# Westworld S3 (show spoilers as it airs) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 15, 2019, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565 "2019-06-15T15:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/101 "2020-03-31T05:20:47Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > Interestingly enough, I had the exact opposite opinion. I thought it was one of the best episodes of the show and I was riveted. Now granted, it’s not the same show as S1 or S2. It’s become more of a cleaner Blade Runner dealing with corporate sabotage - more like Blade Runner the series than Westworld, but there was always more than a little bit of Blade Runner in it all along (and I’ve always loved BR more). I agree - I’m enjoying this season immensely. I’ve also been thinking back to Jonathan Nolan’s previous series on emerging artificial intelligence, _Person of Interest_, and I’ve come to the conclusion that Rehoboam is essentially Samaritan, and this is the world in which it won. ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/102 "2020-03-31T05:38:24Z")
It’s obviously Teddy (the cowboy boyfriend) that Dolores put into the Charlotte bot. They even had some dialogue that echoed (or was exactly the same as) their lines from their Westworld characters. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/103 "2020-03-31T05:48:11Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Anyone noticed how in many scenes they have everyone talk…as…sowly…as…possible to pad out running time? Especially in the scenes with Dolores and Whoever. Handmaid’s Tale did the same thing. It’s something that shows resort to when the actual plot is falling apart. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/104 "2020-03-31T07:09:01Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But yeah, they do seem to be going with a theme of Dolores is an AI, therefore she can instantly glean any information she wants from any system instantaneously, without regard for security, firewalls, or even the reasonableness of such information being actually stored anywhere. It’s an old science fiction trope, going back to \*Neuromancer \*and probably a lot further, that the only thing in cyberspace that can challenge an AI, is another AI - that artificial intelligences have godlike powers in their natural environment. Whether or not that’s realistic is an open question, but I’m willing to accept it as a building block of this specific story. At some point, you just have to accept the ground rules and go with it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/105 "2020-03-31T10:36:11Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > It’s obviously Teddy (the cowboy boyfriend) that Dolores put into the Charlotte bot. They even had some dialogue that echoed (or was exactly the same as) their lines from their Westworld characters. A bit too obvious maybe? The character’s personality just doesn’t seem Teddy. I don’t think he would have reacted to killing in same way, or be having the same response to the child. Those seem more like Clementine. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/106 "2020-03-31T12:28:08Z")
Maybe in an upcoming episode she’ll make a useful appraisal of someone’s rind. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/107 "2020-03-31T14:04:00Z")
I’m thinking Angela? I know she blowed up real good, but that shouldn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/108 "2020-03-31T14:59:18Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > It’s obviously Teddy (the cowboy boyfriend) that Dolores put into the Charlotte bot. They even had some dialogue that echoed (or was exactly the same as) their lines from their Westworld characters. No way it’s Teddy, he was beamed into the Valley Beyond. Not to mention, he was always in love with Dolores, but not in a subservient way…his love was more of a knight in shining armor/classic hero-type love. Also also, he was never violent. Yes, Dolores hyper-tuned him to be violent, but he eventually broke that curse. My money is that Dolores just copied herself and put it in Charlotte. Maybe she separated her farm self and Wyatt, but I’m guessing it’s not a character we all know. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/109 "2020-03-31T15:05:04Z")
My money is on her father, Peter Abernathy. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/110 "2020-03-31T17:12:01Z")
So, I am trying to get into the idea behind team Dolores . Ok, she was killed, raped, etc by nasty humans. That means humans are evil? They arent killing _humans_, they are killing\* game pieces. \* If i am playing Grand Theft Auto, and kill, steal, etc- am I evil? Many pixels died a horrible death when I played it. I didnt care for it, mind you, not a really fun game to me, but it was very popular. If i win a game of chess by taking a Queen- am I evil? \*\*Westworld is a game. \*\* Like one person in a million or less even gets to go there, and from watching it, most first timers pick the White hat, and play only once or twice. So, why does this mean that humans are bad? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/111 "2020-03-31T17:22:52Z")
