# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/422 "2016-11-02T18:49:43Z")
Could be, or it could be a different place, or an earlier arrivals platform that was made obsolete by the new one at which William and Logan arrived. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/423 "2016-11-02T20:43:20Z")
The platform that William and Logan arrived on had a train platform with trains/tracks on both sides of an escalator running parallel to the train tracks. The storage area with the escalator had an escalator up from the platform (at an off-axis angle) and another one down through the floor, and a large wire globe with “Delos” spelled out around it. None of this was anywhere to be seen in William and Logan’s arrival. Speaking of their arrival > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > He never said it was 30 years ago. He said it was just before the park opened, with no mention of when it opened. > > I’m not sure if William is the MIB or not, but it’s clear they are setting up for some sort of twist. There’s too much hidden information for there to not be one: > > 1. William and Logan have only interacted with hosts. We have yet to see them interact with any other known human characters.\* > 2. They have been purposefully vague on Dolores story line and when things are happening, and what is really happening. > 3. We don’t know MIB’s name > 4. We don’t know what Arnold looks like > 5. Lawrence showed up immediately after being killed by MIB. And the way his reveal was shot was meant to be a surprise. 1. the older logo (we see in the clearly “past” scene with the young Ford in the lab when they’re building the early hosts) - noted above by **Elendil’s Heir** 2. Maeve - When Logan and Teddy arrive, Clementine is out front of the saloon trying to pull in guests. We’ve had previously seen this to be Maeve’s job. When Maeve is recalled (which, if the theory holds up is in the later time period), the security guy says to have Clementine do her job because she used to do it before. During the William/Logan scenes in the town, we never see Maeve and Clementine seems to be in charge. I think the order of the scenes leaves it a touch ambiguous as to whether that’s because Maeve was recalled at that time, but it also could be because it’s back when Clementine was in that role. > [@](#): > > \*As far as I can tell the only connecting is the same security guy authorized MIB’s explosion and remarked on Dolores being off loop. So if these aren’t happening at the same time means he’s actually a host, which kinda fits in with what we’ve seen about him. Yeah, I don’t know what to make of that guy…unless they just joke around like that a lot, there are a lot of little allusions to him being a host. Particularly when he’s talking to Elsie about weapons privileges and she says things like “but they allow _you_ to have one” or “they let you do that?” When she asked him if he’s Galli-fuckin’-leo when he recognized Orion, he said “maybe it’s part of my backstory.” They’re probably just joking with each other, but… It was pretty clear they have some hosts outside of the “game” part of the park, and that those are fairly self-aware of their artificiality. I’m thinking of the welcome hosts that do the introductions in the room at the beginning. It might make sense in some ways to have the security guy also be a special kind of android. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/424 "2016-11-02T21:39:23Z")
Alright, I’m now at 85% sure that the William storyline is happening at a different time, but I’m not convinced he’s the MIB yet. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/425 "2016-11-02T21:53:12Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > \*As far as I can tell the only connecting is the same security guy authorized MIB’s explosion and remarked on Dolores being off loop. So if these aren’t happening at the same time means he’s actually a host, which kinda fits in with what we’ve seen about him. But Dolores is said to be the oldest host in the park, so she could be in the “30 year ago William/Logan” scenes and still be around for the “modern day security guy” scenes. But then Lawrence is also in the William/Logan scenes and the MIB scenes, maybe Dolores is still just a little older than Lawrence? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/426 "2016-11-02T22:16:24Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > But Dolores is said to be the oldest host in the park, so she could be in the “30 year ago William/Logan” scenes and still be around for the “modern day security guy” scenes. But then Lawrence is also in the William/Logan scenes and the MIB scenes, maybe Dolores is still just a little older than Lawrence? I’m referring to the scene where they specifically mention Dolores being off loop, followed by another host trying to take her back home until William intervened. That seems to be the only thing tying William to a non-host character we know to be in the present. So either A) William’s not in the past B) The security guy is a host C) The scene was a misdirect and not actually referring to Dolores being with William. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/427 "2016-11-02T22:25:57Z")
