# Westworld S2 (show spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495 "2018-03-30T21:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/422 "2018-06-04T12:38:48Z")
The Man In Black did not look healthy by the end of the latest episode. Nor did Lawrence. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/423 "2018-06-04T14:53:40Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Re your Suspension…yeah, I can buy a lot of it but > > 1. Aim for their damn heads, they’re aiming for yours. > > 2. Stop stepping out into the open to get shot. > > 3. WTF was Angelas plan??? Stand there until a guy with a grenade shows up and seduce him?? That was the most eyerolling for me. It bothered me most when the guys assaulted the fort a couple episodes back. They’re attacking a dug in position on foot with short range weapons. No drone surveillance, artillery, APCs, or rifles? As to point #3, yeah, that is among the dumbest things I’ve ever seen in media. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/424 "2018-06-04T15:14:33Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > This can’t possibly be the end of Maeve’s storyline. :eek: Sizemore needs to fine Felix & Sylvester and fix her. Also it’s interesting that there’s no sign of Ford in the other parks; it seems like he just let Delos run with in with them. I’m sure Maeve will be back. Sizemore will see to that. For that matter, Clementine will probably return as well. Remember she took the time to literally drag Bernard out of the Confederado fort and leave him outside the cave where Elsie was holed up. Someone besides Dolores is pulling her strings. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/425 "2018-06-04T15:27:31Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > For that matter, Clementine will probably return as well. Remember she took the time to literally drag Bernard out of the Confederado fort and leave him outside the cave where Elsie was holed up. Someone besides Dolores is pulling her strings. She almost seems to be glitching like Abernathy a bit. It looks like the guess that Delos was collecting info/DNA of the guests was correct. Wonder if they are all in their own version of Ford’s cradle world, waiting for the technology to get to the point that they can be downloaded into host bodies. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/426 "2018-06-04T18:49:32Z")
So is there more than one Benard running right now, and what looked like two timelines is concurent? ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/427 "2018-06-04T19:15:43Z")
This show is so far up its own ass that it forgot how to be a compelling show. Since Lisa and Jonathan obviously read this thread every week I’m telling them now: Quit trying to outsmart Reddit and MAKE A DAMN TV SHOW. You don’t see Game of Thrones pulling this shit, do you? The constant time jumping and hidden agendas and “gotcha!” moments are taking away from storytelling things like, I dunno, character development and motivation. Also, who put together the episode order? Not to mix metaphors, but a 5-star wrestling match [del]only happens in Japan[/del] is only good when you build the audience up with physicality, then cool them off with rest holds and long spots, then rev them up for the big finish. This season started by introducing the timelines and re-introducing us to the characters and getting us excited for the things to come, just to slow it down right away and give us a slow history episode? This is an episode 4 kind of thing, not a 2. It then, very smartly I might add, featured multiple episodes that only focused on a few characters, giving the other stories a chance to breathe. Then it suddenly tried to follow every story all the time and became frantic and jumbled and started to accelerate towards the end game. And now you’re slowing us down again with a history of the Ghost Nation tribe? This needed to be done 2 or 3 episodes ago! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2018, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/428 "2018-06-04T20:46:10Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > The Man In Black did not look healthy by the end of the latest episode. Meh. The most interesting thing about William is that he is played by Ed Harris. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/429 "2018-06-05T01:51:09Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > … > > Re your Suspension…yeah, I can buy a lot of it but > > 1. Aim for their damn heads, they’re aiming for yours. > > 2. Stop stepping out into the open to get shot. > > 3. WTF was Angelas plan??? Stand there until a guy with a grenade shows up and seduce him?? That was the most eyerolling for me… A disappointing episode for all these reasons, and I would add: 1. Maeve has the drop on the Man in Black in the farmhouse, and can only wing him? 2. Maeve mind-controls Lawrence and the other two guys in the MIB’s posse, and _still_ can’t kill him outright? I did like Ford creepily appearing only to Bernard, though, and it was nice to see the Frank Lloyd Wright house again, too. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/430 "2018-06-05T02:52:24Z")
