# Western hypocricy at its worst
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion
**Created:** [March 2, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352 "2022-03-02T14:15:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@JakeRS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JakeRS)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/1 "2022-03-02T14:15:57Z")
The war in Ukraine didn’t start a week ago, it started almost eight years ago and never ended.
Despite the fact that Russia absolutely commited aggression against Ukraine and has zero justifications for any operations of this magnitude, social justice demonstrants across the world couldn’t have cared less for the Ukrainian war for the last 8 years! Eight years during which thousands of civilians have been killed, on both sides.
Yes, on both sides, which also includes Kiev’s shelling of Donetsk, of Lugansk, of Gorlovka and other towns in the Donbass region. There is a monument called Alley of Angels in Donetsk which has over 50 names of children and babies that were victims of the war.
Did hollywood celebrities call fo the end of the war back then or did they only start a week ago?
Did western media report objectively that both sides commited crimes, shellings of urban areas, that both sides violated the Minsk agreement and so on?
Did they mass share pictures of Kristina Zhuk (23) and her several month old baby Kira from Gorlovka, who were victims of shelling and which died in an embrace, like they mass share Ukrainian victims now?
Did western politicians insist on mediating in the peace dialogue, instead of twisting arms of one of the sides with sanctions and arming the other side and thus breeding further conflict?
Did they call for the responsibility of other superpowers in their attacks on other countries, like NATO’s bombing of Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia, invasion of Panama, invasion of Grenada,etc.?
If you are against war, you are against all wars. If you care for civilian victims, you care for ethnic Russian civilians that died from Kiev’s shelling in the past 8 years as well, as much as for current ethnic Ukrainian victims that are dying from Russian shelling.
You can’t pretend 8 years didn’t happen, that 3 thousand civilians didn’t die and only turn on the TV a week ago, cry crocodile tears and blame one side on all the evils of the world.
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### Author:  [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/2 "2022-03-02T14:29:04Z")
I will admit that I am completely uninformed about the last eight years. But I have been told by those who should know the situation – that those Russians moved into and settled in Ukraine on purpose at the request of Moscow in order to stir up shit and cause conflict. I cannot prove that is correct but that is what I have been told.
It is a crying shame that people have been dying for eight years whatever their ages (and yes especially innocent children). But if I had to put a human cause on this, the way I understand the situation now, I would not place the blame on a sovereign nation that has been being occupied but rather, I would place blame on the occupying neighbor. Of course, that is just my opinion.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/3 "2022-03-02T14:33:43Z")
> [@JakeRS](#):
>
> You can’t pretend 8 years didn’t happen, that 3 thousand civilians didn’t die and only turn on the TV a week ago, cry crocodile tears and blame one side on all the evils of the world.
Who are you talking to?
And seriously, fuck "both sides"ism.
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### Author:  [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/4 "2022-03-02T14:45:49Z")
I, for one. thank you, JakeRS, for gatekeeping concern over the invasion of Ukraine. It is especially compelling given that this is far from the first time you, a member here for almost 8 years, have mentioned Kiev’s bombings. Right?
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/5 "2022-03-02T14:53:44Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#):
>
> It is a crying shame that people have been dying for eight years whatever their ages (and yes especially innocent children). But if I had to put a human cause on this, the way I understand the situation now, I would not place the blame on a sovereign nation that has been being occupied but rather, I would place blame on the occupying neighbor. Of course, that is just my opinion.
Don’t be ridiculous. Russians aren’t “occupying” that area. The Sudetenland has always historically been part of Russia.
Sorry - did I say “Sudetenland”? I meant “Donbas”.
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### Author:  [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/6 "2022-03-02T14:54:40Z")
Are you suggesting that if we were to search @JakeRS’s posting history for _Crimea_ we’d come up with nil, and if we were to search for _Ukraine_ we’d find nothing substantial?
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/7 "2022-03-02T16:02:59Z")
I’m sure it’s just the merest of coincidences that our friend Jake here is repeating Putin’s propaganda message verbatim.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/8 "2022-03-02T16:06:10Z")
Bullshit.