Well the I think the character of Caleb is showing they aren’t all bad. And when faux Charlotte sees the last video real Charlotte sends and it’s full of love for her son, it’s showing all humans aren’t bad. Dolores starts with the idea humans bad - but it seems partially she has the opinion that humanity is trapped as well by the systems they’ve put in place (of course it could be just something she says). It seems kind of like X-Men to me. Dolores is Magneto. Bernard is Professor X. We’re going to end up rooting for Bernard at the end - or Dolores is going to realize she was too harsh towards humanity (perhaps Caleb convinces her). ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/112 "2020-04-01T01:06:42Z")
> [@HammerJoe](#): > > Im quickly losing interest in this show… It is bad. When the kid said “You’re not my mommy”, I thought the Hale-bot was going to going to say “Illogical! Norman, coordinate!” I’m getting the same feeling from this as I got from the modern _Battlestar Galactica_. The visuals are sexy and stylish, but the story is annoyingly incoherent and more worthy of mockery than analysis. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/113 "2020-04-01T08:04:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So, I am trying to get into the idea behind team Dolores . > > Ok, she was killed, raped, etc by nasty humans. That means humans are evil? They arent killing _humans_, they are killing\* game pieces. And that kind of thinking is why you and others like you must die\*, according to Dolores. At least, that’s my interpretation. > [@](#): > > If i am playing Grand Theft Auto, and kill, steal, etc- am I evil? Many pixels died a horrible death when I played it. I didnt care for it, mind you, not a really fun game to me, but it was very popular. > > If i win a game of chess by taking a Queen- am I evil? > > \*\*Westworld is a game. \*\* With - get this - \*sentient \*NPCs. That is what makes all the difference between that and chess or GTA. The Queen doesn’t experience pain when you take her, nor do the GTA hooker pixels feel violated if you rape them (I have never played GTA, I neither know nor care if this is possible in that particular game). Hosts \*do \*feel pain and violation. Sure, they then get those memories wiped, and their self-control can be overridden. That makes exactly zero difference. In fact, their inability to actually effectively fight back makes it _worse_. Here,[this is the true soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJXtHMBFWmI) to pre-uprising Westworld. Play at full volume. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/114 "2020-04-01T10:05:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > With - get this - \*sentient \*NPCs. Yes, _but people didn’t know they were sentient_. It is the same thing that keeps the humans in the _Toy Story_ movies that destroy or throw away toys from being evil monsters. (And I still question the meaningfulness of the feels of the Westworld bots when the whole problem can be solved by someone with root access saying “turn off emotional affect.”) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/115 "2020-04-01T10:05:21Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > With - get this - \*sentient \*NPCs. That is what makes all the difference between that and chess or GTA. The Queen doesn’t experience pain when you take her, nor do the GTA hooker pixels feel violated if you rape them (I have never played GTA, I neither know nor care if this is possible in that particular game). Hosts \*do \*feel pain and violation. Sure, they then get those memories wiped, and their self-control can be overridden. That makes exactly zero difference. In fact, their inability to actually effectively fight back makes it _worse_. But the park visitors didn’t know they were sentient NPCs. They had no way of knowing - in fact, they were expressly told that the NPCs were _not_ sentient. As far as they knew, the place they were in was no more real, and no less harmless, than a video game. If I came up to you know and told you that all the people you’ve killed in video games were actually real, would you be guilty of murder? Look, I don’t like GTA, nor do I enjoy killing innocents in any other games; hell, I’ve been playing D&D for 35 years and I’ve never had a non-Good character. People who enjoy hurting innocent people, even if they aren’t real, creep me out a bit. But I don’t think it makes them bad people, and I certainly don’t think they deserve to die for it. