# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/482 "2016-11-07T23:03:15Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > A super-intelligent sarcastic robot prostitute. What a great idea. I think this series owes more to Heinlein than Crichton. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2016, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/483 "2016-11-07T23:40:01Z")
Ford having a copy of his family in host form as a gift from Arnold was so sad. Especially Ford saying how he made his father more realistic. I noticed the Yul Brynner bot, and I also thought the way that the young Ford host opened his face was a reference to the movie, even if it wasn’t done exactly the same way. > [@Skammer](#): > > Also, did Teddy’s flashback reveal that _he_ was the one who shot up the town in his backstory? I was confused by that, it seemed in earlier episodes that Teddy came upon the massacre and was horrified, but the very quick flashback in this episode seemed like Teddy was helping Wyatt with it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/484 "2016-11-08T00:16:57Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Ford seemed surprised that the “Young Robert” robot said Arnold told him to kill the dog. Even though Ford asked Dolores if she remembered the man he used to be - Arnold. So Ford used to be Arnold, but he’s not Arnold now? I don’t remember that conversation between Ford and Dolores. Which episode was it in? Because we’ve been told that Ford and Arnold are different people, and in fact we’ve seen photos of the them together. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/485 "2016-11-08T00:37:38Z")
> [@Duke\_of\_Rat](#): > > Ford seemed surprised that the “Young Robert” robot said Arnold told him to kill the dog. Even though Ford asked Dolores if she remembered the man he used to be - Arnold. So Ford used to be Arnold, but he’s not Arnold now? > . [I think you’re misremembering:](http://www.thisisinsider.com/who-is-arnold-westworld-2016-10) > [@](#): > > We know Dolores was created by Arnold, and that she was speaking with him the day Arnold died. In episode five, Ford has a conversation with Dolores about the past. > > “Do you remember the man I used to be?” Ford asked. > > Dolores replies that she doesn’t, and apologizes for being forgetful. > > “Hardly your fault,” Ford said. “But I’m sure you remember him. Arnold. The person who created you.” But looking for that conversation led me to something else I don’t think anyone else has talked about. There was a picture that Ford showed in the earlier episode and it sounded like he was saying the other guy in the picture was Arnold. [Here’s the picture of young Ford](http://static1.thisisinsider.com/image/5810a4283a965a20008b468e-983/photo%20of%20arnold%20and%20dr.%20ford%20westworld.png). But the older guy in the cottage looks a lot like the guy in the picture, and seems to be wearing the exact same clothes. [I took a screenshot of the episode](http://imgur.com/a/F5fyy). So either there are two different actors who look pretty similar and were put in similar clothes, or Arnold made a host copy of himself for Ford’s cottage, or that picture we saw earlier was Ford and either his dad or his host dad and we still haven’t seen Arnold. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/486 "2016-11-08T02:06:16Z")
“She’s outsmarted us! What should we do?” “Uh… make her smarter?” “Okay.” ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_Prize](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@Sir\_Prize](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_Prize)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/487 "2016-11-08T02:15:09Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I saw that, but didn’t make the connection until you mentioned it. > > Interesting episode, wheels within wheels within wheels. It’ll be interesting to see what Maeve makes of the situation, with her parameters reset. I am no quite sure why the techs are cooperating with Maeve. Also, she implied that they were making money pimping hosts? To who? No way would anyone with the training to operate on hosts be stupid enough to make a supersmart host with less loyalty. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/488 "2016-11-08T02:52:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > “She’s outsmarted us! What should we do?” > > “Uh… make her smarter?” > > “Okay.” Yes. I do not get this. It was not sold well. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/489 "2016-11-08T03:31:06Z")
