# Westworld is coming back on HBO **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, hbomax-wb-dc\ **Created:** [May 26, 2022, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156 "2022-05-26T16:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2022, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/21 "2022-05-27T21:04:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I feel like there is another, more obvious, metaphor here, given the show’s subject matter. 🤔 Of course. It’s been a few seasons since I told my wife, “This show is the Walking Dead!” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/22 "2022-05-28T00:16:07Z")
Sure. 1/10000 of 1% of humanity. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/23 "2022-05-28T01:52:34Z")
Yet the vast majority of host experience with humans. Biased sample? Maybe maybe not. It is pretty easy to conclude that near any human given a chance to be in that position would act similarly, wealthy or not. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/24 "2022-05-28T06:14:34Z")
I’m tired of all these sci-fi shows that think they’re breaking new ground with the whole “Robotic servants rise up against their human overlords” idea. There really needs to be a show where the robots plan on overthrowing humanity, but then space aliens show up and the robots gotta team-up with the humans to fight the aliens. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/25 "2022-05-28T06:23:01Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yet the vast majority of host experience with humans. They say most guests choose the white hat and have one trip. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/26 "2022-05-28T06:31:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Sure. 1/10000 of 1% of humanity. Not of the humans they’d ever met while in the park. More like 50%, based on what we’ve seen. And once they leave the park, it’s not exactly _much_ better. Still on Team Robot, here, same as [the last time](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565) we had this convo. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/27 "2022-05-28T10:23:37Z")
You know what I hated the most about Season 3? The Aaron Paul character. For the first half of the season, he was portrayed as just an ordinary guy, who had been written off by the system and by society, who found himself in the wrong place atthe wrong time and, against all expectations and computer algorithms, actually decides to risk his life to help a woman in need. He was humanity’s redemption, proof that unlike everything we’ve seen in the show so far, human beings were capable of empathy and compassion. …and then he turned out to be a JAFCO - Just Another Fucking Chosen One. He wasn’t ordinary, he was a very special snowflake, a one-in-a-million outlier of human free will, with suppressed memories and all, and everyone other than him knew this and factored him into their machinations. Worse, it proved that Samaritan II was right - that it _can_ predict human behavior, and that free will doesn’t exist. So why fight it? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/28 "2022-05-28T14:39:30Z")
I may not be remembering perfectly well but white hat or not most guests often did not represent humanity admirably. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/29 "2022-05-28T15:09:26Z")
I vaguely remember someone here pointing out in a previous thread/topic about the show that you wouldn’t think much of people if you judged them by how they behaved in a game like Grand Theft Auto. But we accept antisocial behavior there because we know that the non-player characters are fake and have no real intelligence or feelings, so it’s all just pretend. Presumably in the Westworld universe, those who visit the park have the same understanding of the robots. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/30 "2022-05-28T15:32:49Z")
It nevertheless does say something about us that behaving in that antisocial way is the desired fantasy. And from the host POV claims that “I didn’t _know_ that you actually had feelings intelligence sentience …” ring pretty hollow. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/31 "2022-05-28T17:25:12Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Presumably in the Westworld universe, those who visit the park have the same understanding of the robots. Exactly. It is the same problem with Sid in _Toy Story_. You can’t consider someone to be “bad” if they are just playing creatively with toys, and have no clue that the toys are conscious beings. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/32 "2022-05-28T18:11:23Z")
If a guest comes across a bunch of hosts playing bandits attacking hosts playing homesteaders, kills the bandits, tips his hat to the grateful farmers, and rides off into the sunset… is he a murderer? …I mean, he did kill some hosts. …but they were attacking innocent people. …but none of the hosts had a choice - they were just following their programming. And tomorrow, the homesteaders could be the bandits and the bandits could be the homesteaders. …but if they were just following their programming, then they weren’t sentient beings, and there’s nothing wrong with killing them. It’s complicated. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/33 "2022-05-28T20:02:14Z")
