# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/762 "2016-11-28T07:48:18Z")
> [@IvoryTowerDenizen](#): > > When Logan cuts into Dolores to prove to Billy that she’s not real he revealed more mechanical than human inner workings. So he either had to know that Dolores was an old type and wouldn’t look human on the inside, or that it was 30 years ago when all the hosts were mechanical like that. > > I think those scenes are from 30 years ago and Billy becomes MiB. Even more evidence - when William slaughters that entire company, notice the dis-articulated limbs. They are ALL clockwork, just like Dolores’ guts. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/763 "2016-11-28T12:58:08Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Watching this show is like getting completely hammered on a Friday night, waking up on Saturday, and trying to figure out what the fuck happened the night before. > > 😃 More like waking up last Tuesday and trying to figure out who the fuck you are. > [@DSeid](#): > > I am more convinced that security guy, Ashley Stubbs, is a host. But what is the point of having him lured into a trap? Presumably so he can get dumped in with Elsie so we can find out what happened to her (who I assume isn’t dead since they keep teasing us with that.) > [@hajario](#): > > That is a very real possibility. He could have been trying to scare her to get information like he did with the little girl a few episodes back. I just don’t see William flipping to be such a psychopath. I don’t know. He did a bit of a number on those Confederate soldiers. In fact, seeing William there holding that giant-ass Bowie knife, I’m pretty much absolutely positive he’s young MIB. Except… In the photo of young Ford, third guy in middle and Arnold, the guy in the middle looks like a younger Ed Harris. But my WAG is that Dolores gets killed, has her memory wiped, and young William spends the next 30 years looking for the same self-awareness in Dolores or other hosts. Probably getting frustrated over the years with his loveless career marriage, constantly playing a part and never again finding what he had on the train with Dolores. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/764 "2016-11-28T13:13:28Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Yeah, but assuming they haven’t made a mistake in the eye color thing, then… > > Anyway, I don’t think MiB hates Dolores. I do think he’s trying to jar her out of her loop though. I’m not sure if I have the timeline thing right or not, but I kind of wonder if what he did in the barn with her was not a rape but something to provoke her to take his gun and hide it for later use when she finally does break free. If we accept the premise that MiB is William, then he may be trying to recreate what happened when Logan was threatening to sexually assault Dolores. She lashed out and protected herself by cutting him. He may be trying to reach that level of awareness in her by similarly threatening her in the modern timeline. MiB recalled that when he killed Maeve’s daughter, Maeve was briefly “alive” in that trauma. May be the same idea at play. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/765 "2016-11-28T14:18:53Z")
Maybe William requests to be turned into a host, in exchange for helping to fund the park 30 years ago, so that he can be with Dolores on equal ground. In a cruel twist, Ford makes him Dolores’ father. :eek: That’s why Abernathy had that photo. Just kidding. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/766 "2016-11-28T14:45:41Z")
Teddy=Kenny Poor guy/host/whatever ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/767 "2016-11-28T15:10:30Z")
Another fun fact a friend emailed me: the knife William uses to kill the whole encampment appears to be the same knife that MiB uses to cut the noose. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/768 "2016-11-28T15:23:14Z")
Here is one thing I’m confused about: We’ve seen that everything but the church steeple in the village is buried under sand in the present day. And we’ve assumed that the scenes in the village were from 30 years ago (or more). Ford even mentions at one point that the village is under sand. However, at the end of this episode, the MiB walks into the non-buried church and talks to Dolores, who is dressed in her blue dress. (Though I’m not sure how much we can trust her clothing as any indicator since it seems to shift back and forth as she re-lives memories.) Anyway, the MiB is elderly in that scene. Seemingly the same age as he is in the present day. I can’t figure out how to reconcile that timeline discontinuity. Could the MiB storyline actually be in the past? But that doesn’t make any sense due to the Theresa/Hale/Bernard storyline which I think must be in the present day timeline. And Hale appears in the MiB storyline revealing that he is on the Delos board. If the MiB story is from the past, then all the other related storylines would also have to be in the past. For example, his killing of Homesteader Maeve and her daughter. The search for the center of the maze. etc. Have we ever seen the MiB with the buried village? That is the only thing I can think of that clearly indicates a timeline definitively. Any scene with Bernard/Arnold cannot be trusted as to when it happened. Sigh. Maybe the scene with the MiB in the non-buried church is a red herring and only exists in the fragmented memory of Dolores. It will be interesting to see the circumstances under which Dolores kills Arnold. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/769 "2016-11-28T15:39:33Z")
So, did Ford use Dolores to kill Arnold? Or, did Dolores kill Arnold on her own, because she didn’t find contentment in the maze, only unhappiness? Does Charlie=Charlotte? Her daughter dying is Maeve’s cornerstone. His son dying is Bernard/Arnold’s cornerstone. Is Arnold dying Ford’s cornerstone? I am so confused, and I _understood_ **Lost**. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/770 "2016-11-28T15:40:32Z")
I believe that they unburied the church and that whole town for Ford’s new narrative. Which makes me realize something. Didn’t someone say that the maze is for Dolores? Could the maze be the real world underneath Westworld accessed by the elevator in the church confessional? ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/771 "2016-11-28T15:51:02Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I believe that they unburied the church and that whole town for Ford’s new narrative. Well, I suppose they could’ve un-buried the church and village. Though it seems to me it’d be a whole lot easier to re-build it than un-bury it. Regardless, it would resolve my confusion with an elderly MiB entering an un-buried church. > [@](#): > > Which makes me realize something. Didn’t someone say that the maze is for Dolores? Could the maze be the real world underneath Westworld accessed by the elevator in the church confessional? That would be interesting. But why would the MiB be obsessed about the maze. As a board member wouldn’t he know that the maze is a map of the underworld? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/772 "2016-11-28T16:07:14Z")