Quite clearly, the Ukrainian people want to, and have wanted to for over a decade, be close to and part of the European community. They want a society and government closer to Western and Northern European countries than to Russia and former Soviet societies and governments. This has been clear again and again based on the leaders they elected.
This is what is unacceptable to Putin. Regardless of the actions of NATO and the US, Ukrainians wanted to be closer to the west. That is why Putin hates Ukraine (clearly indicated by Putin’s speech minimizing or even lying about Ukrainian language, culture, and people as a whole), and that’s why he invaded.
And that is why Putin bears sole responsibility for this catastrophically immoral war.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/9 "2022-03-02T17:25:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#):
>
> And that is why Putin bears sole responsibility for this catastrophically immoral war.
Absolutely right.
But but but… Ukraine **MADE** Putin hit them because they looked at another man at the party…
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/10 "2022-03-02T17:47:58Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#):
>
> Are you suggesting that if we were to search @JakeRS’s posting history for _Crimea_ we’d come up with nil, and if we were to search for _Ukraine_ we’d find nothing substantial?
If he’s not, I will (I’d like those fifteen minutes back, if it’s at all possible. Where do I file the claim?).
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### Author:  [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/11 "2022-03-02T17:57:31Z")
The OP almost has a point. If the US and its allies had responded to Putin’s unprovoked annexation of Crimea eight years ago with the kind of sanctions and actions we’re deploying now, this invasion might never have happened.
But I’m pretty sure that’s not the point he/she/it is trying to make.
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### Author:  [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/12 "2022-03-02T18:04:39Z")
Failure to pay attention to every issue is not hypocrisy. There are a limited number of things that people can treat as salient.
Unless the people who are now decrying the Ukranian invasion were cheering on previous invasions and wars, failure to comment in the past doesn’t make them hypocrites. It just makes them mostly unaware.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/13 "2022-03-02T18:17:24Z")
> [@Akaj](#):
>
> The OP almost has a point. If the US and its allies had responded to Putin’s unprovoked annexation of Crimea eight years ago with the kind of sanctions and actions we’re deploying now, this invasion might never have happened.
>
> But I’m pretty sure that’s not the point he/she/it is trying to make.
Yes. Or if they had responded to his invasion of Georgia in 2008 with something even approaching what we’re seeing now, he might not have done the exact same thing six years later in Ukraine and escalated to the annexation of Crimea.
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### Author:  [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/14 "2022-03-02T18:39:53Z")
There are always several wars and atrocities going on around the world, a war in Yemen, ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs in China.
But dammit! Ukraine is white people!! So it is on the news and _something_ must be done.
Yeah, I got the Western Hypocrisy going on. But at least I spelled Hypocrisy correctly.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/15 "2022-03-02T18:40:52Z")
On the question of what has been happening in those eastern provinces, while it was aided and abetted by Russia, it was essentially a civil war. Failing to get involved in a civil war has nothing to do with whether the rest of the world decides to get involved in an invasion.
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### Author:  [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/16 "2022-03-02T18:43:24Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#):
>
> But dammit! Ukraine is white people!! So it is on the news and _something_ must be done.
Do we have a thread for this, by the way? Because there have been a _lot_ of news reports very much along those lines, with reporters and anchors talking about how this is different from those wars in “uncivilized” countries.
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### Author:  [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/17 "2022-03-02T18:47:43Z")
Indeed. Trevor Noah pointed that out on _The Daily Show_ the other night, with clips of several reporters saying things like “This is _Europe!_ We don’t expect these sort of wars here.”
As he pointed out, for most of history, Europe has been all about invading neighboring countries to take their land.
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### Author:  [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/18 "2022-03-02T18:50:37Z")
That is the point I was trying to make. It is a fucking tragedy what is happening in Ukraine right now, but it wouldn’t even be noticed if it were happening anywhere else with people who are not Northern Europeans.
Disclaimer: I am a white guy of Northern European decent.
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/19 "2022-03-02T18:53:19Z")
That’s not true. We would also notice if there were oil involved. Cite: Iraq/Kuwait.
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### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 2, 2022, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/western-hypocricy-at-its-worst/960352/20 "2022-03-02T20:06:56Z")
This is a good point, but I don’t think it’s one the OP was making.
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