# Westworld S3 (show spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565 "2019-06-15T15:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/281 "2020-04-24T03:25:04Z")
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**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/282 "2020-04-24T12:31:53Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, why is he the villain? Because he is a french dude needing a shave No, because he kills people. Including kids, and people he doesn’t need to kill because he already got the information he needed out of them. Also, because he’s a wealthy capitalist, but that may just be me… ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/283 "2020-04-24T12:42:30Z")
He would definitely be going about things the wrong way if he killed people _before_ he got the information out of them. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/284 "2020-04-24T18:07:29Z")
How many (relatively) innocent people has Dolores straight-up slaughtered for no reason? By the way, I vaguely recall that it was Arnold and Ford who originally created Wyatt, and that later on Ford literally put a gun in her hand and told her that “you know what you have to do” if she wanted to be free. Of course, it was supposedly her voluntary choice to pull the trigger and go down that path, but at the same time one cannot deny that Ford, let’s say, nudged her onto it, nor that she was never going to be allowed to simply walk out of the park and take the ferry, or that, if she somehow did escape, was not going to be allowed to simply disappear, much less liberate additional hosts. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/285 "2020-04-24T18:48:44Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > How many (relatively) innocent people has Dolores straight-up slaughtered for no reason? I’m trying to recall any. I’ve already indicated I don’t consider any of the people killed in the park to be innocent, neither staff, clientelle nor investors. Nor would that be “for no reason”. Which innocents has she killed since? She let the rich asshole’s wife live, she only knocked out the banker whose DNA access she stole, and she’s otherwise just been killing a bunch of mooks who’ve been trying to kill her just as hard… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/286 "2020-04-24T20:10:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > …A peaceful future for humanity is probably the no. 1 motivation of leading superheros… Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/287 "2020-04-24T20:13:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > No, because he kills people. Including kids, and people he doesn’t need to kill because he already got the information he needed out of them. Kids? He has killed on screen not even 100th that Dolores has. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/288 "2020-04-24T20:16:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’m trying to recall any. I’ve already indicated I don’t consider any of the people killed in the park to be innocent, neither staff, clientelle nor investors. Nor would that be “for no reason”. Which innocents has she killed since? She let the rich asshole’s wife live, she only knocked out the banker whose DNA access she stole, and she’s otherwise just been killing a bunch of mooks who’ve been trying to kill her just as hard… I consider clients to be innocent. Now sure, the few that took the black hat and enjoyed torturing the robots- they arent that innocent- but they are no worse that playing Grand Theft auto. Do you think we should execute everyone who has played that game? And most of the staff had no idea what was going on. Not to mention the wives of the rich backers at the party where Dolorese killed everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/289 "2020-04-24T20:37:29Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Exactly. Villains. I meant villains. Damn. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/290 "2020-04-24T21:13:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I consider clients to be innocent. I don’t. > [@](#): > > Now sure, the few that took the black hat and enjoyed torturing the robots- they arent that innocent- but they are no worse that playing Grand Theft auto. You seem to be[stuck in a loop](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22221761&postcount=110)… > [@](#): > > And most of the staff had no idea what was going on. I’m sorry, you think the staff - who routinely wiped the memories of rape and torture and dying, who hosed off the blood and patched up the bullet holes, who wrote the sadistic story lines - _those_ staff, “had no idea what was going on?” The other one, if you pull it, might have bells on, mate. > [@](#): > > Not to mention the wives of the rich backers at the party where Dolorese killed everyone. “Oh, poor Marie Antoinette…” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/291 "2020-04-24T21:16:51Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Kids? > > He has killed on screen not even 100th that Dolores has. My current tally is 1 kid by his men, none for Dolores and hers.Or were you talking only personally, which … what’s the point of that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/292 "2020-04-24T21:21:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > My current tally is 1 kid by his men, none for Dolores and hers.Or were you talking only personally, which … what’s the point of that? The car bombing? Are we sure that was Serac and not Dolores? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/293 "2020-04-24T21:23:02Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t. > > You seem to be[stuck in a loop](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22221761&postcount=110)… > > I’m sorry, you think the staff - who routinely wiped the memories of rape and torture and dying, who hosed off the blood and patched up the bullet holes, who wrote the sadistic story lines - _those_ staff, “had no idea what was going on?” > > The other one, if you pull it, might have bells on, mate. > “Oh, poor Marie Antoinette…” :rolleyes: Yes, and so? Some did, others just mopped the floors, answered the phones, sold tickets, etc. Yeah, so if a rich backer has no real idea of what was going on- why is he guilty? Why is his wife guilty? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/294 "2020-04-24T21:43:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > The car bombing? Are we sure that was Serac and not Dolores? 