# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/722 "2016-11-22T16:09:08Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > … if I recall correctly Maeve was at the saloon when William arrived at the park and he refuse their services and came outside and met Dolores. Hmmm. I might have to re-watch E1 (or E2) to see if that is true. If so, you are right that it makes the William = MiB theory more than a little suspect. I suppose someone could say that Maeve was first a madam when she met William, then a homesteader where the MiB kills her, then back to a madam. But that is even more convoluted. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/723 "2016-11-22T16:29:25Z")
Okay, I pulled up the episode. The train with William and Logan drops them off in town. They walk down the street. They pass the brothel and Clementine is on the porch. She asks them if they see anything they like, and Logan says “a couple of things, but I’m gonna make you beg for it” and they keep walking. William stops to help the drunk in the street and Logan berates him. They see Dolores headed for her horse. Dolores sees herself in the window and is thoughtful, then she is back being interviewed by Bernard in what looks like a basement room somewhere and he tells her not to mention what they’ve been talking about. THEN, we get the player piano (i.e., a new day) and go back to the brothel with Maeve and Clementine… but we don’t see William & Logan. ETA: Then she talks to Teddy at the bar, then we cut to the Control Room where they say Maeve is on probation and her performance has continued to decline. So they order her recalled and put Clementine back in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/724 "2016-11-22T16:37:38Z")
There’s a later scene with William and Logan at the brothel - Logan is with three hosts in the next room while William is trying to clean the blood off his hat (from when Logan stabbed the old guy at the restaurant). Clementine comes in and talks to William, but again, we don’t see Maeve. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/725 "2016-11-22T16:40:28Z")
I’m pretty sure Clem was the madam when William showed up. Now the question is, was it because Maeve needed repairs (she was acting weird already) or because Maeve wasn’t the madam yet? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/726 "2016-11-22T17:09:12Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Dolores sees herself in the window and is thoughtful, then she is back being interviewed by Bernard in what looks like a basement room somewhere … The basement room somewhere is the same secret lab in which Theresa was killed. In one of the shots you can see the stairs in the background behind Bernard. That raises some interesting questions. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/727 "2016-11-22T17:09:15Z")
Maybe Meave was getting repaired because she was still grieving for her daughter? That would cement the MiB = William plot twist wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/728 "2016-11-22T19:01:43Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Maybe Meave was getting repaired because she was still grieving for her daughter? > > That would cement the MiB = William plot twist wouldn’t it? She was being repaired because she started having memories and acting weird. Here’s the Maeve timeline: 1. Past: Maeve lives out on the homestead, Clem is the madam 2. Roughly a year ago: MIB kills Maeve’s daughter 3. Present day: Maeve is the madam 4. Dolores says the “violent things” line to Maeve, she starts remembering things and acting weird. 5. The techs pull Maeve, put Clem back in as the madam 6. Elsie puts Maeve back in as madam. So the question is, when William arrived in Sweetwater and saw Clem, was it during #1 or #5? ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/729 "2016-11-22T19:10:25Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > So the question is, when William arrived in Sweetwater and saw Clem, was it during #1 or #5? It’s worth noting that _every_ time we see the morning arrival scene with Maeve as the Madam (the big guy in the background bumping into people and getting into, and losing, a clumsy shootout every time), the sheriff is recruiting people and there’s a guy nailing up a WANTED sign for Hector. When William & Logan arrive, there’s a soldier there instead recruiting for something else and no trace of Hector. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/730 "2016-11-22T20:32:47Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I’m not sure why everyone was on the William = MIB train in the first place. I mean, they’re obviously different actors and people don’t change THAT much with age. \ I can buy that William could be a younger version of MIB _appearance_-wise, given that they share somewhat similar body-types/physical characteristics and many middle-aged+ folks do look vastly different from their younger selves (I learned that lesson after seeing some of my old flames 25+ years after dating—yikes! Remarkably, I look as good as ever 😉 ) However, people’s voices and speech patterns change little as they age and William/MIB do not sound like the same person (e.g. MIB has a unique way of pronouncing “_Delores_” which William does not share). I’d think, if the two are supposed to be the same person, the actors would have been directed to sync-up at least subtly on some key voice patterns/pronunciations/expressions. They don’t, making me believe they are not the same person. All-in-all, I remain a fan of this series. Unlike some, I don’t want too many ends tied up by the end of this season. I expect this to be a multi-season series and I enjoy a slow burn. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/731 "2016-11-22T20:55:25Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > All-in-all, I remain a fan of this series. Unlike some, I don’t want too many ends tied up by the end of this season. I expect this to be a multi-season series and I enjoy a slow burn. A second season has been ordered. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/732 "2016-11-22T20:58:03Z")
