Western vs. Japanese culture?

In My Humble Opinion
21

In my experience with China, it’s not so much that people just lie to your face. One common techniques is to say something like “In order to do this, you will need to get permission from the head of the bureau of approvals.” Then you find either he doesn’t really exist, or he can’t actually see you, or something. You’ll then realize that your project is not possible. Or else you’ll end up just waiting for things until you realize what is going on and give up.

Theoretically, everyone feels better this way- you don’t get the embarrassment of being told “no” and the person you are working with is not put in the uncomfortable position of telling you “no.” It leaves everyone free to deal with their frustrations with dignity in private, and it keeps social interactions smooth.

A misunderstood feature of this whole system is the idea of “responsibility” Taking “responsibility” in China is a major commitment. If you take “responsibility” for a project or a person or whatever, it’s a fairly irrevocable pledge to do what it takes to make it work no matter what the cost to yourself.

So a lot of this cultural stuff is a way of shifting “responsibility.” It’d be bad for everyone if you somehow gave the impression that you were going to be totally responsible for something you are not 100% behind, and you wouldn’t want to direct that responsibility to someone else, either. So you find ways to keep things indirect and shift that responsibility away from individuals.

Again, it can be maddening. But it’s not bad, it’s just different. You do eventually learn how to work within the system, and there are certain benefits to it.

22

Yesterday I remembered something which made me think of this thread. The story took place in Spain, a country which is “western” or not depending on the phase of the moon and who do you ask.

I recently took my car to a generalist garage near my house to have the wiper blades changed. They took my info, then the mechanic went to look at the car and came in looking forlorn. “Hay un problema,” he said.

Ah. “There’s a problem”. That translates to “can’t do it”. If he had said “hay una cosa” (there’s a thing), that would mean “there’s a surmountable obstacle”: we need to order the part, it’s kind of delicate and the guy who’s best at it is off would you like me to do it or would you rather come back on monday…

But “a problem”? That means no way. Turns out the wipers for that particular make and model were of a style which isn’t used any more; he didn’t have either the right parts or the right tools (so he couldn’t even order the parts and fix it another day): I had to go to a dealership’s garage. Since my car is a very common brand, the unsurmountable obstacle was actually quite easily solvable for me - but it couldn’t get solved by him.

23

It’s my understanding (though I don’t know if it’s true - I read it … somewhere), that a lot of the Japanese tendency to “talk around things” rather than being direct is rooted in the days when people lived in houses with walls made of literal paper. In such a situation, everybody in the house could hear what everybody else was saying, and that necessitated speaking in an indirect way so that if somebody was impolite enough to eavesdrop and later comment on something they heard somebody say, the speaker would be able to say, “No, I didn’t say that”. The eavesdropper may know precisely what was spoken about, but the speaker didn’t precisely say that. I mean, they said it, but they didn’t say it.

24

I think it’s more likely roots in the nobility/peasant dynamic. If you’re a peasant tied to the land, you don’t say “no, no and ***hell ***no.”

Keep in mind that most Asian societies including Japan are only 1-3 generations removed from the nobility/peasant society.

25

Oooookkkk. 遅くて悪いな。 Only 2 weeks late ^^;

Hmmm… well I’ve only been working in Japan for 6 months now, but here are some quick observations.

From my work experience, the first thing I noticed is the major difference in sick days. In the states, at least where my dad worked as a teacher, taking a sick day was not a huge deal. They had a large pool of subs to choose from, and a day here and there to keep performance up and spread disease was seen as a good thing.

In Japan… just no. You do NOT take a sick day unless you have major flu or worse. Teachers come in a little sick all the time. And heaven help you if you do get a bit more than a little sick at work… I had one rough morning and the vice principal insisted I go see the doctor and rest for the day. It was a pretty big deal and showed up on my work evaluation 5 months later.

Again on work culture, the average Japanese works longer hours, but I am not convinced they work any harder. They constantly take smoke breaks, chatting breaks, etc… Still, some teachers I know work their buns off from 7:30AM to 7PM at night for a low middle class wage… riles me up it does how while Japanese teachers are very respected socially, their pay does not seem to match. I make more as an assistant teacher than most first year main teachers… awkward cough

Other than that, I’d say “don’t rock the boat” is a pretty fair generalization to go by here. Avoid direct confrontation, rules can be broken as long as nobody talks about it or is caught, don’t publically embarrass somebody, don’t be different unless you have a damn good reason (such as being foreign…but even then I have to judge the situation).