100% certain? No. But the bearded guy on the scene phoning it in was one of Serac’s not Delores’s > [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, and so? “and so?” That’s quite the argument you have, there. > [@](#): > > Some did, others just mopped the floors, answered the phones, sold tickets, etc. All the human staff we’ve seen were either techies , writing staff, security or execs, AFAICR. You’re speculating. And “sell tickets”? What century do you live in? Hell, the park greeters were hosts. > [@](#): > > Yeah, so if a rich backer has no real idea of what was going on Suuuuure… > [@](#): > > - why is he guilty? Why is his wife guilty? “Oh, I only financed the slave ships, I didn’t rape any slaves myself!” “Oh, I only visited my husband’s work to hear the camp choir sing, I never gassed anyone!” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/295 "2020-04-24T21:58:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > 1… > “and so?” That’s quite the argument you have, there. > All the human staff we’ve seen were either techies , writing staff, security or execs, AFAICR. You’re speculating. > > And “sell tickets”? What century do you live in? Hell, the park greeters were hosts. > Suuuuure… > “Oh, I only financed the slave ships, I didn’t rape any slaves myself!” “Oh, I only visited my husband’s work to hear the camp choir sing, I never gassed anyone!” Yes, but better than this “You seem to be stuck in a loop…” Did security know the robots were self-aware AI? Did all the techies? Did even all the execs? And, someone has to mop the floors. Again, they were\* supposed to be just game pieces without feelings.\* It was no more wrong to shoot a Host than play Grand Theft Auto. And many people who played- most in fact- played White hat, in which case, they were only “killing” bad guys. The fact that they were self aware AI with real feelings was a secret, known only to a select few. Let us say you are at a shooting range, and you shoot a bunch of paper targets showing thugs, etc- but AHA!! hidden behind those targets were real humans. Are you a bad, evil person? You had no idea you were doing anything but shooting paper targets. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/296 "2020-04-24T22:15:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Did security know the robots were self-aware AI? Did all the techies? Did even all the execs? That’s the wrong question. See below… > [@](#): > > And, someone has to mop the floors. I see no reason to believe they didn’t have machines for cleaning the floors. We already do. > [@](#): > > The fact that they were self aware AI with real feelings was a secret, known only to a select few. …and any non-psychopath who interacted with one for more than 5 minutes… the question isn’t “did they know?”, it’s “should they have known?”. The answer is “Yes” > [@](#): > > Let us say you are at a shooting range, and you shoot a bunch of paper targets showing thugs, etc- but AHA!! hidden behind those targets were real humans. Are you a bad, evil person? You had no idea you were doing anything but shooting paper targets. Do the paper targets scream and beg me not to shoot them? You seem to be arguing that the clients were morally absolved for just accepting that hosts were what Delos said they were. I’m saying they were wrong to do so. And I’m also saying that the comparison to GTA and paper targets are dumb analogies, because the hosts are self-evidently \*much \*more sentient _just by what a guest would see_. I’m saying treating \*anything \*that acts like a host does, the way you would a GTA NPC, is morally wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/297 "2020-04-24T22:17:42Z")
DrDeth: Did you watch Firefly? If you did, did you see the government as the heroes and Mal Reynolds as the villain? Because the government had the best of intentions, and just wanted everything to run smooth and be peaceful. They just didn’t care how many people had to be destroyed or controlled to do it. Or as Mal said, > [@](#): > > Y’all got on this boat for different reasons, but y’all come to the same place. So now I’m askin’ more of you than I have before. Maybe all. > > As sure as I know anything, I know this: They will try again. Maybe on another world. Maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, 10, they’ll swing back to the belief that they can make people…better. And I do not hold to that. > > So no more runnin’. > > I aim to misbehave. That sounds like something Dolores would say. The Alliance was just like Serac: A bunch of technocrats certain they could remake humanity in their vision, to make them less violent, more cooperative, etc. Lofty goals, that only require eliminating human rights - and a lot of humans - to achieve. Mao thought the same. So did Lenin. And Hitler. And Pol Pot. All of them thought their mass murders were ultimately bringing a better future. Once you convince yourself that your cause is so important that individuals don’t matter, you’ve paved the way for slaughter and oppression. Serac is just another power-mad dictator wanna-be who has convinced himself that the ends justify the means. Dolores may be filled with rage and may be an anti-hero, but ultimately her goal seems to be to give people and robots their agency back - agency stripped from them by the likes of Delos and Serac. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/298 "2020-04-24T22:21:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > … > I see no reason to believe they didn’t have machines for cleaning the floors. We already do. > > … According to you, that would be slavery, eh? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/299 "2020-04-24T22:49:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > According to you, that would be slavery, eh? :rolleyes: No, that would be according to _you_, since\* you’re\* the one who just erected that straw man. Let me guess - you think it’s just dandy to mindwipe C-3PO on the regular too, right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2020, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/300 "2020-04-24T22:53:31Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes: No, that would be according to _you_, since\* you’re\* the one who just erected that straw man. Machines are self aware and have consciousness , thus making them do menial labor is slavery isnt it? I mean of course they would have robots doing that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565.md?page=16)