at hand. > [@](#): > > The whole GD discussion & the level of vitriol from the other side reminded me of how much their work is needed & deserves my support. This is the exact thing that’s being discussed. Jews pointing out that dedicated, organized attempts to wipe Judaism from the face of the Earth are offensive just renews Friar’s determination to wipe Judaism from the face of the Earth. Those heebes are askin’ for it. The annihilation of the Jewish religion is “needed”, dontcha know? Honestly, what’s the real difference between Phelps and Friar? Both want to see Judaism erased from the face of the Earth. Both believe that they’ve got a divine calling to do it. If anything, Phelps is more honest because he at least admits that he hates Judaism while Friar hides behind this bullshit about how it’s necessary to eliminate the Jewish religion (for their own good) and how sad it is that the Jews didn’t decide long ago to just stop being Jews and to become Christians. What’s the real difference between “God hates Jews” and “God wishes that Christians would use trickery, deception and a dedicated campaigns of targeted conversion to wipe Judaism from the face of the Earth until Jews cease to exist as a religious, cultural and ethnic group.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/77 "2009-08-16T01:13:51Z")
I don’t think there’s supposed to be deception and trickery involved. Just witnessing. And that doesn’t mean harrassing either. Jesus taught that if no one would listen, then wipe the dust off your feet and move on. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/78 "2009-08-16T01:44:59Z")
Maybe ideally… but I can cite the threads where JfJ’s deliberate deceptive practices (including but not limited to attempting to appropriate the modern Jewish religion) were cast by Friar as cultural or biblical Judaism and not attempts to subvert the modern Jewish religion, which he never retracted. Or advice from JfJ that fathers should not let their daughters marry Jews because Jews are unbelievers, and yet they pretend that Judaism and Christianity are compatible. Or how JfJ describe themselves as “Jews” when trying targeting young Jews away from home for the first time, but identify themselves as “Evangelical Christians” when they try to solicit support from other Christians. Or Friar’s acts like taking a prophecy which talks about a handful of weeks and pretending that it’s really about 600+ years, and that Judaism prophesied its own end and that only nasty, tricky Rabbis have kept Jews in the dark. Or that he knows better what Judaism is actually about and his distortions on who and what the Moshiach are, are the actual accurate religious teachings due to those perfidious rabbis’ deceptions. :rolleyes: There’s a difference between Christians openly, honestly telling folks they meet that their religion is nifty and an organized campaign to eliminate Judaism entirely, specifically and deliberately. You don’t like Jackson, after all these years. Imagine how it is for Jews to have survived centuries of Christian oppression and forced conversions and then have a modern sect again target Judaism for annihilation by universal conversation while smiling and telling us that it’s really for our own good, and “necessary”. Imagine if, too, some folks didn’t just think or argue that western culture was pretty neat, but advocate the resurrection of the Indian Schools (voluntary this time, of course). Would that sit well with you? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/79 "2009-08-16T01:55:39Z")
Okay, I gotcha. You are drawing a rightful division between quasi-Christian groups like the Jews for Jesus, who deceive and harrass people, and Christians who quietly share their faith, and nothing more. (Unless asked, of course.) ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/80 "2009-08-16T02:07:46Z")
Spot on Lib. I have no problem with Christians talking to everybody they meet about Jesus, or trying to make their churches fun, inviting, spiritually uplifting places to go. I have no problem with Christians preaching on street corners by handing out pamphlets or hosting radio programs or TV shows or what have you. That’s all 100% fine with me. It’s organized campaigns to eliminate Judaism which I object to as obnoxious and, at best, insensitive of 1000+ years of history. . And it’s organized campaigns to eliminate Judaism based on deception and trickery that I feel are really shitty. And it’s those campaigns that tend to specifically target young Jewish children away from home for the first time or old Jewish senior citizens desperately longing for contact and try to trick them into converting that I feel are really, really beyond the pale. For all I care, skywrite scripture in the sky for all to read, but organized attempts to deliberately and methodically wipe Judaism out as a religion via conversion are, at best, slimy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307.md?page=5)