They didn’t quite sell it for me either. On the other hand, it was a sexy, smart and naked chick bossing around nerds who are very low on the totem poll ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/490 "2016-11-08T03:38:40Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > I am no quite sure why the techs are cooperating with Maeve. Nervous asian tech seems slightly obsessed with her and more than a little suggestible regarding the androids generally. Remember he was the same one Ford chastised for covering up the male host he was working on. He seems to anthropomorphize much more than is typical among the tech workers. Douchebag white tech is scared of her and obviously doesn’t have much control over his partner. > [@](#): > > Also, she implied that they were making money pimping hosts? To who? The implication is other techs/workers that don’t have the skills to clean the memory files after screwing a host. Remember the other guy that got caught by Elsie? She confirmed that even in non-responsive mode they record anything. But Maeve teased out ( sort of obliquely ) that _these_ techs ( at least douchebag tech ) _do_ know how to erase those records - which means that they can possibly cover the tracks on the modifications they are making. > [@](#): > > No way would anyone with the training to operate on hosts be stupid enough to make a supersmart host with less loyalty. Both these guys seem a little lacking in the old wisdom stat. But I do agree it is a mild plot flaw - it should have been written tighter. It _does_ seem like a very, very poorly thought-out idea the way they showed it :p. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/491 "2016-11-08T03:59:23Z")
They needed a third tech so they could say to him: “Here, hold our beers while we try this.” ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/492 "2016-11-08T04:27:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > But looking for that conversation led me to something else I don’t think anyone else has talked about. There was a picture that Ford showed in the earlier episode and it sounded like he was saying the other guy in the picture was Arnold. [Here’s the picture of young Ford](http://static1.thisisinsider.com/image/5810a4283a965a20008b468e-983/photo%20of%20arnold%20and%20dr.%20ford%20westworld.png). But the older guy in the cottage looks a lot like the guy in the picture, and seems to be wearing the exact same clothes. [I took a screenshot of the episode](http://imgur.com/a/F5fyy). > > So either there are two different actors who look pretty similar and were put in similar clothes, or Arnold made a host copy of himself for Ford’s cottage, or that picture we saw earlier was Ford and either his dad or his host dad and we still haven’t seen Arnold. Does anyone have an opinion on my theory? Or am I being racist against old white guys and thinking they all look alike? If I’m not crazy and they are the same, I’m not sure what it would mean. I’m still guessing that Ford killed Arnold, and Bernard is actually a host with Arnold’s consciousness. The stuff about Arnold making young host Ford kill the dog threw me, but if someone is sabotaging things and using the bicameral mind system to operate old hosts, then it would make sense that the voice is either automatically Arnold or they know to say that it’s Arnold talking. Although I have no idea who it could be doing things, or why. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/493 "2016-11-08T05:01:39Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Does anyone have an opinion on my theory? Or am I being racist against old white guys and thinking they all look alike? I noted the similarity at the time, and your pics show that Arnold and Ford’s dadbot have similar tastes in cable-knit sleeveless cardigans. It _could_ be meaningful, but only time will tell. ETA: I think you’re probably right that there is a connection. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/494 "2016-11-08T13:39:09Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > it was a sexy, smart and naked chick bossing around nerds who are very low on the totem poll This explains a lot about how the world really works, I think. Westworld, and our world. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/495 "2016-11-08T13:44:33Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > > > Does anyone have an opinion on my theory? Or am I being racist against old white guys and thinking they all look alike? > > I noted the similarity at the time, and your pics show that Arnold and Ford’s dadbot have similar tastes in cable-knit sleeveless cardigans. It _could_ be meaningful, but only time will tell. > > ETA: I think you’re probably right that there is a connection. There’s obviously _some_ big secret (perhaps more than one) yet to be revealed. What I’m thinking now is that even though Arnold died earlier, he uploaded his consciousness to the Westworld computers and/or the brains of the hosts. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/496 "2016-11-08T13:46:04Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > This explains a lot about how the world really works, I think. Westworld, and our world. The Asian-American lab guy was the one working on the bird, right? She could have been all seductive - and as a naked, beautiful, charming woman-bot, it would’ve been right up her alley - and tempted him to experiment with her settings and see what she could do. “You know you want to figure me out and make me better.” And it would’ve fit his own aspirations for himself. The whole bird scene would’ve made even more sense: Chekhov’s Bird! \*That \*I would’ve bought. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/497 "2016-11-08T14:24:42Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > She could have been all seductive - and as a naked, beautiful, charming woman-bot, it would’ve been right up her alley - and tempted him to experiment with her settings and see what she could do. “You know you want to figure me out and make me better.” And it would’ve fit his own aspirations for himself. The whole bird scene would’ve made even more sense: Chekhov’s Bird! Perfect! I going to choose to believe that this was the unconscious thought process (I know that’s a contradictory phrase) that the Asian guy was going through. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/498 "2016-11-08T15:30:44Z")
