# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 45
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/882 "2016-12-01T22:26:22Z")
> [@troub](#): > > So it was speculated for a long time, almost since the beginning, that Dolores killing Arnold was possibly the “critical failure” 30+ years ago that was mentioned in Episode 1 or 2. Which raises the question of why she’s still around - it’s shown that any of the hosts which glitch out too much get a power drill up the nose then carted off to the Creepy Naked Android Basement if they’re lucky - or they end up in the incinerator if they’re not. A synth killing a human - especially an important one like the park’s co founder - should realistically be decommissioned pretty much instantly. I wonder why Dolores wasn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/883 "2016-12-01T22:27:47Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > (Of course I’ve been supporting the theory that all the present-day Westworld employees are artificial persons, most of whom have no idea that they are not human and that their memories are mere implants.) God I hope not. For me, they’ve got maybe one more trip down that road before I start getting “Surprise-I’m-a-Cylon!” annoyed. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/884 "2016-12-01T22:29:44Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Makes sense to me. > > We are left with the situation: a robot malfunctioned and killed at least one human (Arnold)—and the park kept going and the malfunctioning robot is still in service. > > Tough to believe that could happen unless the guy in charge (Ford) had been able to quiet all the human witnesses who survived the massacre. > > For all we know Dolores malfunctioned when no guests were present–but the human Westworld employees would surely have represented a problem for Ford. They would have talked, and his park would, at the very least, have been taken away from him (and possibly shut down altogether). > > So I’m thinking we will find out that Ford did something to those employees along the lines of what happened to Theresa. (Of course I’ve been supporting the theory that all the present-day Westworld employees are artificial persons, most of whom have no idea that they are not human and that their memories are mere implants.) It’s been specifically said that Arnold died before the park opened. I imagine that Ford might have been able to spin it to the employees that either Arnold indirectly caused it because of his crazy ideas about how the hosts should have sentience and the massacre proves how wrong he was, or he put forth a story that Arnold was indirectly committing suicide, or some other thing. Also, I don’t know if anything has directly been stated on the show, but I’m guessing the employees all have pretty serious NDAs they signed, and Westworld is a pretty secretive place in general. Even if an employee knew or suspected the truth, they might be limited on getting the story out. And we hardly know anything about how Westworld is seen by the outside world, if it’s thought of as 100% safe, or if there are rumors about how a robot went crazy and killed a bunch of other robots and some people and that’s part of the thrill of going. ---
**Author:** ![Honey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honey/32/5074_2.png) [@Honey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honey)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/885 "2016-12-02T00:36:04Z")
Isn’t it possible that Ford killed Arnold, but coded Dolores into thinking she did it? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/886 "2016-12-02T01:20:11Z")
> [@Honey](#): > > Isn’t it possible that Ford killed Arnold, but coded Dolores into thinking she did it? Possible, but Ford doesn’t seem the type to get his hands dirty. Instead of killing Theresa or Bernard himself, he made Bernard do it. If Ford wanted to kill Arnold, I’d think he’d have made Dolores think that she needed to do it for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![Made\_in\_Macau](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eada6e/32.png) [@Made\_in\_Macau](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Made_in_Macau)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/887 "2016-12-02T12:17:02Z")
Sorry if this has been covered but I’ve binge watched and scanned through this thread. Player piano songs; it may not have been the first one played, but the first one I noticed was No Surprises - Radiohead - played twice? Fake Plastic Trees - Radiohead Not sure but thought it was possibly Everything In It’s Right Place - Radiohead - maybe not. Then after a Dolores reset House of the Rising Sun - The Animals Back To Black - Amy Winehouse Clearly they are thematic to the episodes - but I was hoping they were all going to be Radiohead songs. The first two have such lovely melodies, I was just amazed Radiohead gave clearance. MiM ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/888 "2016-12-02T15:21:50Z")
