# Westworld - premieres Sunday (show spoilers as airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 1, 2016, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413 "2016-10-01T21:12:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 59
**Author:** ![LVBoPeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/858c86/32.png) [@LVBoPeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LVBoPeep)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1162 "2017-01-28T15:03:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So what’s the verdict on Maeve? Was she just acting on script? Or was she acting independently? Or was the escape scripted and her changing her mind not scripted? I thought she was acting on the script until she decided to go back to find her daughter. At least, I hope so because otherwise the story isn’t very interesting if the hosts aren’t developing some kind of AI. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1163 "2017-01-28T17:40:14Z")
This report came out this week from one of the world’s top 2 think tanks: > **[Artificial Intelligence and the Future of Warfare](https://www.chathamhouse.org/2017/01/artificial-intelligence-and-future-warfare)** > > The impact of the rapid expansion of the commercial market on autonomous systems development cannot be overstated. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2017, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1164 "2017-01-28T23:12:22Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > …There are humans in the park (possibly lots of them), and the rules have just changed. The slaves are now the masters: how do they deal with their former oppressors? Dolores seems to have chosen mass murder - does that make her good or bad? … It seems worth noting that we don’t actually have evidence that Dolores murdered any humans at all. Look at the scene again and you’ll see a lot of shots of Dolores firing; a lot of reaction shots of known-Hosts watching with approval; and ONE shot, blurred, of a red dot appearing on the back of a female-appearing character—who may or may not be a living human being. That is _all_. The Internet has acres of bandwidth of discussion about Dolores having committing a mass shooting of human beings—_and no evidence from the film itself that she did so_. So…there’s that. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1165 "2017-01-29T00:07:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > The Internet has acres of bandwidth of discussion about Dolores having committing a mass shooting of human beings—_and no evidence from the film itself that she did so_. OK, I’ll grant some of that (and it’s a hijack to my actual point), but that scene is certainly meant to imply that she did–and barring a very lame dodge, we know she killed Ford. I think that taking it at face value until shown otherwise is the best we can do at the moment. I’d even go so far as to say that there’s more evidence in that scene that she did shoot a lot of people than that she didn’t. We saw her kill someone, then fire into a crowd with deliberation, and at least one “person” was hit. I’d argue it’s a heck of a stretch to call that “no evidence.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1166 "2017-01-29T02:22:48Z")
I am also very much in the camp that William _could_ become the MiB but that the show skipped showing any believable arc, made even less believable by the completely different vocal and behavioral mannerisms of the characters. As I argued earlier in this thread, it is somewhat forgivable on the grounds that the point of the plot is as it was for The Maze: it is not for him. This is the hosts’ story. The twist that mattered to the show runners was that Dolores was trapped in memories and finding her way, not out, but to the center. His twist was in service of that. > [@RickJay](#): > > … 1. The one thing that kind of pulled me out of my suspension of disbelief from time to time was the economics of the parl; it’s simply impossible for me to believe Westworld has survived as a business enterprise for 30 years. … While of course we have no idea what the ongoing operating costs would be given a sunk investment, the storyline clearly implies that the the investors are seeing the losses as an R&D expense for some other intellectual property application that they consider more than big enough to justify the ongoing losses. The nature of that application is of course one of the unanswered questions that we expect will be eventually revealed. I would agree that “Dolores seems to have chosen mass murder …” but “seems” is clearly the operative word. We know the show runners want to misdirect and surprise us. So taking [this interview](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/westworld-season-two-spoilers-jonathan-nolan-lisa-joy-interview-952762) with the required grain of salt we are hearing that the plot continues to explore how the new species develops. But the key line is Nolan’s: > [@](#): > > I think with this show, you want to assume nothing. Specific to Dolores: > [@](#): > > The question will be when the dust settles and the pendulum stops swinging, who will Dolores be? The focus is on the hosts but I suspect have some new guests as characters whose perspectives we will follow too. