[QUOTE=lekatt]
If you are a person who has a real interest in learning about the spiritual world, then I am not the one to teach you. Because I am in the physical, and have the same limitations that you have. My job is to help others understand who they are and how this physical life works, so they can be happier and more peaceful.
I suggest you read the “Seth” books written/channeled by Jane Roberts. Here in these massive books of about one thousand pages each (8 of them) you will find everything you ever wanted to know about the spirit world and probably more than you wanted to know. They are a good read, very well written, books. I can’t remember which one I started with, but “The Eternal Validity of the Soul” is a good place to start.
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I do have a real interest in the concept of the spirit, and I was questioning the practice of describing the spriritual plane as though through human senses. Your link suggests that in a non-physical plane prior to birth one can ‘see’ light, darkness, people and other physical items, as if even without a body we have spiritual organs which act like physical eyes.
This isn’t a problem if you feel that man was made in God’s image - you can say that we are all human-shaped spirits, buoyant in the ether, waiting for our physical form to arise in the physical plane.
But for me it sounds philisophically shady, and suggests that people ‘channelling’ from the spiritual plane are manufacturing these visions from mundane physical reality.
[QUOTE=Staggerlee]
I do have a real interest in the concept of the spirit, and I was questioning the practice of describing the spriritual plane as though through human senses. Your link suggests that in a non-physical plane prior to birth one can ‘see’ light, darkness, people and other physical items, as if even without a body we have spiritual organs which act like physical eyes.
This isn’t a problem if you feel that man was made in God’s image - you can say that we are all human-shaped spirits, buoyant in the ether, waiting for our physical form to arise in the physical plane.
But for me it sounds philisophically shady, and suggests that people ‘channelling’ from the spiritual plane are manufacturing these visions from mundane physical reality.
[/QUOTE]
Maybe if I explain some it will help. We are energy, as pure energy we can take any form we choose. In the physical we become some form compatable to physical life. After the physical life is over many retain a spiritual body similar to their physical body. If there is to be communication between the spiritual and physical this is necessary. But our natural form is simply an orb. In the spiritual we have about the same senses as in the physical, lacking the sensation of touch there is another method of contact in the spiritual. Communication in the spiritual is by thought, movement is by thought, creation is by thought. Thoughts are very important and the whole reason for the physical in the first place is to help us understand that and train ourselves in a slower, linear environment.
Now God is the sum total of all energy, it/he/she is the life force of our being, and the glue that holds form together is love. Which is a natural attraction.
This reminds me of the big in ‘Salmon of Doubt’ taken from a Douglas Adams speech at a scientific summit of some sort. He didn’t quite take it that far, but he engaged in a line of speculation where he goes over the evolutionary pressures that have shaped ‘man the toolmaker’, what his mindset is with respect to the world around him, and what starts to happen as soon as he asks ‘okay, well who made the world then?’
[QUOTE=lekatt]
Maybe if I explain some it will help. We are energy, as pure energy we can take any form we choose. In the physical we become some form compatable to physical life. After the physical life is over many retain a spiritual body similar to their physical body. If there is to be communication between the spiritual and physical this is necessary. But our natural form is simply an orb. In the spiritual we have about the same senses as in the physical, lacking the sensation of touch there is another method of contact in the spiritual. Communication in the spiritual is by thought, movement is by thought, creation is by thought. Thoughts are very important and the whole reason for the physical in the first place is to help us understand that and train ourselves in a slower, linear environment.
Now God is the sum total of all energy, it/he/she is the life force of our being, and the glue that holds form together is love. Which is a natural attraction.
I will stop here.
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Thanks for that, it sounds lovely. However, I still have a problem with the whole thing. Things like the fact that chemicals or brain trauma affect the working of the mind suggest that the mind is dependent on a functioning brain - so I don’t believe that even thoughts as we conceive of them can exist beyond the physical realm. And the concept of an ‘orb’ - again, a 3D physical construct. To be frank, if spiritual people stopped describing the afterlife in mundane terms and just left it as ‘inconceivable’, I would actually find it more plausible.
[QUOTE=Staggerlee]
Thanks for that, it sounds lovely. However, I still have a problem with the whole thing. Things like the fact that chemicals or brain trauma affect the working of the mind suggest that the mind is dependent on a functioning brain - so I don’t believe that even thoughts as we conceive of them can exist beyond the physical realm. And the concept of an ‘orb’ - again, a 3D physical construct. To be frank, if spiritual people stopped describing the afterlife in mundane terms and just left it as ‘inconceivable’, I would actually find it more plausible.
But as I say, thanks.
[/QUOTE]
The mind is dependent on a fully functioning brain in order to manifest in the physical, but the mind is not damaged when the brain is damaged, it merely can no longer manifest in the damaged area. The mind or spirit is still whole.
This is an exciting age we live in, medical science is now capable of stopping hearts and brains to do surgery and then restarting them again. Sometimes this results in a near death experience. They can also resusitate people that would normally be dead. One such interesting experience was of a blind person who during the near death experience could see fine. This better illustrates how the mind is not affected by the problems of the body.
