# Westworld S2 (show spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495 "2018-03-30T21:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/362 "2018-05-25T14:36:32Z")
…Mulva? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/363 "2018-05-25T14:49:23Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I thought it was Dolorous! :smack: You’re in the right ballpark; the name comes from from the Spanish _Maria de los Dolores_, literally “Mary of the Sorrows,” from plural of dolor, from Latin dolor “pain, sorrow.” Incidentally, “Maeve” means “intoxicating” or “she who intoxicates”, and is associated with Queen Mab of Irish and English legend (or “Medb” or dozens of other weird Irish spellings). Fun fact: the diminutive form of “Dolores” is “Lola” (or “Lolita”). :eek: > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > …Mulva? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/364 "2018-05-25T14:58:41Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Not at all because he’s using the laptop to do it, he’s not using his own mind that somehow magically gained the power to do it. You remember that Maeve is a computer, right? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/365 "2018-05-25T15:03:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes “network down” (and the network worked by going host to host per Bernard’s explanation of it earlier on) but that says nothing about the cause of its being down. The ability to receive standard form system messages may be disabled but it makes sense that Ford would have another system, one that would take priority over other messages, that he could use, in place. It would frankly be surprising if he did not, even as his “uprising” came with handicapping the ability of Delos use the network. Whether or not Maeve was planned to develop the ability to tap into that system or this is outside of Ford’s … machinations … is the open question. > > But within universe it still functions as a superpower that can allow her to do anything with hosts within world. Hopefully they establish some limits that constrain it. > > The other side though is again the contrast between her and Delores. We have no doubt how Delores would use that sort of power, we are seeing her use it in a cruder way even on Teddy despite her love of him. Maeve will clearly use it to save herself and those who she has chosen to care about but she will be very torn about her ability to abuse it, especially if/when she has cause to use it on one within her caring about circle. > > The other interesting contrast between their arcs is that Delores is more cruel to those near her but believes she is suffering and causing suffering for the good of her entire species and she cares about that deeply. Some need to be burned to save the herd … because of flies. (Flies mean something special in this show but I’m not sure what going forward.) If destroying the host she loves is the cost she will pay that cost. The herd is the important thing. Maeve is not concerned about the species, the herd, just about those within her caring about circle, especially her “daughter”, and then escaping into society at large with them … a society which she has never actually seen. As a fan of Jonathan Nolan’s previous rough AI show, Person of Interest, I’m constantly looking for parallels between the two series. As things stand, it seems as though Maeve is developing into the Machine, and Dolores, into Samaritan. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/366 "2018-05-25T15:04:04Z")
> [@And\_his\_buzzer\_goes](#): > > Come to think of it: she could be using some kind of point to point connection instead of going through the network. It only works when she’s close to another host. Note to self: When building virtual army of potentially homicidal robots that might individually achieve self-awareness…_don’t give them Bluetooth!_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/367 "2018-05-25T15:45:07Z")
> [@TimeWinder](#): > > Note to self: When building virtual army of potentially homicidal robots that might individually achieve self-awareness…_don’t give them Bluetooth!_ Come to think of it, that’d be an easy way to tell the hosts from humans - give the hosts blue teeth. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/368 "2018-05-25T16:12:11Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It’s also interesting that Maeve was programmed to not care about others so much and yet her main drives right now are based on her feelings for others and empathy for them. Delores, at least the rancher’s daughter part of her, was all about concern for others, yet she has no truck for empathy right now. > Not sure what to read into that if anything. And their memories of their past stories have that element of their current iterations. Maeve may not have empathy now, but did when she was living with a daughter. Dolores was Wyatt in a previous program. It’s like they believe their past memories are more true and less programmed than their most recent stories before awakening. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/369 "2018-05-25T19:08:59Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > **DOLORES** > > The first vowel is an O. So is the second vowel. The only E in DOLORES is the final vowel. D’oh. I knew that. “Dolor” is part of the classic definition of inflammation: calor, dolor, rubor, and tumor: Heat, pain, redness, and swelling. > [@Alessan](#): > > As a fan of Jonathan Nolan’s previous rough AI show, Person of Interest, I’m constantly looking for parallels between the two series. As things stand, it seems as though Maeve is developing into the Machine, and Dolores, into Samaritan. I like. Another thought about Maeve’s ability to wi-fi command other hosts and the reasonable presumption I have that the ability for hosts to be wi-fi controlled outside of the Delos accessible mesh network would have been put in by Ford … Maeve, at least allegedly, was scripted by Ford to go outside of the park into the real world, thinking it was of her own volition, and, we believe, out of free will went off script to on her quest for her “daughter.” And, we believe, Delos, has been replacing very rich and powerful people with hosts that they can control. (Perhaps the software to implement that control is the IP that was in Abernathy and possibly is now in Bernard?) Did perhaps Ford plan to have Maeve be in place to give commands to _those_ hosts, over-riding the Delos control with whatever Ford had in mind? Her being in the park when it happened not part of his script? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/370 "2018-05-26T01:20:21Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You remember that Maeve is a computer, right? Yes, but when the techs use the magic Ipads to do their bidding they’re physically plugging the thing into the host to change their core programming (not counting “cease all motor functions”). Meave is using the mesh network to change a host’s core programming which just seems like cheating to me. It would be like your desktop using the internet to tell your other desktop to change the language on Microsoft Word to Mandarin. I guess I’m perfectly ready and expecting someone to respond and say “but you can totally do that”, but it’s too much magic to me for it to be believable. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/371 "2018-05-26T03:20:38Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > Yes, but when the techs use the magic Ipads to do their bidding they’re physically plugging the thing into the host to change their core programming (not counting “cease all motor functions”). Meave is using the mesh network to change a host’s core programming which just seems like cheating to me. > > It would be like your desktop using the internet to tell your other desktop to change the language on Microsoft Word to Mandarin. I guess I’m perfectly ready and expecting someone to respond and say “but you can totally do that”, but it’s too much magic to me for it to be believable. The tablets used to reprogram the hosts are wireless. Here’s Ford giving Teddy a backstory using a wireless tablet: [https://youtu.be/rxR\_WVyjly8](https://youtu.be/rxR_WVyjly8) Here’s Felix showing Maeve what she’s thinking on a wireless tablet: [https://youtu.be/qVdlnH81ON0](https://youtu.be/qVdlnH81ON0) Here’s Maeve taking a tour of the facilities. Note the wireless tablet that Felix is using as well as all the other wireless tablets: [https://youtu.be/fqDKk55MsJQ](https://youtu.be/fqDKk55MsJQ) Here’s Dolores asking a hapless mook to reprogram Teddy using a wireless tablet: [https://youtu.be/951vZfKF1s0?t=2m58s](https://youtu.be/951vZfKF1s0?t=2m58s) Maeve is using the same wireless network used to reprogram the hosts. She’s just discovered that she can broadcast as well as receive. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/372 "2018-05-26T07:02:43Z")
IIRC Bernard, Elsie, et al. only used the direct USB interface when the network was glitchy, otherwise it was indeed all wireless. About Dolores, she may not yet have discovered Wi-Fi Jedi mind tricks, but she was competent enough to shanghai straight off at least one technician with a control tablet. We have seen her re-program Teddy; it doesn’t entirely make sense that she would waste resources by having hosts damaged/shot rather than wiped and reprogrammed, but then again we have not yet been told what her endgame is at the Mesa, so maybe it doesn’t require that much cannon fodder. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/373 "2018-05-26T14:42:50Z")
So did anyone else see that it looks like Dolores and Teddy are staying at the Grand Central Hotel from Deadwood? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/374 "2018-05-26T15:09:26Z")
And remember that the hosts’ programming can be accessed through speech. To the extent that humans need to use laptops to do anything more complex than commands like “cease all motor functions” and resort to using tablet computers might not be a limitation of the speech interface but rather the limitations of a human being to speak in complex computer code, a limitation that wouldn’t apply to a robot/android/computer itself. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/375 "2018-05-26T17:26:19Z")