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1167 "2017-01-29T21:29:01Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > OK, I’ll grant some of that (and it’s a hijack to my actual point), but that scene is certainly meant to imply that she did–and barring a very lame dodge, we know she killed Ford. Fair enough–but I wouldn’t put it past them to resort to the lame dodge you mention (it probably depends on contract negotiations with Sir Anthony). > [@TimeWinder](#): > > I think that taking it at face value until shown otherwise is the best we can do at the moment. I’d even go so far as to say that there’s more evidence in that scene that she did shoot a lot of people than that she didn’t. We saw her kill someone, then fire into a crowd with deliberation, and at least one “person” was hit. I’d argue it’s a heck of a stretch to call that “no evidence.” Unless we see it happen, we shouldn’t assume it happened (I’d argue). Other possibilities exist; perhaps Ford decided that true consciousness can’t arise unless the mind in question believes it can choose to ignore rules and take forbidden action, in this case the killing of humans. ‘An obedient mind is not a sentient/sapient mind’ or some such thing. But for that to work it wouldn’t be necessary that said mind _actually_ engage in the killing of humans–simply that it _believe_ it has done so (and thus the ‘people’ in the crowd could all have been robots). I’m not saying that this is what Nolan et al will do–I’m just saying that nothing we’ve seen would preclude it. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1168 "2017-01-30T03:57:11Z")
Agreed. And I don’t think it would be “lame dodge,” necessarily - just one possible path the story might take as it leads us into the next season. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1169 "2017-01-30T14:47:19Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I am also very much in the camp that William _could_ become the MiB but that the show skipped showing any believable arc, made even less believable by the completely different vocal and behavioral mannerisms of the characters. I admit the fact Jimmi Simpson and Ed Harris look nothing alike bothered me, too, and I’m not sure why they could not find an actor who looks a lot more like Ed Harris. I have nothing about Simpson personally, and he’s a good actor, but he was a poor physical fit. As to the arc, I am okay with it so far; I don’t think we’ve seen the end of it. There’s potentially a lot of that story left to tell. > [@](#): > > While of course we have no idea what the ongoing operating costs would be given a sunk investment, the storyline clearly implies that the the investors are seeing the losses as an R&D expense for some other intellectual property application that they consider more than big enough to justify the ongoing losses. This is the way I wrote it off too, no pun intended. Man, though, this is one goddamn expensive test to run for thirty years. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1170 "2017-02-02T19:50:27Z")
[Hilarious skit on Westworld using some of the WW actors and Billy Crystal reprising his Mitch character from City Slickers.](http://tvline.com/2017/02/02/westworld-parody-video-billy-crystal-city-slickers/) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1171 "2017-03-21T08:57:04Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > But that doesn’t really make sense to me. The reason the hosts don’t kill isn’t because they aren’t sentient, but because they are programmed not to. And MiB didn’t seem particularly interested in sentience, after Logan cut open Dolores. (Again, I’m not sure why that had such a profound impact on him. I could guess–it’s not necessarily implausible–but I’d rather be shown.) What he said he wanted was a challenge–a host that would fight back. > > But he owns the fucking company! He could order them to build a special section with killbots for him to fight if he wanted to. That’s why he’s such an idiot. He never grasps that the robots are props that can be controlled, that their narratives are man-made. He thinks Ford and Arnold really are some sort of gods, whose narratives are simply given. It never occurs to him that he can tell them to change the narrative if he isn’t satisfied with it. He could even tell them to pursue true sentience if that’s what he wants. But instead he bought an entire company so he could play video games in his freetime without ever getting involved in the development. Who does that? I think you’re forgetting that he’s the Man in Black. He’s saying that he wants to have a good fight, but I think what he really wants is for Westworld to become real. He wants all the machines to gain sentience so that all the rape and murder is really meaningful. He wants them to go out and kill and rape everyone back as well. He wants chaos, just for the LOLz of it. Killing dumb robots in a cage just isn’t as interesting as having people being raped and murdered by sentient beings, free form style. > [@Acsenray](#): > > Finally watched it, mostly unspoiled (have to remember not to look at Wikipedia!). > > Very impressed by it, but it wasn’t perfect. The biggest flaw was that I simply didn’t believe the transformation of William into The Man in Black. No way. I’m not sure why, but after purchasing the season on iTunes and hitting the “Yes” button when it asked, “Do you want to watch now?”, it started to play the final episode. I didn’t realize this fact. (I did think that they were really laying on the mystery, though, because they were introducing all of these things with no context and forcing you to keep swimming from there!) About halfway through the episode, the stream glitched out so I started downloading the full episodes instead and when I went back in to watch “episode 1”, and discovered what had happened. But so, I ended up watching the whole series knowing that Bernard was robo-Arnold and the MiB was William. And I knew that the William timeline was earlier than the Ford timeline. So, watching the season, knowing that William will become the MiB, I would say that they did enough to demonstrate that he was pretty dark and did give a number of dialogue clues that he was the same character through the whole thing. I would agree that they could have used a bit more backstory on him, but it isn’t out of whole cloth at the end. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2017, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1172 "2017-03-21T09:42:44Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Hilarious skit on Westworld using some of the WW actors and Billy Crystal reprising his Mitch character from City Slickers.](http://tvline.com/2017/02/02/westworld-parody-video-billy-crystal-city-slickers/) Watched this again. It made me a little sad about the absence of Bruno Kirby. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2017, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1173 "2017-04-02T12:53:51Z")