Ah, I see. Good point. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/428 "2016-11-02T23:57:55Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > …(2) The conversation between the two lab techs, on with a bird, contained a weird reference to something like “you were meant for this, from the embryo”. Any chance that all of those lab techs are also robots? I would assume that what we’ve seen so far indicates that the lab techs are robots. We’ve already seen workers (non “hosts”) in the fields who are robots; the job of a lab tech, repairing hosts, is fairly repetitive. It’s surely more cost-effective to give that job to robots than to humans. No pension plan! It’s perfectly possible to blackmail the type of robots we see in this show (who plainly have a certain amount of reasoning ability and volition). So that plot development wouldn’t preclude the tech from being a robot. Surely it’s an obvious interpretation that the scene at the end of the latest episode in which Maeve wakes up on her own and addresses the tech, means that the “virus” currently in Maeve is designed like biological viruses are–to make their hosts (ha!) behave in such a way that the virus will be spread to new hosts. Maeve repeatedly gets injured as a part of the way the virus is designed; at some point, the virus-designer knew, she’d be alone with a tech-robot, as we saw in the scene. When the conditions are right, she is awakened and then can pass along the virus by uttering the special sequence of words (‘violent delights…’). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/429 "2016-11-03T00:18:41Z")
> [@troub](#): > > The platform that William and Logan arrived on had a train platform with trains/tracks on both sides of an escalator running parallel to the train tracks. The storage area with the escalator had an escalator up from the platform (at an off-axis angle) and another one down through the floor, and a large wire globe with “Delos” spelled out around it. None of this was anywhere to be seen in William and Logan’s arrival. I’ll have to review but I’m sure you’re right and I’m mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/430 "2016-11-03T00:23:16Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Your Freudian slip is showing. 🙂 Ahahaaha. God I couldn’t have done that if I tried. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/431 "2016-11-03T03:59:13Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > In the previews for the rest of the season, wasn’t that Logan in the lab, hooked up to the programming computer? A friend I was watching with thought the same thing, but the preview showed Hector. Hector and Logan have similar builds and facial hair, I can understand getting them confused in the quick shot in the preview. > [@Gyrate](#): > > - The story on what happened to Arnold seems to be evolving. He “died” - but do we really believe that he killed himself? When Ford talks about the MiB helping him out 30 years earlier it wasn’t clear to me whether this was about saving the part from whatever Arnold had done or about doing something about Arnold himself. > > - Somehow I’d missed earlier that Ford’s first name was Robert. Heh. Because of those two facts I’m betting that Ford killed Arnold and made it look like a suicide. And possibly that Arnold had already copied his own consciousness and then Ford used that to make Bernard. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/432 "2016-11-03T04:31:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > …I’m betting that Ford killed Arnold and made it look like a suicide. And possibly that Arnold had already copied his own consciousness and then Ford used that to make Bernard. Ooo, I like it! Ford could’ve been rather maliciously toying with Bernard when he told him about Arnold, if that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/433 "2016-11-03T08:17:32Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’ll have to review but I’m sure you’re right and I’m mistaken. …a side by side screenshot is here: > I’ve just watched the two scenes again. I think the sets were re-dressed between scenes (obviously to save costs), but its that sort of thing that gives “conspiracy theorists” like me life! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/434 "2016-11-03T09:50:56Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Don’t forget, however, that this is the same girl who gave a big ole’ lezzie kiss on Meave’s assistant in the first episode. > > So pot calling the kettle a big black here on her part She’s not blackmailing the tech because he offended her sense of morality. She’s doing it so she can get access to the host before they destroy it. > [@Sherrerd](#): > > I would assume that what we’ve seen so far indicates that the lab techs are robots. We’ve already seen workers (non “hosts”) in the fields who are robots; the job of a lab tech, repairing hosts, is fairly repetitive. It’s surely more cost-effective to give that job to robots than to humans. No pension plan! I’m sure they aren’t. Otherwise they wouldn’t be going “off script” doing things like banging offline hosts, dabbling in programming birds or engaging in petty bickering. They wouldn’t need personalities to perform mindless maintenance. The only self-aware host “employee” was the girl who processed William. The whole point of the show is that the hosts are only now reaching a level of self-awareness that they can begin to show some level of self-determination. There have been some “fake-outs” like the boy who met Ford or Teddy, but in the end, all the hosts act a bit “off” compared to the guests. It wouldn’t make sense at this point to have hosts so integrated with the staff that we don’t know they are hosts. Also, there’s no “30 year time difference”. We’ve seen flashbacks of “young Ford” from 30 years ago. Old Ford and MiB have interacted. Also MiB told Teddy how the hosts used to be mechanical, not bioengineered. I’m pretty sure Recently Self Aware Delores is taking place in the present. William and Prince Caspian obviously work at a corporation that has strong financial interests in Westworld/Delos and they aren’t speaking as if it’s some new startup. The producers specifically mentioned several nods to the 1970s Michael Crichton film. The show is interesting enough without creating stupid M Night Shamalan twists. