# Westboro Baptist pickets a high school play in Michigan **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 22, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959 "2008-11-22T04:15:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/1 "2008-11-22T04:15:08Z")
Fred Phelps Westboro Baptist church traveled all the way to Michigan to protest a school play. Grosse Pointe High was running a school play “the Laramie Project” . It is a play about the gay kid 'Mathew Shepherd ,who got killed because he was gay. Westboro traveled all the way from Kansas just to protest the play which ran one night. How much money do those pricks have to go all that way to protest the only night of a high school play? Is that what baptist people donate to their church for? Is that a church at all?Yes it is on the local news. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/2 "2008-11-22T04:16:34Z")
Where do they get the money for all this stupid shit? Seriously … what the OP said. I’m baffled. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/3 "2008-11-22T05:14:41Z")
I’m from Topeka, which the WBC calls home.(Phred himself comes from Mississipi, way back) They do have a law firm, don’t know what kind of business they do. And quite a number of them live together in a sort of compound, the houses all connected by a security fence. They try to get tax breaks by claiming it’s all church related, like the house/church that Fred calls home. Maybe they pool their resources. And I’ve long suspected they get money from folks who aren’t quite as “out of the closet” as they are about going public about their bigotry. We see them all the time around Topeka. In fact they picket the church I attend at least once a month. But they’ve been backing off from real confrontations. Recently they went to Nebraska to picket at the funeral of some teens who died, and when the Freedom Riders showed up the WBC didn’t even bother to set up shop, and slunk home, leaving a trail of slime behind them. If they went to picket at a school play(which does depict Fred too) it’s probably because they felt they would encounter no organized opposition. The travel expenses are probably written off as church work. Seriously, since it’s related to their religion, they do that. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/4 "2008-11-22T05:24:40Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > Recently they went to Nebraska to picket at the funeral of some teens who died, and when the Freedom Riders showed up the WBC didn’t even bother to set up shop, and slunk home, leaving a trail of slime behind them. Sounds like the Freedom Riders arrived a little too early. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/5 "2008-11-22T13:11:53Z")
gonzomax, you don’t actually believe WBC is representative of Baptists or their churches, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/6 "2008-11-22T14:28:06Z")
Pitting the WBC is kind of like pitting Jack Chick. Who cares? These people are all world class pricks who love the attention. Ignore them and they’ll pretty much go away. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/7 "2008-11-22T14:42:29Z")
If I’m not mistaken, almost all of the adult Phelps are lawyers and they have made quite a lot of money suing people for defamation. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/8 "2008-11-22T14:46:07Z")
Anyone heard anything about the progress of the lawsuit in which they lose their homes yet? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/9 "2008-11-22T15:15:54Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > gonzomax, you don’t actually believe WBC is representative of Baptists or their churches, do you? How do I know? Actually my family has a huge baptist component. I have gone to several baptist funerals. I can not relate to them either. They strike me as pretty goofy too. Not as bad as Westboro ,but goofy. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/10 "2008-11-22T15:39:30Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Pitting the WBC is kind of like pitting Jack Chick. Who cares? These people are all world class pricks who love the attention. Ignore them and they’ll pretty much go away. I respecfully disagree that ignoring them will make them go away. They’ve been at this for nearly sixteen years, and take it from me, everything, including ignoring, has been tried. So far nothing has made them go away. Although as I said in my earlier post, they’re showing signs of getting really tired. Whether we want to or not we have to keep our eye on them because they are dangerous. They’ve physically attacked people, like the pastor of the church I used to attend. > [@E-Sabbath](#): > > Anyone heard anything about the progress of the lawsuit in which they lose their homes yet? Not sure about how that case is going, but the following link is to an article from today’s Capital\_Journal about how things are progressing with the flag desecration case in Nebraska. [http://www.cjonline.com/stories/112208/loc\_358663228.shtml](http://www.cjonline.com/stories/112208/loc_358663228.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/11 "2008-11-22T16:09:10Z")