I do think that quite a great final scene of season 1 would be William meeting the MiB and then cut to black before either can say a word. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/733 "2016-11-22T21:15:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > … Outside sites are necessary to understand the theories before the answers are definitively given, but if the reveals are done well, I would think that just the show alone should be enough to follow what’s been happening. But I don’t know any casual watchers to ask. It would be interesting to hear from someone who’s been watching and not doing any outside reading about the show, but obviously no one like that would be reading a thread about the show. > … I’m probably not the only one here who is doing no outside reading apart from this thread. I don’t like to look at sites on which people set out their theories until after the show is over (just as I don’t like to read reviews of movies before seeing them). Again, I bet I’m not the only one. That’s not quite the same thing as you were referencing (people who do NO reading), but at least it seems safe to say that some of us aren’t working off the theories of others. > [@Alessan](#): > > So… robots programming robots? Robots programming themselves? > This show is going to be about the technological singularity, isn’t it? I think it’s about human intelligence versus artificial intelligence, so, yeah, kinda. My opinion is that Ford loves his toys and is arrogant enough to think he can play with their minds without negative consequences to himself–the central conflict of the story from which all that we see flows. For Ford, it’s more fun if the robots are ‘more human’—yet he can still control them with a word. We know he made Bernard because his human workers weren’t successful at enhancing the minds of his toys (the Hosts) to his satisfaction. I believe the entire Dolores-infects-Maeve-and-Maeve infects Felix-and-Sylvester (aka Lutz and Sylvester, but I like the cat-character references) is part of Ford’s own personal Project–a sort of thumb-in-the-eye of the Board and the Board’s Project. In re robots infecting other robots with mind-changing programming: why do the techs wear haz-mat suits when they go into the park? Clearly the park itself has nothing harmful to humans. (Guests!) So why are those park-employees suited up? Answer: to ward off infection of their robot brains by the ongoing Project, the suits being soundproof. (I think.) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/734 "2016-11-22T21:25:03Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Maybe Meave was getting repaired because she was still grieving for her daughter? Do hosts grieve? (Do androids dream of electric sheep?) ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/735 "2016-11-22T22:28:14Z")
She certainly did for her daughter. The old “the pain is all I have left of them” trope that runs through the series was said. ---
**Author:** ![HammerJoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@HammerJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HammerJoe)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/736 "2016-11-22T23:53:42Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > There’s a later scene with William and Logan at the brothel - Logan is with three hosts in the next room while William is trying to clean the blood off his hat (from when Logan stabbed the old guy at the restaurant). Clementine comes in and talks to William, but again, we don’t see Maeve. Another thing from this weeks episode that could also be a clue unless I miunderstood. As far as I now so far William is engaged to some woman and it doesnt match the story that MIB told Teddy when he was tied up because he said that he started coming to the park after his marriage was in shambles and he wanted to find his dark side. Maybe I misunderstood that the mib started coming to the park after he was married? Also doesnt Dollores mention the name Arnold to William? Doesnt make sense if its happening in the early days of the park?? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/737 "2016-11-23T00:02:55Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > Another thing from this weeks episode that could also be a clue unless I miunderstood. > As far as I now so far William is engaged to some woman and it doesnt match the story that MIB told Teddy when he was tied up because he said that he started coming to the park after his marriage was in shambles and he wanted to find his dark side. > > Maybe I misunderstood that the mib started coming to the park after he was married? He’s been coming to the park for a very long time, since the beginning. But his turn to the dark side and killing Maeve’s daughter only happened after his marriage fell apart. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/738 "2016-11-23T00:04:39Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Answer: to ward off infection of their robot brains by the ongoing Project, the suits being soundproof. (I think.) Or just to keep the blood and guts off of their clothes? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/739 "2016-11-23T00:11:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > > > Maybe Meave was getting repaired because she was still grieving for her daughter? > > Do hosts grieve? (Do androids dream of electric sheep?) > [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > She certainly did for her daughter. > > The old “the pain is all I have left of them” trope that runs through the series was said. But given that the guests are encouraged to rape and murder the hosts, why would they design them to grieve and feel the pain of loss? That seems unnecessarily cruel. Or is the grief and pain only present because the hosts are not being wiped as cleanly as was planned? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/740 "2016-11-23T00:13:11Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Or just to keep the blood and guts off of their clothes? With the full haz-mat head-case helmet? ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/741 "2016-11-23T00:26:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > But given that the guests are encouraged to rape and murder the hosts, why would they design them to grieve and feel the pain of loss? That seems unnecessarily cruel. Or is the grief and pain only present because the hosts are not being wiped as cleanly as was planned? To seem real. But obviously Maeve is a special case since she wasn’t able to be shut down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=38)