One example of direct vs indirect here is reflected in how the host of a house party operates. In the states, at least where I am from, the host will ask each guest about drink preferences, “can I get you something?” etc etc. It’s rude to just bring something without asking. In Japan, the opposite is true. A good host will know or intuit what his or her party guest prefers. It’s rude to ask. I’ve discussed this with some Japanese teachers and they say at least that’s how it used to be, but now it’s not as big a deal. I find that’s the way with a lot of the social differences between Japan and the US. Westernization for better or for worse seems to be homogenizing things a little bit.

I dunno, the above has all been just my super amateur opinion,　is not backed by any cites, and is probably highly incorrect. Treat as fact at your own peril.

26

We’re studying this in my textbook right now. Basically, when a person from one culture learns of another culture, there is a very strong likelihood that differences will be judged in a negative way.

For example, the Japanese person usually will take turns and wait to speak like bowling. An American, on the other hand, has conversations like they’re playing ping pong, constantly hitting the ball back and forth. While the American might think the Japanese is dull or boring, the Japanese is also thinking the American is rude and impolite.

27

Isn’t ‘saving face’ just called ‘covering your ass’ here in America?

28

No. They are very different. Both may occur in the same culture.

Saving face is about appearances.

Covering your ass is about insulation from possible consequences. CYA maneuvers may make you look worse, the opposite of face.

29

It’s different.

Saving face is more than making yourself look good. It’s about guiding social interactions to keep everyone involved from being embarrassed. This sometimes ends up with you taking the blame in order to protect everyone else. For example, I once made a mistake and gave one of my Chinese students a “0” on a test that she actually did quite good on. i wasn’t quite sure what the process was to fix it, so I hesitated a moment as I thought over the options. She mistook this as me being deeply worried about the consequences and probably thought I was worried that i could get fired, so she quickly said “I must have written my name poorly, so that you could not understand it. Don’t worry about it. Next time I will do better to write clearly. This is a valuable lesson.” (Of course, I fixed the problem and we actually became quite good friends.)

It’s essential to understand that in these cultures, the worst possible outcome of any social interaction is embarrassment. So one of the main social goals is to seek out potential for anyone to become embarrassed, and then neutralize it. Everyone is doing this all the time.

30

I’ve been in business in Japan for more than 20 years, including:

Set up a new translation department in a publishing company, a grew the department to be 40% of the revenue of the company.

Worked in an import company first as manager in the import division, and then as the sales manager of one of the divisions, overseeing as staff of a dozen salesmen, techs and assistants.

Opened a branch office for an American company and grew sales by 40 times over 10 years. (Admittedly the easy 40 times, my successor would be hard pressed to continue that trend.)

Now I’m starting my own company. I know many other Westerns who also successfully run businesses, do sales, etc.

Any argument that Japanese are irrational is BS. They are rational with respect to Japanese cultural standards. Yes, they can tend to be emotional about decisions, but I’ve met plenty of Western business people who are ego driven, making million dollar decisions based on how it makes them look.

You quickly learn what means “no” and what is “yes.” If you can’t do that, you shouldn’t be in business anywhere in the world. It was hard for me to lean to accept that “chotto muzukashii” meant no, but I was young and foolish, (compared to now, when I’m old and foolish). :wink:

All societies have their quirks. In Japan, it’s the incredible level of politeness which is required. If you do even a tiny favor to someone, you suddenly are a god. Just don’t take it to heart, and don’t forget you need to be super grateful to others for the tiny favors they do for you.

Yes, you also need to avoid being too direct with people, and embarrassing them. However, you get used to it, so you don’t think much of it.

Things are much more formal here, and even the language has built in levels of formality, which level you use depends on your relative position to the listener.

While the Japanese are often reticent to say “no” directly, you usually don’t get people flat out lying and saying “yes” when they mean “no.” If it does occur, it could be that one party bullied the other to agree with them, who agreed just to end the conversation. That happens in other societies, though.

Just as an example, I’m working on a potential deal with the end customer, a manufacturer, their distributor and a dealer (which is my client). The distributor backed out, and profusely apologized to us for doing so, coming all the way over to my client to say this in person. In the States, that would more likely occur via a phone call or email.

The distributor had no problem ever clearly stating their position, although in polite terms.

For the final question, you have to understand that there is as much difference in culture between China and Japan as there is between Japan and the States.

31

Good point, and good explanation to follow.