All that way. All that trouble. Just to protest a high school play. How did they know about it? What kind of meeting did they have to decide to dedicate the time and money to a few minutes of protesting in another state? I do not understand them at all.I don’t get angry at them,just confused by the idea that they could convince themselves that they were accomplishing something. A waste of time,trouble and money. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/12 "2008-11-22T16:26:42Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > Where do they get the money for all this stupid shit? Seriously … what the OP said. I’m baffled. Probably from their congregation, who donate 10% of their income (as the Bible commands!) out of fear of winding up in hell when they die. Christianity has always been one big pyramid scheme. WBC is way further out there than most, but even your local community church on the downtown corner only exists due to greed, fearmongering, and outright scam tactics which have been _de rigeur_ for the past 2,000 years. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/13 "2008-11-22T16:33:45Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > I respecfully disagree that ignoring them will make them go away. They’ve been at this for nearly sixteen years, and take it from me, everything, including ignoring, has been tried. So far nothing has made them go away. Although as I said in my earlier post, they’re showing signs of getting really tired. > > Whether we want to or not we have to keep our eye on them because they are dangerous. They’ve physically attacked people, like the pastor of the church I used to attend. > > Not sure about how that case is going, but the following link is to an article from today’s Capital\_Journal about how things are progressing with the flag desecration case in Nebraska. > > [http://www.cjonline.com/stories/112208/loc\_358663228.shtml](http://www.cjonline.com/stories/112208/loc_358663228.shtml) Here’s a response to that article by Margie Phelps > [@margie phelps](#): > > You can always count on the brutish vulgar perverts of Topeka to come forth with a lot of hateful words against God. > > Has it never dawned on you thick-headed rebels that you are in more trouble with God than any city that ever existed? You’re just like the mutts in the cities where the prophets and Christ did their preaching; the more chances God gives you – by sending his prophets rising up early to remind you of your duty to obey him – the worse you get. > > Here’s the verse that applies: 2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished. > > You Neanderthals are sitting over there pickling in destruction-juice and too stupid to see it! You have been given so many chances by the Lord your God to repent and obey; but youâ??re unthankful, hard hearted and viciously vulgar, without any mercies whatsoever. Therefore, God is not going to be merciful to you. If youâ??d cracked a Bible just once in your worthless, useless, no-justification-for-the-oxygen-you-suck-up-every-day, tending to no one put your Pet Lusts, you would know this is the Bible standard. God is merciful to the merciful to dimwits! Not foul mouthed unthankful proud sinners. > > Let’s assume for the sake of argument that you perverts ultimately get your way – and you are able to prosecute all the Westboro Baptist Church picketers to death. That’s what you want; because you hate the words; because they condemn you in your own heart. So let’s pretend – since that’s what your lying \*\*\*\*\* false prophets always do – pretending you can get to heaven while you live like and for the devil, while you cultish critters lap up that fantastical slop like sows eating mire. > > What does that gain you beasts? GOD STILL HATES YOU. YOU’RE STILL GOING TO HELL. AMERICA IS STILL DOOMED. GOD STILL HATES ALL THE NATIONS, AND HAS PLANNED FROM ETERNITY PAST FOR EVERY NATION THAT FORGETS GOD TO BE TURNED INTO HELL. YOU STILL HAVE AN EVERLASTING DUTY TO OBEY GOD. What relief does it get you? Pick us for the answer. NONE! What you hate is Godâ??s standard. Trying to kill the messengers who are putting that standard in front of your face â?? and making you drink the cup of Godâ??s wrath â?? changes nothing. Canâ??t you read? > > So picture this: The Great and Terrible Day of Judgment, specifically the day of YOUR trial before God. (You mean imprisoners of this nation know all about trials.) You standing at the Great White Throne. (You know about thrones; you just elected queen Obama to worship her to your utter and final destruction, and propped her up on a throne.) You start putting forth all your angry ignorant words, betraying your complete lack of knowledge on anything, and your total worthlessness. You don’t know history; you don’t know culture; you don’t know how to read and write; and you SURE DON’T KNOW THE BIBLE. How embarrassing it will be for you. But God, being kind and merciful and very longsuffering, will let you yammer on and on, and spell out all your complaints against us, him, and his plainly-written revealed Word. You’ll be crying like little girls. You’ll commence sobbing because you’ll realize – as you hear the things coming out of your dark-heart-and-black-mouth that you are doomed. Then, after hearing all your lies, God will pluck you up by your scruffy neck, and DROP KICK YOUR BUTT INTO HELL. Sentence, you ask? FOR EVER!!! How stupid are you continuing down this path? > > So how about if you little girls get refocused. We’re the only BFFs you’ve ever really had, because we tell you the truth. Your proud sins are taking you to hell foolish children! Get a Bible! Read it! Obey it! That’s your only hope at this dark apostate hour in the Last of All Days. Don’t flounce your hateful backside up to the Throne of Glory with nothing to say to God but a sputtering IDK! OBEY! > > Margie Phelps > One of the kind souls at Westboro Baptist Church, spiritual Zion, where the King of Glory resides, and where the only hope for any soul can be found! No comment needed ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/14 "2008-11-22T16:42:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > How do I know? I guess you don’t. But they come up on the boards pretty frequently. They’ve been Pitted scores of times. As far as them being representative of Baptists, even the craziest of crazy homophobic fundamentalists have deemed these people too crazy and homophobic. Pat Robertson has denounced them as a bunch of wackjob homophobes. As far as how they make their money, it seems that they provoke violence and then sue. There is some speculation that they’re not really even as homophobic as they let on – they just troll for money. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/15 "2008-11-22T17:01:24Z")