Well, they were all of the 1%. But early on they show him choosing white hat a rescuing Dolores, and apparently that is pretty normal. > [@Alessan](#): > > If a guest comes across a bunch of hosts playing bandits attacking hosts playing homesteaders, kills the bandits, tips his hat to the grateful farmers, and rides off into the sunset… is he a murderer? Yeah, he is playing the white hat role. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/34 "2022-05-29T04:14:00Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If a guest comes across a bunch of hosts playing bandits attacking hosts playing homesteaders, kills the bandits, tips his hat to the grateful farmers, and rides off into the sunset… is he a murderer? > …I mean, he did kill some hosts. > …but they were attacking innocent people. > …but none of the hosts had a choice - they were just following their programming. And tomorrow, the homesteaders could be the bandits and the bandits could be the homesteaders. > …but if they were just following their programming, then they weren’t sentient beings, and there’s nothing wrong with killing them. > It’s complicated. It’s also kind of weird. They discuss in Season 1 how they don’t want the hosts to be too realistic because they don’t want people thinking they actually killed someone or their husband is actually having sex with a prostitute. But OTOH, are you really going to pay $40k a day to fuck very realistic sex dolls? You could have sex with a human prostitute for a fraction of that, ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/35 "2022-05-29T14:03:14Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Presumably in the Westworld universe, those who visit the park have the same understanding of the robots. Like I said in the Season 3 thread, if they retain that impression after interacting with hosts for more than 5 minutes, then _they’re_ broken. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/36 "2022-05-29T15:05:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like I said in the Season 3 thread, if they retain that impression after interacting with hosts for more than 5 minutes, then _they’re_ broken. So the simulated voice that Caleb was talking to on the phone at the start of the season was also sentient? It sounded real to me. I think the people in this future world are used to non-sentient virtual intelligences perfectly imitating human behavior. It’s a normal part of life. As far as they could tell, the only innovation Delos made was the in the peripherals. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2022, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/37 "2022-05-29T15:41:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > …but if they were just following their programming, then they weren’t sentient beings, and there’s nothing wrong with killing them. So in the human world outside of the park, humans were also, without being aware of it, just following their programming. Therefore not sentient beings and nothing wrong with killing them? Or it is wrong to kill them because they were not responsible, had no choice? Personally I’m not in favor of killing creatures that I believe are not sentient just for fun. Magnifying glass on ants? Disturbing even though I do not believe an ant is sentient. No problem killing a whole colony to keep ants from invading my cereal boxes, but not just as amusement. I appreciate that playing the evil villain character can be fun. Maybe more fun than the hero part. And I see that a host who sees that, who sees the fun we humans have causing pain to others, even if the humans did not realize the pain was real, would not think well of humanity. Hell I look at the world and am not so impressed. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/38 "2022-05-30T11:42:53Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > So the simulated voice that Caleb was talking to on the phone at the start of the season was also sentient? I don’t know if that machine was sentient either way. I’d have to see its reactions to being unplugged or similar. > [@Alessan](#): > > It sounded real to me. I’m not just talking about “sounds”, I’m talking about “behaves” - hosts _behave_ indistinguishably from humans. > [@Alessan](#): > > I think the people in this future world are used to non-sentient virtual intelligences perfectly imitating human behavior. It’s a normal part of life. I disagree as to the “non-sentient” part, that’s circular reasoning of some sort. And in any case, IMO If they consistently perfectly imitate humans, they’re sentient. And it being normal doesn’t make it right, any more than a Southern slaveholder could argue that they be absolved from blame for recognizing the humanity of _their_ slaves because it was “a normal part of life”. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/39 "2022-05-30T12:08:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And in any case, IMO If they consistently perfectly imitate humans, they’re sentient. That’s where we disagree. I’ve seen some bots online that are capable of conducting a very convincing conversation, at least for a while; think at where they’ll be 50 years from now. Human beings are very, very good at building systems to fool other human beings. I can easily imagine us developing a piece of software that acts exactly like a person, despite being nothing more than a complex flowchart with a random number generator. That’s not to say that computers won’t become self-aware some day, or even that, like on the show, sentience will be an unexpected, emergent property. It’s perfectly possible, and a fascinating possibility. I’m just saying that for a machine designed to act like a human, acting like a human isn’t sufficient evidence of this occurring. I mean, what about Siri? She sounds sentient to me; if I were a time traveler from the 19th Century, I’d definitely think that an iPhone was a person. The hosts, at least as designed, were nothing more than improved, ambulatory iPhones. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156/40 "2022-05-30T12:09:31Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > nothing more than a complex flowchart with a random number generator. That’s _no_ different than a person. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-is-coming-back-on-hbo/965156.md?page=3)