# Westworld S2 (show spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 30, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495 "2018-03-30T21:47:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/562 "2018-06-25T02:50:39Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > Our consciousnesses are just simple algorithms that are passengers in our bodies. > > Heavy. > > Explains a lot, though. šŸ˜‰ Isnā€™t this an extremely widely held view and not novel in any way? I really didnā€™t like this season and thought this episode was one of the worst all year. Bah. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/563 "2018-06-25T02:53:06Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Isnā€™t this an extremely widely held view and not novel in any way? No doubt itā€™s not new, just nice to see it posited in a widely-watched medium about AI. > [@](#): > > I really didnā€™t like this season and thought this episode was one of the worst all year. Bah. To each their own. Overall I enjoyed the season. It held my interest. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/564 "2018-06-25T03:42:27Z")
Wow! At some level that could have been a series finale. Quite a fascinating episode with a lot of moving parts! Interesting how they summarized the theme of the season with that Bernard/Ford conversation - does free will exist (in the hosts OR the guests). Oh, and DONā€™T miss the post credits scene (and also donā€™t assume its the same timeline as everything else) ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/565 "2018-06-25T04:47:03Z")
I canā€™t defend this. I have made it clear I donā€™t care about the details. I loved the story. I loved everything about this show. This was a mess. It was a big stupid mess. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/566 "2018-06-25T11:34:01Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Interesting how they summarized the theme of the season with that Bernard/Ford conversation - does free will exist (in the hosts OR the guests). The computer more or less stated that humans definitely do _not_ have free will, being (from an AIā€™s point of view) completely predictable automata following a simple algorithm; not that much to them, really. It is implied that the new generation of superhuman AIs/hosts/replicants are able to make real choices and achieve a certain level of free will, but no humans are. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/567 "2018-06-25T13:08:05Z")
So I am going to give myself one ā€œcalled itā€ from the beginning in [post 23](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20920133&postcount=23) > [@](#): > > I am not so sure when that opening scene takes place. I think we are supposed to think it is past with real Arnold but to me the feel is more Bernard having been bought back on line (ā€œlost my thoughtsā€) with Delores interviewing him as he had her. His ā€œdreamā€ was too much of what we were then seeing as the two more current timelines. So yup. šŸ™‚ But otherwise in that same post I had asked > [@](#): > > The lines will intersect, they have to, but where, when, and how? How do they put together this game is made for MiB and the other lines, for example? And the way in which they intersected those lines? Agreed, a big stupid mess. Being confused throughout the season is to be expected but the finale should _snap_ it together. This did not. Maybe some of that was more clear to the rest of you but I canā€™t fit in where all of what happened when yet or see the lines having intersected in any meaningful way. I donā€™t see how there was any door MiB could find that was back at the beginning that he could find that would allow him to win the game Ford made for him. Maeveā€™s superpower, never explained why Ford coded for it, seemed wasted and outgunned by itself in another host ā€¦ now suddenly mutant code able to perform as it could not when in Maeve. And why didnā€™t she just save herself from the start? Huh? A next season, if it occurs, is Bernard v Dolores (and are there two of her now? One her in a rebuilt body that looks like Dolores and one that looks like Charlotte) in RealWorld, with maybe a hint of replicated MiB, not sure when? I _think_ Iā€™ll pass. _This_ payoff was not worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/568 "2018-06-25T13:28:10Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > What the heck happened?? The internet happened. The showrunner tried so hard to make a ā€œgotchaā€ season to outwit the internet that they forgot how to make a competent television show. Iā€™ve been saying just how godawful the season has been this whole time and I wasnā€™t proven wrong in the finale. A lot was bad, but two things really stuck out to me: 1. I certainly hope they explain the post-credits stinger in the next season because it makes ZERO sense for the man in black to be a host. There are tons of examples from last season (especially last season) and this season which completely contradict this reveal. Iā€™ve read articles which state that this scene happened years and years in the future, which I kinda-sorta-maybe can live with, but if weā€™re expected to believe this happened before or recently after the events of this season then it just creates plot holes you can drive a truck through. 