You forgot “Black Hole Sun” by Soundgarden. > [@hajario](#): > > I believe that they unburied the church and that whole town for Ford’s new narrative. It was said explicitly at some point but I can’t remember by whom. > [@Cayuga](#): > > I’m thinking that Arnold realized the hosts were, or were about to be, or could easily become sentient, and so, not wanting to be essentially a slave owner, he tried to shut the whole project down. That’s why Ford killed him, or had Dolores kill him, or whatever. I’m still toying with the idea that Ford is himself a host. Ford built Bernard to create levels of emotional complexity in the new hosts that he himself was not able to achieve. What if Arnold created Ford for the same reason? Arnold also made him a family; in turn, he gave Bernard one of sorts. It would certainly explain how Ford is able to control other hosts without appearing to move or speak to direct them and how he “knows all and sees all” - he’s linked to all of them. And there was a certain amount of ambiguity in Bernard’s repeated use of the word “us” in his last scenes - did he mean “us” as in “all the Westworld hosts” or “us” as in “you and I”? The show has been littered with such clues-in-plain-sight throughout. Finally, of course, it might explain why Ford doesn’t kill directly - he may not be able to, but he can get others to in the same way Bernard was going to use Clementine to kill Ford. Which left me with the “why” of what Ford was doing…and I think you’ve just added that piece. If Arnold’s response to the emerging sentience of his hosts was to shut them down, Ford getting Dolores to kill him (or, I suppose, her killing him on her own initiative) was a form of self-defense. Ford’s subsequent repeated insistence that the hosts are mindless objects while simultaneously working to develop that sentience then makes sense - he’s protecting himself and others. > [@ISiddiqui](#): > > It (what is consciousness, I mean) happens to be one of my favorite sci-fi themes, so I’ll just disagree. (Well, and I thought newBSG did well with what they did with it) The series “Humans” is also doing an excellent (although much less bloody) exploration of the theme. Some stupendous acting as well. ---
**Author:** ![troub](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troub/32/14802_2.png) [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/889 "2016-12-02T15:22:10Z")
> [@Made\_in\_Macau](#): > > Not sure but thought it was possibly Everything In It’s Right Place - Radiohead - maybe not. The other Radiohead one (when Maeve was walking around the lab in the dress?) was “Motion Picture Soundtrack.” As for why wasn’t Dolores decomissioned if she killed a human…maybe that early in development they saw it as a solvable problem, and it was then that code for things like the weapons limitations and Good Samaritan reflex were implemented (and maybe the psychological “anchor” of the cornerstone memories, too). Perhaps at that time they felt that by adding additional safeguards and contingencies they could prevent it from happening again. And until now apparently Dolores hasn’t caused any more problems. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/890 "2016-12-02T15:47:14Z")
One more point about Ford: we’ve seen glimpses of him as a younger man… but we’ve also seen that POV past and present can be unreliable and manipulated. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/891 "2016-12-02T16:12:27Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > The series “Humans” is also doing an excellent (although much less bloody) exploration of the theme. Some stupendous acting as well. Thanks for the suggestion! I’ve added it to my Amazon watchlist. ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/892 "2016-12-02T19:19:09Z")
Am I the only one that keeps reading “Delos” as “Delores” I keep going back and re-reading posts to make sure I’m reading it right. I’m waiting to find out this whole thing is a fantasy in Delores’ snow globe. I’m also waiting for the piano to start playing “All Around The Watchtower” One thing I did start wondering is…if all of the people working in the labs are robots/hosts themselves (since Ford did re-iterate “I built THIS WHOLE place”)…it would make sense as to no one paid attention to Maeve walking around…as they weren’t programmed to see her. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/893 "2016-12-02T20:30:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I’m still toying with the idea that Ford is himself a host. Ford built Bernard to create levels of emotional complexity in the new hosts that he himself was not able to achieve. What if Arnold created Ford for the same reason? Arnold also made him a family; in turn, he gave Bernard one of sorts. > > It would certainly explain how Ford is able to control other hosts without appearing to move or speak to direct them and how he “knows all and sees all” - he’s linked to all of them. And there was a certain amount of ambiguity in Bernard’s repeated use of the word “us” in his last scenes - did he mean “us” as in “all the Westworld hosts” or “us” as in “you and I”? The show has been littered with such clues-in-plain-sight throughout. Finally, of course, it might explain why Ford doesn’t kill directly - he may not be able to, but he can get others to in the same way Bernard was going to use Clementine to kill Ford. > > Which left me with the “why” of what Ford was doing…and I think you’ve just added that piece. If Arnold’s response to the emerging sentience of his hosts was to shut them down, Ford getting Dolores to kill him (or, I suppose, her killing him on her own initiative) was a form of self-defense. Ford’s subsequent repeated insistence that the hosts are mindless objects while simultaneously working to develop that sentience then makes sense - he’s protecting himself and others. Though I think it unlikely just because of the cgi young Ford ( though who is to say he couldn’t alter his appearance over time ), I do really like this train of thought. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/894 "2016-12-02T20:59:07Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Am I the only one that keeps reading “Delos” as “Delores” I keep going back and re-reading posts to make sure I’m reading it right. Yes, I’ve done that too. > [@edwards\_beard](#): > > …One thing I did start wondering is…if all of the people working in the labs are robots/hosts themselves (since Ford did re-iterate “I built THIS WHOLE place”)…it would make sense as to no one paid attention to Maeve walking around…as they weren’t programmed to see her. But the Asian guy was worried that someone might come in and notice Maeve and ask unwelcome questions, or that she would draw too much attention when he took her upstairs. I don’t think they’re all (or even mostly) hosts down in the workshops of the Mesa. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/895 "2016-12-02T21:21:01Z")
