# Westboro Baptist at it again **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307 "2009-08-13T16:53:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/81 "2009-08-16T02:16:49Z")
I don’t see how anyone could convincingly argue a case otherwise. Jesus is not about wiping things out, but rather about building things up. There is even irony in Christians seeking to wipe out Judaism — they are wiping out the very heritage of their savior. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/82 "2009-08-16T02:30:13Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > I support Messianic Jewish ministries & made some special donations after dealing with hysteria like that in a GD thread. Trying to blame us? The big bad mean kids made you do it? > [@FriarTed](#): > > There was SOME spite, I will admit. But the ministries I donated to I support anyway. The whole GD discussion & the level of vitriol from the other side reminded me of how much their work is needed & deserves my support. > > Sorry- anyone who compares a belief of mine to Naziism has just won an extra donation from me to said belief, and if that’s spiteful, make the most of it. Again, the big bad meanies made you do it. > [@FinnAgain](#): > > … Friar’s response was that he’d try to find a group dedicated to eliminating Judaism that would preach at breakfasts, and when he couldn’t do that, decided to donate again to whichever [del]God Hates Jews[/del] God Wants You to Eliminate Judaism group was at hand. > > This is the exact thing that’s being discussed. Jews pointing out that dedicated, organized attempts to wipe Judaism from the face of the Earth are offensive just renews Friar’s determination to wipe Judaism from the face of the Earth. Those heebes are askin’ for it. > The annihilation of the Jewish religion is “needed”, dontcha know? … That sounds pretty messed up. So, it’s kind of like when a wife beater says “she made me hit her”. Here’s a novel idea, you go to your church Ted, and let the other guy go to his, you leave each other the hell alone. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/83 "2009-08-16T03:40:17Z")
And this is why I said you stand with Fred, Ted. People besides Finn, has the case been made? Steve? Lib? I don’t really have a problem with you doing it. You’re honest about it, unlike the people you support. I think it’s a wrong thing, an evil thing, but you have a right to do it. I just want to make it clear to you what you are doing is wrong, what you are doing is evil, and _why_ it is so. It’s your choice to keep doing it or not, but I want to open your eyes to how wrong it is. I want you to understand why people have a problem with it. When this started, you didn’t. Do you understand, yet? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/84 "2009-08-16T03:54:36Z")
> [@E-Sabbath](#): > > And this is why I said you stand with Fred, Ted. People besides Finn, has the case been made? Steve? Lib? My view isn’t hard to explain. I don’t care if you believe in Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, whatever. It’s really just different names for the same God, who according to the Bible simply said “I Am”. It doesn’t matter to me if you follow Jesus, Muhammed, or Buddha. You can follow the pope, Martin Luther, or someone else. I see no reason and have no desire to “eradicate” anything. You go to your church and I go to mine. Besides, any religious group that needs to use trickery and subterfuge and deceit and “infiltrators” to spread the message is lacking. Their message should stand on its own merits. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/85 "2009-08-16T04:03:05Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > You go to your church and I go to mine. Besides, any religious group that needs to use trickery and subterfuge and deceit and “infiltrators” to spread the message is lacking. Their message should stand on its own merits. You’re absolutely right. In fact, when Jesus was dressing down the Pharisees in [Matthew 23](http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%2023;&version=31;), He excoriated them for that very thing: Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/86 "2009-08-16T04:17:45Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’d donate a quarter or two to send Phelps & his clan to the Vatican with “God Hates Catholics” signs. Especially if the money raised was adequate only for one way tickets. > > And this **YogWhatever** person sure seems to have some sort of unhealthy fixation on anal rape. Oh my God, I would SO love to see Fred Phelps and his family get hacked to death by Swiss Guards with halberds. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/87 "2009-08-16T04:25:44Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Oh my God, I would SO love to see Fred Phelps and his family get hacked to death by Swiss Guards with halberds. I’ve heard those guards are highly trained, and are NOT the sort you want to pick a fight with, with or without the halberds. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/88 "2009-08-16T05:35:38Z")
I wouldn’t want to piss off a bunch of Israeli commandos either. Although I’m still hoping for the lightning bolt… but on a cloudless day. Hmm, maybe I’ll _pray_ for it. _To Phelps’s God._ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/89 "2009-08-16T11:49:55Z")
You know, I was actually hoping to see a post that might give me pause for thought. Instead, it’s the same as it ever was. And so I will remain a supporter of Jewish evangelization & Messianic Judaism, and you can remain actively opposed to it, and we will go on from there. Good day, Gentlemen! ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/90 "2009-08-16T17:43:42Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I wouldn’t want to piss off a bunch of Israeli commandos either. There are neo-Nazi groups in Israel. \* Neo-Nazi groups in Israel.\* The Israelis are way too tolerant for their own good. If Phelps marched in Tel Aviv there would probably be a throng of Jews saying that they defend his right to do so even if they disagree with him. The ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/91 "2009-08-16T22:29:20Z")