She could not control Lawrence, she had to sell him on the idea instead. They’ve placed a limit on her power: she cannot command those who are “woke.” But overall agreed. Also as much as you may like Ford’s creepily appearing only to Bernard in universe it makes little sense. His consciousness is running in parallel with Bernard’s being active as well inside Bernard’s CPU and is able to exert complete control over it … without experiencing any degradation along the way either? Really? I’ll finish out the season but it’s getting more and more disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/431 "2018-06-05T02:56:03Z")
Oh, where they got [the idea for those haptic vests](http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/free-will-ai-and-vibrating-vests-investigating-science-westworld). > [@](#): > > … Eagleman, a neuroscientist at Stanford University in Palo Alto, California, spoke with Science about how much we should fear such an AI uprising. > > This interview has been edited for brevity and clarity. > > Q: How did you get involved in the show? > > A: I was talking with one of the writers, and I asked who their scientific adviser was. Turns out, they didn’t have one. So that’s how I got on board. Then I went to [Los Angeles, California,] and had a long session with the producers and writers, for about 6 hours, maybe 8, about free will and the possibility of robot consciousness. > > I also showed them some tech that I’d invented. I gave a TED talk a few years ago on this vest with vibratory motors on it. That’s now part of the season two plot. I can’t tell you anything about it. The real vest vibrates in response to sound, for deaf people, but in Westworld it serves a different purpose, giving the wearers an important data stream. … ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/432 "2018-06-05T02:59:59Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Oh, where they got [the idea for those haptic vests](http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/05/free-will-ai-and-vibrating-vests-investigating-science-westworld). Step one. Dont let your AI be mobile, or look like humans. Step two. Give them a physical off switch. Step three. Dont make them superstrong.I thought id read the producers said they wernt superstrong, but that doesnt quite seem right. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/433 "2018-06-05T03:06:18Z")
Ok hold on. I STILL cant quite figure out Delos plan. Dolores said something like “You want to become us, immortality” I’ve seen nothing to indicate they can or are working on actually uploading a human consciousness into a host. They can make or are working on making COPIES, but that is not anything close to uploading yourself into an immortal robot. You can copy my personality and make it into an ageless robot? BFD!! That doesn’t help me unless i’m a Machiavellian 80 year old AI designer named Ford who needs to see my plans reach fruition after my death. And even then i need some kind of Matrix to hold it. And btw…whats the difference between copying a human brain into their matrix/cradle…and copying it into a host?? Why would one degrade and the other not? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/434 "2018-06-05T03:18:26Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I’ve seen nothing to indicate they can or are working on actually uploading a human consciousness into a host. They can make or are working on making COPIES, but that is not anything close to uploading yourself into an immortal robot. If you can’t tell the difference, does it matter? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/435 "2018-06-05T03:35:03Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > If you can’t tell the difference, does it matter? If _who_ can’t tell the difference? I don’t care if other people can’t (well, maybe I’d care if I thought it was healthy for my family to live with a robot replacement). But I can tell the difference–or at least I could if I weren’t dead. This is a really weak form of artificial personalities, though. They just record your behaviors and create a model from that. It’s not even a copy–it’s a recreation. At least a copy has a chance at identical behavior; a recreation is just going to be a rough sketch. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/436 "2018-06-05T03:38:45Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Ok hold on. I STILL cant quite figure out Delos plan. Dolores said something like “You want to become us, immortality” > > I’ve seen nothing to indicate they can or are working on actually uploading a human consciousness into a host. They can make or are working on making COPIES, but that is not anything close to uploading yourself into an immortal robot. > > You can copy my personality and make it into an ageless robot? BFD!! That doesn’t help me unless i’m a Machiavellian 80 year old AI designer named Ford who needs to see my plans reach fruition after my death. And even then i need some kind of Matrix to hold it. > > And btw…whats the difference between copying a human brain into their matrix/cradle…and copying it into a host?? Why would one degrade and the other not? I’m guessing they’ll explain more of the stuff as it goes on, but the plan pretty much makes sense to me, just if it works depends on how you view consciousness. If