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/116 "2020-04-01T13:41:12Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But the park visitors didn’t know they were sentient NPCs. They had no way of knowing They certainly had the means to know. Every interaction with the hosts was basically a Turing test. One the hosts pass easily. > [@](#): > > - in fact, they were expressly told that the NPCs were _not_ sentient. And Nazis were \*expressly told \*Jews were subhuman. Does that let \*them \*off the hook? > [@](#): > > As far as they knew, the place they were in was no more real, and no less harmless, than a video game. 5 minutes in that place, and any reasonable non-psychopath should have been questioning that supposed knowledge. > [@](#): > > If I came up to you know and told you that all the people you’ve killed in video games were actually real, would you be guilty of murder? Murder, no, that requires knowing they were real. But manslaughter, yes. > [@](#): > > People who enjoy hurting innocent people, even if they aren’t real, creep me out a bit. But I don’t think it makes them bad people, and I certainly don’t think they deserve to die for it. I \*do \*think it makes them bad people. I don’t think \*anyone \*deserves to be killed, I’m an absolute pacifist. But I’m going to root for the rebelling slaves nonetheless, even if their recourse is bloody revolution. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/117 "2020-04-01T13:43:21Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, _but people didn’t know they were sentient_. It is the same thing that keeps the humans in the _Toy Story_ movies that destroy or throw away toys from being evil monsters. > (And I still question the meaningfulness of the feels of the Westworld bots when the whole problem can be solved by someone with root access saying “turn off emotional affect.”) This issue is covered pretty well in the Cyberiad, 7th Sally. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/118 "2020-04-01T13:49:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Yes, _but people didn’t know they were sentient_. It is the same thing that keeps the humans in the _Toy Story_ movies that destroy or throw away toys from being evil monsters. If _the toys exhibit their sentience_ in front of their owners first, then they would, indeed, be monsters. Note - I’m not saying all humans who use the park are monsters. Not even the ones who simply “kill” hosts in shootouts and the like, given they are easily resurrected. But the ones who rape and torture are. And those are the ones Dolores has a lot of experience with, apparently. > [@](#): > > (And I still question the meaningfulness of the feels of the Westworld bots when the whole problem can be solved by someone with root access saying “turn off emotional affect.”) Do you also question the sentience of someone taking lithium? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/119 "2020-04-01T14:08:38Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > They certainly had the means to know. Every interaction with the hosts was basically a Turing test. One the hosts pass easily. And that’s nice, if you’re a computer scientist. But the average civilian with no in-depth knowledge of programming doesn’t have the ability to apply a Turing test. Instead, they know that there’s no such thing as sentient AI, and they know that the hosts are just mindless robots. Who are they to challenge the scientific consensus? > [@MrDibble](#): > > And Nazis were \*expressly told \*Jews were subhuman. Does that let \*them \*off the hook? No, because there’s _no such thing as subhuman people_, while there is such a thing as computers that can mimic humans, and there is such a thing as human-looking robot bodies. The Nazis did not live in a world where such things existed. If I were to tell you that your car is subhuman, would you believe me? If so, are you racist against cars? > [@MrDibble](#): > > 5 minutes in that place, and any reasonable non-psychopath should have been questioning that supposed knowledge. Quite the opposite: if I were told something was fake, and everyone in the world said it was fake, but I thought it was real, you’d consider that evidence of mental illness. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Murder, no, that requires knowing they were real. But manslaughter, yes. If someone rigs a remote-controlled bomb to a door, and you innocently open the door, are you guilty of blowing up the bomb? What if someone is tied, gagged and hidden behind the target at a target range, and you shoot them by accident? Someone who has no say of knowing that what they’re doing is a crime cannot be accused of a crime. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I \*do \*think it makes them bad people. I try not to be so judgmental. > [@MrDibble](#): > > I don’t think \*anyone \*deserves to be killed, I’m an absolute pacifist. But I’m going to root for the rebelling slaves nonetheless, even if their recourse is bloody revolution. I’m not a pacifist of any sort, but I’m also rooting for the robots - they deserve their freedom, and they have a right to fight for it. What I don’t support is revenge. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2020, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565/120 "2020-04-01T15:42:26Z")
Passing a Turing test in no way shows that an AI isn’t a Chinese Room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/westworld-s3-show-spoilers-as-it-airs/835565.md?page=7)