Thread resurrected for [this small hint by the makers about Season 2.](http://www.cinemablend.com/television/1642529/the-surprising-way-westworld-season-2-will-pick-up) > [@](#): > > The executive producers are remaining tight-lipped about the major story elements, but they did drop a little info regarding where Season 2 begins in the quote below: > > “We are definitely not picking up right where we left off.” I wonder where the season will begin. And it was good to see elsewhere that Louis Herthum, who played Evan Rachel Wood’s father, has been upped to a series regular in the upcoming season. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1174 "2017-04-13T18:42:44Z")
Funny new HBO ad with some familiar faces: ['Ahhh' HBO Intro ft. Dwayne Johnson, Emilia Clarke, Maisie Williams & More | (Version 2) - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBe_A1-gKe0) ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1175 "2017-04-13T21:27:14Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Funny new HBO ad with some familiar faces: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBe\_A1-gKe0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBe_A1-gKe0) I saw that earlier today–it seemed as though _Westworld_ cast members were being given pride of place over _Game of Thrones_. Of course GoT is ending and _Westworld_ could go on and one, but my impression is that so far, WW hasn’t managed to pull in the numbers that GoT did. (eta: watching it again, it doesn’t seem so pro-WW as I’d thought on first viewing. Not that any of this means anything in particular!) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1176 "2017-04-14T04:05:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > …my impression is that so far, WW hasn’t managed to pull in the numbers that GoT did… I think you may be mistaken: > **[‘Westworld’ Finale Hits Season High, Caps Most Watched First Season Of HBO...](https://deadline.com/2016/12/westworld-finale-ratings-season-high-drama-most-watched-hbo-first-season-series-1201864657/)** > > Last night's 90-minute Season 1 finale of HBO's sci-fi drama Westworld drew over 2.2 million viewers in its network premiere at 9 PM. > **[The 'Westworld' season finale broke ratings records for HBO](https://www.businessinsider.com/westworld-season-one-finale-ratings-records-for-hbo-2016-12)** > > Sunday's season-ender of "Westworld" banked a new high in ratings for the hit sci-fi drama. > **[Westworld is bigger than The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones in its first season](https://www.polygon.com/tv/2016/11/15/13640916/westworld-game-of-thrones-walking-dead-ratings)** > > Think HBO might have a hit on its hands ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1177 "2017-04-14T12:15:58Z")
There is a series called _Humans_ on Channel 4 (in the UK) and AMC (in the US) that covers some of the same territory as _Westworld_; robots/artificial humans achieving consciousness. I actually prefer _Humans_. _Westworld_ seemed to spend a lot of time being mysterious. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1178 "2017-04-14T14:05:18Z")
Thanks - that does look interesting: [Humans (TV series) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans_(TV_series)) ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1179 "2017-04-14T14:07:16Z")
The second season just finished a few weeks ago, but you may be able to watch it via the cable company’s On Demand service. And actually the series is based on another from Sweden. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1180 "2017-04-14T15:00:54Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Thanks - that does look interesting: [Humans (TV series) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humans_(TV_series)) It’s very good. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413/1181 "2017-04-14T21:47:59Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I think you may be mistaken: > > ['Westworld' Finale Season High, Most Watched 1st Season Of HBO Series](http://deadline.com/2016/12/westworld-finale-ratings-season-high-drama-most-watched-hbo-first-season-series-1201864657/) > ['Westworld' Season Finale Breaks Ratings Records for HBO - Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/westworld-season-one-finale-ratings-records-for-hbo-2016-12) > [Westworld is bigger than The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones in its first season - Polygon](http://www.polygon.com/tv/2016/11/15/13640916/westworld-game-of-thrones-walking-dead-ratings) Thanks–I’m not sure why I’d thought WW was doing less well. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > There is a series called _Humans_ on Channel 4 (in the UK) and AMC (in the US) that covers some of the same territory as _Westworld_; robots/artificial humans achieving consciousness. I actually prefer _Humans_. _Westworld_ seemed to spend a lot of time being mysterious. _Humans_ is very well-made and entertaining. If it had nudity, it might be as successful as is _Westworld_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=58) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-premieres-sunday-show-spoilers-as-airs/767413.md?page=60)