I am struggling with Dolores this season. Her character shift this season is really at odds with her character last season. She was like Teddy. Which is to say, very much the moral good in the show, in stark contract to the humans, who by and large were not. Maeve was more morally ambiguous. I think Dolores this season has become everything she hated last season. She appears to hold true affection for no one, although she professes it, with the possible exception of her father. The shift makes her less sympathetic, which I believe is intentional, but it is also implausible and seems forced. She could have been the same leader, making the same decisions, but with her old compassion and empathy. To me, that would have been a more interesting story and a more believable one. Dolores becomes more robotic by the day, and less human. Maeve, on the other hand, does have a more believable evolutionary arc. She begins as a predatory, selfish creature, bound by her programming, and becomes someone who is capable of empathy and understanding others, outside of her programming. She is not yet capable of expanding that to all hosts, but that may be coming. She can be surprised by events, she is not omniscient, nor is she perfect. Oddly, despite her gifts, she is not mindlessly obeyed by all others. Consider the group that follows Dolores (prep the train, hold Teddy, etc - and its silent obedience) versus the group with Maeve (sometimes she’s a witch, sometimes she isn’t, and they all mouth off and argue). The “Person of Interest” comparison is interesting, but I wish it felt like a natural progression instead of a forced one. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/376 "2018-05-26T18:00:57Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I am struggling with Dolores this season. Her character shift this season is really at odds with her character last season. She was like Teddy. Which is to say, very much the moral good in the show, in stark contract to the humans, who by and large were not. Maeve was more morally ambiguous. I think Dolores this season has become everything she hated last season. She appears to hold true affection for no one, although she professes it, with the possible exception of her father. The shift makes her less sympathetic, which I believe is intentional, but it is also implausible and seems forced. She could have been the same leader, making the same decisions, but with her old compassion and empathy. To me, that would have been a more interesting story and a more believable one. Dolores becomes more robotic by the day, and less human. > > Maeve, on the other hand, does have a more believable evolutionary arc. She begins as a predatory, selfish creature, bound by her programming, and becomes someone who is capable of empathy and understanding others, outside of her programming. She is not yet capable of expanding that to all hosts, but that may be coming. She can be surprised by events, she is not omniscient, nor is she perfect. Oddly, despite her gifts, she is not mindlessly obeyed by all others. Consider the group that follows Dolores (prep the train, hold Teddy, etc - and its silent obedience) versus the group with Maeve (sometimes she’s a witch, sometimes she isn’t, and they all mouth off and argue). > > The “Person of Interest” comparison is interesting, but I wish it felt like a natural progression instead of a forced one. Dolores was the sweet victimized rancher’s daughter and also Wyatt the cold blooded murderer. This is the integration of both. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/377 "2018-05-26T18:55:24Z")
And they don’t integrate very well so Dolores comes off as insane (which arguably she is). Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/378 "2018-05-26T19:22:24Z")
Back to my speculation on Maeve and Ford’s possibly having put this ability into her … What other reason would there have been to have her scripted to be out in general human society? (Which, presumptively, had been Ford’s intent, unless her turning back was also his intent.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/379 "2018-05-26T19:55:39Z")
The last thing we saw on her programming template before she got off the train and headed back into WW was “Mainland Infiltration,” I think. She might’ve had a secondary assignment or capability as a spy all along. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/380 "2018-05-26T21:11:02Z")
Yes that was the last bit on her programming that we saw, which most of us assume was by Ford using Arnold’s login. What would she in an infiltrated position be able to spy on? If she was indeed intended to infiltrate the mainland she had reason (not of her own) to be there. Could her broadcast command ability be part of that plan now diverged? ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/381 "2018-05-27T02:22:21Z")
I’ve seen her name spelled Delores so many times I thought it was some kind of in-joke related to Delos. 😉 I think she only has one concern. To get to the center of that maze. She’s not worried about relationship building. She doesn’t care about building an army. She wants the freedom that comes with getting to the center. That’s “home” and she knows getting there requires suffering and detachment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=20)