Not if they picketed soldiers’ funerals. Trust me on this - there are few things Israelis take as seriously as soldiers’ funerals. Anyone picketing one would be arrested on the spot, partially for their own safety. You mock the bereaved in this country, you sign your own death warrant. I am \*not \*kidding. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/92 "2009-08-16T22:51:20Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > And so I will remain a supporter of Jewish evangelization & Messianic Judaism, and you can remain actively opposed to it, and we will go on from there. Good day, Gentlemen! Thats what anyone would call chutzpah . ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/93 "2009-08-17T00:36:10Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > You know, I was actually hoping to see a post that might give me pause for thought. Instead, it’s the same as it ever was. > > And so I will remain a supporter of Jewish evangelization & Messianic Judaism, and you can remain actively opposed to it, and we will go on from there. Good day, Gentlemen! I’m going to try. Winning people over to Christ ought never to involve trickery or deception of any kind. Contributing to such practices is Pharisaic in its conception. Jesus will rebuke you for your support of people who use Him as a flag to mark their territory. Evangelism (spreading the gospel — “good news”) is not about making converts. Conversion happens for each person in God’s own time and way. You are wasting the seed God gave you. You are planting weeds, and casting your seed onto stone. Jesus Christ Our Lord is all about one thing and one thing only: love. We are to love even our enemies. Trickery and deception are enemies of love because they obstruct goodness. If you contribute to these people, then you will stand with them when you see Jesus face to face. And He will say, “Get away from me. I never knew you.” That is not what you want. Send your money instead to the poor. The Christian Children’s Fund and organizations like that are wonderful ways to reach out in love. Providing for a child who would otherwise suffer unspeakable hardships will do more to win his or her soul for Christ than giving a million dollars to Jews for Jesus. You are paying Pharisees, who use your money to drive fancy cars and recruit people who work for nothing to pass out fliers. You are paying for the leaders to fly all over the country, stay in the finest hotels, and eat the finest meals. You are squandering God’s gift to you by tossing it like pearls to swine. Wake the fuck up. It’s all about love, man. “Love, and do what you will.” — St. Augustine. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/94 "2009-08-17T02:47:21Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > You know, I was actually hoping to see a post that might give me pause for thought. Instead, it’s the same as it ever was. > > And so I will remain a supporter of Jewish evangelization & Messianic Judaism, and you can remain actively opposed to it, and we will go on from there. Good day, Gentlemen! I can’t argue from either a Christian or Judaic viewpoint, but I can argue from a practical one. If such groups were the only groups attempting to evangelize in the world, then your view might work. A necessary evil. But it seems to me that when there are in the world many, many groups dedicated to evangelizing Christianity, from which I am sure there are many who fall in line with your own particular form of Christianity, then choosing to back a group who are already disliked and distrusted by the very people in particular whom they are attempting to convert, then they’re pretty much already starting with a handicap. The answer, it seems to me, is not to attempt to cope with the handicap by gifting more money - because the handicap means that it’s going to have a comparitively lessened effect - but by donating money to those other organizations that don’t have that problem and in whose hands the money will be more effective. If the goal is “effective evangelization”, why would you select a group to support whose effectiveness is already compromised? The deeper the problem, the deeper the hole your money will fall into. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/95 "2009-08-17T09:35:10Z")
Amen, \*\*Lib \*\*and Amen, **RT**. While I’m a bit leery of the concept of religion being part of the free marketplace of ideas (the way I see it, all religions are basically the same, so you might as well stick with the one you were born into), your approach is far more appealing that of **Ted’s**. All we Jews really want is to be left alone to argue with each other about our faith. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/96 "2009-08-17T09:39:47Z")
… splitter!!! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/97 "2009-08-17T11:42:07Z")
I admire the attempts, Lib & RT. I will not refrain from supporting MJ groups or the idea of Jewish evangelism because I believe only through Christ does anyone have any guarantee for Eternal Life, therefore why would I want any group of people to be denied that opportunity? I would really have to hate Jews to see them as “off limits” to the Gospel. I will take a second look at JfJ to see if the charges of harrassment & deception (as I define them) hold up. I do not see the very concept of MJ as de facto deceptive & any attempt to evangelize Jews as de facto harrassment. But I will look at the charges against JfJ before defending them or contributing further to them. Give me some links with specific examples, please. Btw, I do support Christian charities to children, various Evangelistic causes, and even Muslim evangelism. FinnAgain- I was waiting for a “Life of Brian” reference! Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/98 "2009-08-17T12:47:17Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > They would save a lot of money on art supplies if they just went with “God Hates Everybody But Us.” Yeah, I’d thought of the [exactly the same thing](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Gyrate/wbcchurchsign.jpg). Hope that link is visible… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/99 "2009-08-17T12:57:39Z")
Apparently this whole debate is a mistake - God hates _juice_. According to Phred, God hates anyone who swallows the liquid that comes out of a fruit.\* \*Don’t even think it. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307/100 "2009-08-17T13:22:07Z")
Since Shirley Phelps Roper committed the sin of fornication and gave birth to a bastard son, her & her son’s chances of going to heaven are nil, according to the bible. She thinks that she’s so holy, but she can’t even spell. The truth is that she’s whory, with an “R” and not an “L” And she’s going straight to hell… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-at-it-again/506307.md?page=6)