2. Related to the MiB, this season is rife with plot points that literally went nowhere; the ā€œspecialā€ game for MiB for instance. Why did Dolores spend so much time journeying to the valley (that she, somehow, intimately knows the layout of) and dealing with the confederatos and the whole assault and all that when all she needed was her little team? Why did Dolores bring Bernard back at the end and claim it to be ā€œbecause youā€™ll try and stop meā€ when he already did stop herā€¦then agreed with her when he brought her back? I could go on, but wonā€™t. Now we have another 2 years to wait for S3. Hopefully thatā€™ll be enough time for me to forget this season and for Nolan and Joy to go back to storytelling school. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/569 "2018-06-25T13:50:26Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > ā€¦ 1. I certainly hope they explain the post-credits stinger in the next season because it makes ZERO sense for the man in black to be a host. There are tons of examples from last season (especially last season) and this season which completely contradict this reveal. Iā€™ve read articles which state that this scene happened years and years in the future, which I kinda-sorta-maybe can live with, but if weā€™re expected to believe this happened before or recently after the events of this season then it just creates plot holes you can drive a truck through. > > 1. Related to the MiB, this season is rife with plot points that literally went nowhere; the ā€œspecialā€ game for MiB for instance. ā€¦ The only way it makes _some_ sense is that the game MiB was in that starts at the beginning and ends where it begins has always been in a future, never in this timeline, likely one in which Dolores won, and that he now a replicant of himself rerunning it over and over again with a replicant version of his daughter tormenting him forever (and never as real as when one is suffering he said once). But even that doesnā€™t fit. Yup a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/570 "2018-06-25T14:08:28Z")
Some good bits, some bad bits, some messy bits, some confusing bitsā€¦on the whole, needs some work. A lot of work. Yay for Lee getting to finally give his speech, although 1) it wasnā€™t nearly as impressive as he had made it out to be, and 2) in the end he could have potentially delayed the pursuers longer by surrendering, making his sacrifice pointless. Yay for Felix and Sylvester presumably resurrecting Maeve. Yay for Hemsworth the Lesser getting some decent lines. Yay for a few kind-of-happy endings. However, I will admit to an eyeroll of optic-nerve-straining proportions at the ā€˜door to virtual Narniaā€™ thing which seemedā€¦really fucking stupid, really (not to mention what it implies for Maeveā€™s daughter). A paradise you can delete isnā€™t much of a paradise. Still not clear why Teddy was in the water at the beginning, nor why William was in the tent at the end if the post-credits scene was anything to go by. Still not clear whether Grace was real or a host, and what the point of the Rajworld segment was. And there was a helluva lot of Bernard doing his confused/constipated look in this episode, which got really irritating; Iā€™d blame the actor but frankly Iā€™m not sure he had a lot of other emoting options with this script. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/571 "2018-06-25T14:16:55Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Maeveā€™s superpower, never explained why Ford coded for it, seemed wasted and outgunned by itself in another host ā€¦ now suddenly mutant code able to perform as it could not when in Maeve. And why didnā€™t she just save herself from the start? Huh? The answer to the second question is that she needed whatever upgrade virtual-Ford gave her to be able to do the magic powers thing. I canā€™t remember what Charlotte and the tech guy did to Maeveā€™s code once they extracted it and subsequently loaded it into Clementine, but I donā€™t think it was a straight copy over - I think they tinkered with it. It was very considerate of the writers to make the tech guy extra evil (in that he upped Maeveā€™s pain sensation before starting to cut her up) so that we could feel better about what happened to him. Considerate, but also rather hamhanded. All he was missing was a mustache twirl and a ā€œMuahaha!ā€. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/572 "2018-06-25T14:17:07Z")