According to the [Free Press](http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008811220388) this morning, they pretty well phoned it in; they only sent three people, versus a quiet counter-protest of over a hundred. And judging by the comments of local kids who saw them, they only served to solidify people against their brand of hate. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/16 "2008-11-22T17:08:25Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > If I’m not mistaken, almost all of the adult Phelps are lawyers and they have made quite a lot of money suing people for defamation. And battery! Don’t forget that they love to provoke confrontations, then sue the crap outta the poor schnook who takes the fist swing. Deserved as it may have been. And inre Marjorie’s response: That’s some authentic frontier gibberish. To which I doubt anyone could adequately respond. Wow. Just. . .wow. “The Laramie Project” is something that they will usually go outta their way to protest. They couldn’t stop the authors, who only have Phred’s character speaking the words that dribbled from his lips, from producing it initially, so they show up to protest it. I’ve seen them at high schools and community theatres, dunno if they bother showing up for more professional productions. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/17 "2008-11-22T18:28:28Z")
I _like_ the WBC in some ways, even as I am disgusted by them. At least when people see that brand of fundamentalism up close in the US, it turns a lot of even devoutly religious folks away from extremism. WBC does us the service of displaying, at home, just how idiotic and unacceptable that path of religious pickling really is. But yes, they are outrageous assholes. I’m just glad they pick doing this kind of thing over bombing abortion clinics, gay pride parades, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/18 "2008-11-23T12:08:12Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > All that way. All that trouble. Just to protest a high school play. How did they know about it? What kind of meeting did they have to decide to dedicate the time and money to a few minutes of protesting in another state? I do not understand them at all. Well, really, they probably wanted to vacation in Michigan, or to visit some relatives there or something. Because they could certainly have found a high school closer to home that is putting on this play – it’s become one of the more popular ones with high school and junior college theatre groups. Because it works well:[ul][li]it has lots of characters but a variable number of them, so you can accommodate all your potential actors (and please their taxpaying parents)[/li][li]some are very minor roles, so you can put your ‘developing’ actors in those roles[/li][li]it’s an impressionistic play, so you can get by with simple, suggested sets (cheap, easy to do!)[/li][li]it’s ‘controversial’, so you get more local publicity than if you presented _Arsenic and Old Lace_ and get points for being ‘edgy’, but not so controversial that you offend your audience, because nobody will complain about an anti-violence play (except Westboro Baptist types, of course)[/li][li]and I believe the authors are encouraging this frequent performance by charging pretty low royalties for presenting it (especially important for small, rural schools with low budgets)[/ul][/li] And a meeting to decide on this – come on! That church is run pretty much as a dictatorship by Fred – he makes all such decisions. Or maybe his one daughter now – I hear that she’s taking over the leadership role, as Fred slips into senility. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/19 "2008-11-23T17:11:58Z")
[QUOTE=Margie Phelps] You know about thrones; you just elected queen Obama to worship her to your utter and final destruction, and propped her up on a throne. [/QUOTE] Is she actually suggesting that Obama is gay? > [@](#): > > And a meeting to decide on this – come on! That church is run pretty much as a dictatorship by Fred – he makes all such decisions. Or maybe his one daughter now – I hear that she’s taking over the leadership role, as Fred slips into senility. Further into senility, you mean. > [@](#): > > As far as them being representative of Baptists, even the craziest of crazy homophobic fundamentalists have deemed these people too crazy and homophobic. Pat Robertson has denounced them as a bunch of wackjob homophobes. Didn’t Jerry Falwell make broadly similar comments about how 9/11 was America’s comeuppance for being too tolerant of homosexuality? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2008, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959/20 "2008-11-24T00:04:54Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > How do I know? Actually my family has a huge baptist component. I have gone to several baptist funerals. I can not relate to them either. They strike me as pretty goofy too. Not as bad as Westboro ,but goofy. Dude, these are people who picket and harass _funerals_. A high school play doesn’t sound so bad this time. And while I think fundies like Falwell can be assholes, he was saint compared to [these assholes](http://www.blank.org/addict/). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westboro-baptist-pickets-a-high-school-play-in-michigan/473959.md?page=2)