the technology worked perfectly, then there would have been a human James Delos who would have died of cancer and his consciousness would have ended, but then there would have been a host James Delos who would have woken up and would have had all of human Delos’ memories, and would have felt like he was the real Delos just without cancer. Philosophers can and have debated on whether something like that is a continuation of consciousness, but I can imagine Delos and enough other rich people thinking that it is, and that it’s worth it to pay however much for it. I don’t think they’ve fully explained why the human brain copy works in the matrix/cradle but not in the real world. It’s a problem for the company in the show that they’d like to fix so I’m guessing they fully don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/437 "2018-06-05T03:48:45Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > I’m guessing they’ll explain more of the stuff as it goes on, but the plan pretty much makes sense to me, just if it works depends on how you view consciousness. If the technology worked perfectly, then there would have been a human James Delos who would have died of cancer and his consciousness would have ended, but then there would have been a host James Delos who would have woken up and would have had all of human Delos’ memories, and would have felt like he was the real Delos just without cancer. Philosophers can and have debated on whether something like that is a continuation of consciousness, but I can imagine Delos and enough other rich people thinking that it is, and that it’s worth it to pay however much for it. > > I don’t think they’ve fully explained why the human brain copy works in the matrix/cradle but not in the real world. It’s a problem for the company in the show that they’d like to fix so I’m guessing they fully don’t know. Yeah, I can see Delos LYING to a human and telling them, "When you die we upload you into the android and there ya go! One billion dollars please. " And someone else twigged onto another use I didn’t post in that a family can make a copy of a loved one. Like cloning a loved one that opens up a …host…of problems. Would I clone a beloved pet? I think I would. Would I clone a dead toddler?i don’t know. My toddlers arent toddlers anymore. I wouldnt clone them now that theyve reached 8 and 13. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/438 "2018-06-05T03:59:31Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > If _who_ can’t tell the difference? I don’t care if other people can’t (well, maybe I’d care if I thought it was healthy for my family to live with a robot replacement). But I can tell the difference–or at least I could if I weren’t dead. Robot Delos couldn’t tell the difference until William told him that he was in a host body. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/439 "2018-06-05T04:07:46Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > …I’ve seen nothing to indicate they can or are working on actually uploading a human consciousness into a host. They can make or are working on making COPIES, but that is not anything close to uploading yourself into an immortal robot… The only way “consciousness transference” could ever be anything other than creating a perfect, fully sapient, copy of a human’s memories and personality indistinguishable from the original would be if human beings did in fact have an immortal soul or life-force that could somehow removed from the body. Which is utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/440 "2018-06-05T04:15:23Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Robot Delos couldn’t tell the difference until William told him that he was in a host body. Sure. Robot Delos couldn’t tell, but human Delos _could_, because he still died painfully from lung cancer or whatever it was. It’s similar to the classic transporter problem, except that here the copy is far lower fidelity than the usual type. It doesn’t seem like a very useful type of immortality, but then again lots of people claim that their works or their children are a form of immortality, and this is a little better than _that_. It just still isn’t _you_. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/441 "2018-06-05T05:57:39Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > The only way “consciousness transference” could ever be anything other than creating a perfect, fully sapient, copy of a human’s memories and personality indistinguishable from the original would be if human beings did in fact have an immortal soul or life-force that could somehow removed from the body. Which is utter nonsense. Which just reminded me of something…you know how in (ok theres a good chance you dont know) ST:TNG ep “Measure of a Man” Picard exclaims “Does Data have a Soul? I don’t know. Do I? Do you??” Uhm…Picard in the last Ep of TOS, they more or less prove there is a soul in “Turnabout Intruder” when Kirk and Janice Lester exchange bodies. Now you can technobabble about engrams being copied and bullshit like that…shit in the first season of TNG some dude takes over Data’s body when said dude dies. …errr…i got a little off topic here. Rant over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=23)