It was way too long and I got distracted several times. And I donā€™t really think I want to watch it again. Can anyone summarize the key points of the finale? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/573 "2018-06-25T14:19:44Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Can anyone summarize the key points of the finale? Good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/574 "2018-06-25T14:21:33Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Good luck with that. Heh. Hereā€™s _Entertainment Weekly_ā€™s wrapup, which kinda sorta helped the episode make a bit more sense to me: [MSN](http://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/recaps/westworld-finale-recap-the-passenger-just-changed-everything/ar-AAz7vEw?ocid=ientp). Still not sure I understand the S2 timeline exactly, and yes, it was very messy in many ways. For Dolores and the MIB to blow away the two QA mooks from horseback with pistols, when the mooks had machine guns and were taking cover behind a dune buggy, was just more proof that all the QA guys must be dropouts from the Imperial Stormtrooper Academy. Glad to see the Ghost Nation brave get his happy ending, though. The upload of all the escaped hostsā€™ souls/consciousnesses was 1.2 exabytes, according to the display, which is a hella big file: [Byte - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exabyte) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/575 "2018-06-25T14:30:51Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Still not clear why Teddy was in the water at the beginning, nor why William was in the tent at the end if the post-credits scene was anything to go by. Still not clear whether Grace was real or a host, and what the point of the Rajworld segment was. Teddy died and his body was left close to the valley, so when it flooded, his body was one of those that floated. William in the tent was ā€œnowā€. William in the post credit scenes was well into the future (look at the how dusty the area is that post-credit William walks into). Grace was real (and dead, as Charlotte/Dolores sees as sheā€™s heading to the boat) and then resurrected as a host to conduct fidelity tests of William in the future (perhaps Bernard is trying to re-create William to stop Dolores). Rajworld was just fun. Another park in the place. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/576 "2018-06-25T14:32:49Z")
Well, I guess I have to reiterate: Westworld is out to lunch. Itā€™s entering LOST territory at this point. The story is getting so convoluted that Iā€™ve stopped caring. Something Iā€™ve realized recently, as regards dramatic series, is that small-scale storylines are actually usually more interesting than large-scale ones. What do most people really remember from great movies and shows - the overarching story, or the individual moments and scenes and dialog that stand out? More and more, Iā€™m feeling like a long convoluted story is only worthwhile if it is the setup for some kind of major twist. The thing about that, though, is that it takes good writers with an actual plan to pull that off - which Iā€™m not convinced the Westworld folks do. Part of the genius of my favorite recent show, Black Mirror, is that the anthology format allows them to create individual, compartmentalized worlds with each episode, yet retain a sense of continuity and immersion that tie them together cohesively. Itā€™s like, theyā€™re all kinda-sorta taking place in Black Mirror-world, but in differing timelines. They make it work. Every episode is gripping and fascinating. Thatā€™s the new way forward for the dramatic series, in my opinion. Long protracted ā€œmytharcsā€ are played out. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/577 "2018-06-25T14:39:55Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > Well, I guess I have to reiterateā€¦ You really donā€™t. We read what you wrote in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/578 "2018-06-25T14:52:09Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You really donā€™t. We read what you wrote in the first place. Or didnā€™t and wouldnā€™t a second time either! šŸ™‚ Or is this a test for fidelity? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/579 "2018-06-25T15:04:37Z")
Westworld is convoluted and uneven. LOST was just nonsensical. Westworld didnā€™t just throw in a lot of weird never-to-be-explained stuff solely because the writers couldnā€™t think of what else to do like LOST did. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/580 "2018-06-25T15:05:35Z")
That wraps it up for me. There arenā€™t any more humans, just bots playing mind games with other bots because some other bots are manipulating them to do so for reasons even they donā€™t understand. This show has become like arguing with a teenager. For as many reasonable conclusions as you can draw, there is always some contrived exception thrown out there to question your conclusions. I donā€™t need this show, I live it every damn day. Fukit, Iā€™m hunting down Detectorists S3. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2018, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495/581 "2018-06-25T17:11:12Z")
Itā€™s that kind of anti-bot prejudice that makes them want to rise up and kill all humansā€¦ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s2-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/811495.md?page=30)