Fantastic episode with so many theories confirmed. I had significant doubts that Bernard was a copy of Arnold, but those that speculated thus were correct. And it seems more and more that William = MIB is coming true (I was for Logan, but the eye color thing, the picture that caused Abernathy to malfunction, and the crazed look that William had after he dismembered all the Confederados and wanted to ‘play the game’ has just about sealed it for me. > [@Algernon](#): > > Well, I suppose they could’ve un-buried the church and village. Though it seems to me it’d be a whole lot easier to re-build it than un-bury it. It appears Ford has something for that church. It’s the one he was looking when telling host kid-Ford that he was going to make a new narrative out of it. > [@](#): > > That would be interesting. But why would the MiB be obsessed about the maze. As a board member wouldn’t he know that the maze is a map of the underworld? As his brief interruption with Charlotte indicated, the Board doesn’t know a lot of what is going on. MIB knew about the uploads on some hosts, for one. One of my favorite parts though was when they normalized Logan. Logan was shown to be a complete dick, but then, you saw his side… and realized it made complete sense. Logan treats the park like a Grand Theft Auto type game. Let loose, have fun. And also, is a bit mad that William is starting to forget that he’s marrying Logan’s sister. So he has to snap him back into reality by cruelly showing that Dolores isn’t human. ---
**Author:** ![MeanJoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanjoe/32/5693_2.png) [@MeanJoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanJoe)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/773 "2016-11-28T16:12:53Z")
Honestly, my head hurts. Visually this show is amazing. The acting/characters are superb. But the story arc is leaving me both fascinated and completely off-kilter not understanding what is really happening (and perhaps when). This shit is deep! Haha ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/774 "2016-11-28T16:22:20Z")
Did anyone else expect Bernard to kill Charlie, when he had his arms around him on the bed? Also, the pin that Logan was wearing looks very similar to the “Hand of the King” pin from GoT. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/775 "2016-11-28T16:29:49Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > Here is one thing I’m confused about: > > We’ve seen that everything but the church steeple in the village is buried under sand in the present day. And we’ve assumed that the scenes in the village were from 30 years ago (or more). Ford even mentions at one point that the village is under sand. > > However, at the end of this episode, the MiB walks into the non-buried church and talks to Dolores, who is dressed in her blue dress. (Though I’m not sure how much we can trust her clothing as any indicator since it seems to shift back and forth as she re-lives memories.) Anyway, the MiB is elderly in that scene. Seemingly the same age as he is in the present day. > > I can’t figure out how to reconcile that timeline discontinuity. > > Could the MiB storyline actually be in the past? But that doesn’t make any sense due to the Theresa/Hale/Bernard storyline which I think must be in the present day timeline. And Hale appears in the MiB storyline revealing that he is on the Delos board. If the MiB story is from the past, then all the other related storylines would also have to be in the past. For example, his killing of Homesteader Maeve and her daughter. The search for the center of the maze. etc. > > Have we ever seen the MiB with the buried village? That is the only thing I can think of that clearly indicates a timeline definitively. Any scene with Bernard/Arnold cannot be trusted as to when it happened. > > Sigh. Maybe the scene with the MiB in the non-buried church is a red herring and only exists in the fragmented memory of Dolores. > > It will be interesting to see the circumstances under which Dolores kills Arnold. Is it possible that the church and town have been rebuilt by now? We know it’s part of Ford’s new story and he’s almost done with it. Maeve has only been a madame for about a year and she was repurposed after her encounter with the MiB. So that had to also have been relatively recent. Someone should put together a timeline. I also feel like the “maze” is more of a metaphorical maze. Not literally the maintenance tunnels and catacombs under the park. I mean they aren’t “secret”, just concealed from the guests. I’m sure a member of the board could access them if he really wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/776 "2016-11-28T16:33:04Z")
Logan must be a really sound sleeper. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/777 "2016-11-28T16:39:17Z")
For some reason the Board and the MiB wants to release the hosts/host technology into the real world. Remember that we have no idea what the real world is like. It can be anywhere from a utopia to a wasteland. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/778 "2016-11-28T17:03:32Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Someone should put together a timeline. Agreed! Although whatever would be created would rest upon a lot of assumptions and opinions. ---
**Author:** ![Algernon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a183cd/32.png) [@Algernon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algernon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/779 "2016-11-28T17:44:08Z")
From Reddit, here is one attempt at a timeline. > **[r/westworld - A Chronological View of Westworld's Timeline](https://www.reddit.com/r/westworld/comments/5el6uw/a_chronological_view_of_westworlds_timeline/)** > > 2,265 votes and 465 comments so far on Reddit ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/780 "2016-11-28T18:09:23Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I believe that they unburied the church and that whole town for Ford’s new narrative. Which makes me realize something. Didn’t someone say that the maze is for Dolores? Could the maze be the real world underneath Westworld accessed by the elevator in the church confessional? Wasn’t Dolores with Arnold in the underground room when he told her to find the maze? Although maybe her analysis part of her mind knows about it, but she needs to find it in host mode in order to discover the truth. Also, if the maze is the underground tunnels and rooms, that wouldn’t do anything for the MIB, other than he can lead hosts to it. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/781 "2016-11-28T18:44:24Z")
> [@Algernon](#): > > However, at the end of this episode, the MiB walks into the non-buried church and talks to Dolores, who is dressed in her blue dress. She was not, she was wearing the pants and blouse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=40)