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/435 "2016-11-03T14:13:43Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …a side by side screenshot is here: > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/MessyPandas/status/785853972397625345/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) > > I’ve just watched the two scenes again. I think the sets were re-dressed between scenes (obviously to save costs), but its that sort of thing that gives “conspiracy theorists” like me life! 😃 Those two places do not look anything at all alike. The actual set is an old mall. Maybe the “new” stair/escalator set is somewhere else in the same mall, but the one we see in the cold storage area is clearly a completely different place, more than just re-dressed. In the new one the stair construction is wide enough for two double-wide staircases on either side of two escalators (up and down). The old area is just two sets of stairs (or an up and down escalator) and the angle at which it approaches the landing(s), at the top especially, where you see that 30-degree or so angle that the top floor breaks just to the right of the stairs…the new one is completely straight perpendicular to the stairways at the top. I just don’t see it, these two places literally have nothing in common but that there’s a stairway in both, and even then they’re sooooo different from each other. The mall: [http://blogs.dailybreeze.com/history/files/import/46905-hawthorneinsideempty.jpg](http://blogs.dailybreeze.com/history/files/import/46905-hawthorneinsideempty.jpg) Another: [Abandoned Mall in Hawthorne, CA. - Imgur](http://i.imgur.com/VtetwAI.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/436 "2016-11-03T14:26:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The show is interesting enough without creating stupid M Night Shamalan twists. Regardless of whether the dual timeline theory is true, you have to agree they’re building to some sort of twist. There’s no point in not revealing the MIB’s name unless it’s going to be a surprise. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/437 "2016-11-03T15:15:20Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Regardless of whether the dual timeline theory is true, you have to agree they’re building to some sort of twist. There’s no point in not revealing the MIB’s name unless it’s going to be a surprise. Fair enough. I just hope the show doesn’t become another “JJ Abrams mystery box” full of all sorts of random shit hinting at twists and hidden plots, most of which end up as red herrings. I mean we already have the following mysteries: Ford’s secret “Wyatt” storyline Deloris’s voyage of self-discovery Bernard’s work with Deloris The MiB’s background and motivations Meave’s voyage of self-discovery The whole “Andrew” storyline What’s actually going on with Corporate How the Hat Step Brothers fit in with Corporate Why did someone put a laser sat link in a host? Why are the hosts malfunctioning / becoming self-aware? What is The Maze? What’s the Real World like? Where is Westworld? And just all the general backstory stuff with all the characters who we’ve been introduced to. Sure some of these might have simple, mundane answers. But there is a lot of stuff to cover. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/438 "2016-11-03T15:19:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > …The only self-aware host “employee” was the girl who processed William… That we _know_ of. > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > Regardless of whether the dual timeline theory is true, you have to agree they’re building to some sort of twist. There’s no point in not revealing the MIB’s name unless it’s going to be a surprise. I suspect you’re right. I still wonder if Dolores’s as-yet-unseen mom, murdered/raped nightly at the Abernathy farmhouse, is going to be significant. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/439 "2016-11-03T18:26:11Z")
I’m not sure it was firmly established that the woman who greeted William is human or not. She was rather coy on that point. Of course, the entire series is rather coy on a _lot_ of points, so no matter. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/440 "2016-11-03T18:39:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I’m not sure it was firmly established that the woman who greeted William is human or not. She was rather coy on that point. > > Of course, the entire series is rather coy on a _lot_ of points, so no matter. I saw where she has married and divorced Elon Musk twice. So she’s got that going for her. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2016, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/441 "2016-11-03T18:45:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > > > Regardless of whether the dual timeline theory is true, you have to agree they’re building to some sort of twist. There’s no point in not revealing the MIB’s name unless it’s going to be a surprise. > > I suspect you’re right. I still wonder if Dolores’s as-yet-unseen mom, murdered/raped nightly at the Abernathy farmhouse, is going to be significant. Crazy idea; Dolores is her own mother. In other words, she was the wife of the farmer in an earlier narrative before being raped and murdered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=23)