I’m okay with “socially-awkward nerd in menial job does whatever the hot naked sexbot wants him to because did I mention the ‘hot naked sexbot’ part?” as a reason. This show already had me thinking about a quote from _Hogfather_ with regard to Westworld teasing out the worst - and, more rarely, the best - in humanity: “Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.” But now I’m thinking a different quote may apply here: “Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.” And I’m now starting to wonder if Ford himself is real. If Arnold made the rest of his family, why not… ---
**Author:** ![oft\_wears\_hats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7993a0/32.png) [@oft\_wears\_hats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/oft_wears_hats)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/499 "2016-11-08T15:52:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m okay with “socially-awkward nerd in menial job does whatever the hot naked sexbot wants him to because did I mention the ‘hot naked sexbot’ part?” as a reason. > > This show already had me thinking about a quote from _Hogfather_ with regard to Westworld teasing out the worst - and, more rarely, the best - in humanity: “Humans need fantasy to be human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.” But now I’m thinking a different quote may apply here: “Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time.” > > And I’m now starting to wonder if Ford himself is real. If Arnold made the rest of his family, why not… Interesting idea. Ford did ask Dolores if she remembered the man he used to be. That could be a reference to him running a different program in the past. Just like how her father used to be a silver-tongued cult leader. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/500 "2016-11-08T16:25:14Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Nervous asian tech seems slightly obsessed with her and more than a little suggestible regarding the androids generally. Remember he was the same one Ford chastised for covering up the male host he was working on. He seems to anthropomorphize much more than is typical among the tech workers. I’m pretty sure the guy with the sheet was a different Asian guy, sorry. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > Does anyone have an opinion on my theory? Or am I being racist against old white guys and thinking they all look alike? I’m pretty sure they’re the same guy, too. I remember clearer shots of Papa Ford’s face than your screenshot, though. I think he’s definitely the guy in the picture. So let’s unpack that. Ford told (or strongly implied to, don’t remember exactly) Bernard that the guy in the picture was Arnold. So something here is a lie; in any case Ford is lying to Bernard about who Arnold was/is and what he looked like. In my opinion, since the photo is just two guys without context, it seems like the (more) truthful version is that the family _is_ a re-creation of Ford’s family, so the guy is his father, and it is Ford and his father-bot in the photo; he was lying to Bernard about what Arnold looked like. Other possibilities are the untracked hosts are really just a handful of hosts selected (for reasons) and just programmed to hang out and act like a family, and Ford was lying to Bernard _this_ time, but that makes less sense in my opinion. This discovery creates a precedent for attempts to recreate actual people as hosts. Multiple references this episode to Bernard having “been here forever.” Either intentional red herrings, or increases the possibility in my mind that Arnold = Bernard. Of course maybe Ford is actually Arnold. Or a host. Or both. Lying about what Arnold looks like would support that, too, as well as few other lines and references throughout the season, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2016, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/501 "2016-11-08T16:27:00Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > [I think you’re misremembering:](http://www.thisisinsider.com/who-is-arnold-westworld-2016-10) That conversation was worded where it sounded to me like Ford was saying he used to be Arnold > [@](#): > > “Do you remember the man I used to be?” Ford asked. Is he not implying he used to be somebody else? > [@](#): > > Dolores replies that she doesn’t, and apologizes for being forgetful. > > “Hardly your fault,” Ford said. "But I’m sure you remember him. Arnold. The person who created you. I’m sure you remember him, with the “him” being the man Ford used to be. Then Arnold, referring to “him” again. Like “the man Ford used to be”, “him” and “Arnold” all being the same person. Maybe it makes no sense, but the way the conversation is worded is a little ambiguous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=26)