> [@edwards\_beard](#): > > Am I the only one that keeps reading “Delos” as “Delores” I keep going back and re-reading posts to make sure I’m reading it right. Perhaps you’re correct that there’s an intended connection, but note that the character’s name is “_ **Dolores** _,” not “Delores.” (Less close.) > [@Gyrate](#): > > … I’m still toying with the idea that Ford is himself a host. Ford built Bernard to create levels of emotional complexity in the new hosts that he himself was not able to achieve. What if Arnold created Ford for the same reason? Arnold also made him a family… It’s been bothering me for a while that though the Arnold-created robot Ford family is in an area of Westworld that’s off-limits for guests, they were still costumed (and their home themed) as being in the Old West. Ford’s childhood memories couldn’t have taken place in the Old West unless he’s been in robot-form for a century or so, or perhaps in suspended animation since 1940 or so. And there again we have a story in which in about 1940, technology was at a level far beyond what existed in the real-world. In other words, either option would make _Westworld_ a fantasy rather than science-fiction. So maybe the robot Ford family is stuck in a past that Ford himself _couldn’t_ have known, on the off-chance that a guest would wander in, despite prohibitions and/or safeguards that are intended to keep them out. But…it’s a reach. Wouldn’t Ford want to re-live memories of his family as they really were? Any explanation of the robot Fords being plunked down in the old West runs into problems. Is that intentional, or sloppy? Is this another argument for the theory that the whole show is a simulation running in a module on some alien’s desk? ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/896 "2016-12-02T21:29:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Perhaps you’re correct that there’s an intended connection, but note that the character’s name is “_ **Dolores** _,” not “Delores.” (Less close.) Yeah, my ears never have been good at spelling. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/897 "2016-12-02T21:40:25Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Ford’s childhood memories couldn’t have taken place in the Old West unless he’s been in robot-form for a century or so, or perhaps in suspended animation since 1940 or so. And there again we have a story in which in about 1940, technology was at a level far beyond what existed in the real-world. In other words, either option would make _Westworld_ a fantasy rather than science-fiction. > > So maybe the robot Ford family is stuck in a past that Ford himself _couldn’t_ have known, on the off-chance that a guest would wander in, despite prohibitions and/or safeguards that are intended to keep them out. But…it’s a reach. Wouldn’t Ford want to re-live memories of his family as they really were? Ford’s been described as “Dutch” a few times. Maybe he’s actually Afrikaans, and I can vaguely picture a rural family on some isolated South African plain, even in the late 21st or mid 22nd century, living a seemingly simple low-tech life. Heck, maybe he’s Pennsylvania Dutch, i.e. Amish, and he likes the Westworld theme specifically because it superficially reminds him of his youth, though with more whores, gambling, and gunfights. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/898 "2016-12-03T00:58:37Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ford’s been described as “Dutch” a few times. Maybe he’s actually Afrikaans, and I can vaguely picture a rural family on some isolated South African plain, even in the late 21st or mid 22nd century, living a seemingly simple low-tech life. Heck, maybe he’s Pennsylvania Dutch, i.e. Amish, and he likes the Westworld theme specifically because it superficially reminds him of his youth, though with more whores, gambling, and gunfights. Well, that might explain it, then. (I hadn’t recalled the “Dutch” description.) ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/899 "2016-12-03T01:16:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ford’s been described as “Dutch” a few times. Maybe he’s actually Afrikaans, and I can vaguely picture a rural family on some isolated South African plain, even in the late 21st or mid 22nd century, living a seemingly simple low-tech life. Heck, maybe he’s Pennsylvania Dutch, i.e. Amish, and he likes the Westworld theme specifically because it superficially reminds him of his youth, though with more whores, gambling, and gunfights. Nolan has said in an interview that _Westworld_ is set sometime in the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/900 "2016-12-03T02:22:22Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ford’s been described as “Dutch” a few times. Really? Last weekend I binge-rewatched episodes 1-8 before watching ep 9, and I don’t recall ever hearing this. The area with Ford’s pseudofamily in it can’t be that off-limits; Little Robert wandered up to the Man in Black and asked if he was lost. Ford said that Arnold modeled it after a family vacation the Fords took to … someplace. (Ford called it “The only happy memory from my childhood.”) I can’t say for sure where it was, but I remember it (possibly erroneously) as being somewhere in England – Brighton or Dorset or something. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2016, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/901 "2016-12-03T04:59:55Z")
I don’t remember Ford ever being described as Dutch, either. I kind of assumed he was Welsh, as Hopkins is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=44) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=46)