Someone mentioned that churches do not teach about the history of the Bible, who wrote the books, when they were written, how they became part of the Bible, and the difference of opinion many Bible scholars have concerning the Bible. This is the truth, they just don’t teach the whole truth.
It is also sad that science teachers don’t teach the whole truth either. About the foundations of theories and the material or lack of it these theories are based upon. The disagreements among scientists about many of the theories.
Both institutions don’t teach the whole truth, and furthermore each teaches a lot of questionable doctrine and dogma in order to keep the faithful believing their way is the only way.
I can’t say I really know where all the lies come from, but to say religion and spiritual things are non-existent and nonsense, that there is no evidence of God, this is all lies. Those believing these lies now will eventually come to learn the truth.
In religion many lies are also taught. The lie that you will go to hell if you don’t believe in a certain manner and act in a certain way.
Can’t you see these lies are for the benefit of the institutions only, and do harm to those naive enought to believe them.
If you want a real education you must teach yourself, follow every interest to its end, read hundreds of books, and don’t accept another’s truth until you have tried it on yourself.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
Maybe if I explain some it will help. We are energy, as pure energy we can take any form we choose. In the physical we become some form compatable to physical life. After the physical life is over many retain a spiritual body similar to their physical body. If there is to be communication between the spiritual and physical this is necessary. But our natural form is simply an orb. In the spiritual we have about the same senses as in the physical, lacking the sensation of touch there is another method of contact in the spiritual. Communication in the spiritual is by thought, movement is by thought, creation is by thought. Thoughts are very important and the whole reason for the physical in the first place is to help us understand that and train ourselves in a slower, linear environment.
Now God is the sum total of all energy, it/he/she is the life force of our being, and the glue that holds form together is love. Which is a natural attraction.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
Someone mentioned that churches do not teach about the history of the Bible, who wrote the books, when they were written, how they became part of the Bible, and the difference of opinion many Bible scholars have concerning the Bible. This is the truth, they just don’t teach the whole truth.
It is also sad that science teachers don’t teach the whole truth either. About the foundations of theories and the material or lack of it these theories are based upon. The disagreements among scientists about many of the theories.
[/QUOTE]
Science teachers at what level? In elementary school and junior high, most of what is taught is pretty much rock solid, with no major disputes. In high school some more unresolved stuff is taught, and by college, when teaching reaches the frontiers, the major sides of scientific arguments are certainly taught. When I learned about the demise of the dinosaurs, in the pre-asteroid days, no one tried to teach there was one true answer.
For some areas, like evolution, what is taught is so basic that there is no dispute.
If you are actually saying more time should be devoted to science education so students get an idea of what a wonderfully dynamic thing science is, then I agree totally.
In religion many lies are also taught. The lie that you will go to hell if you don’t believe in a certain manner and act in a certain way.
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To risk hijacking, Jesus did teach that, tho I don’t believe that the traditional view of Hell that has been extrapolated from His teachings was what He meant.
To the OP Title- I think it’s obvious that we Creationists are the higher-life forms!
(Technically, I believe the Evolutionists may be correct as to the mechanics, but when it comes to the reason behind the mechanics, I’m much closer to the six-day 6000-y/o Earthers.)
[QUOTE=Voyager]
Science teachers at what level? In elementary school and junior high, most of what is taught is pretty much rock solid, with no major disputes. In high school some more unresolved stuff is taught, and by college, when teaching reaches the frontiers, the major sides of scientific arguments are certainly taught. When I learned about the demise of the dinosaurs, in the pre-asteroid days, no one tried to teach there was one true answer.
For some areas, like evolution, what is taught is so basic that there is no dispute.
If you are actually saying more time should be devoted to science education so students get an idea of what a wonderfully dynamic thing science is, then I agree totally.
[/QUOTE]
No, not more time, just teach the truth the first time. Call a theory a theory, etc. Then you probably won’t have people singing the praises of science like you do on this board as if science was the only thing going. Well, in reality, I guess that will always happen anyway. Frightened people must have something to hang onto, religion, science, etc.
[QUOTE=FriarTed]
To risk hijacking, Jesus did teach that, tho I don’t believe that the traditional view of Hell that has been extrapolated from His teachings was what He meant.
To the OP Title- I think it’s obvious that we Creationists are the higher-life forms!
(Technically, I believe the Evolutionists may be correct as to the mechanics, but when it comes to the reason behind the mechanics, I’m much closer to the six-day 6000-y/o Earthers.)
[/QUOTE]
As to what is available about the subject, I believe Jesus was talking about the local garbage dump. Meaning do you want your life to be wasted or worthless.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
No, not more time, just teach the truth the first time. Call a theory a theory, etc. Then you probably won’t have people singing the praises of science like you do on this board as if science was the only thing going. Well, in reality, I guess that will always happen anyway. Frightened people must have something to hang onto, religion, science, etc.
[/QUOTE]
You mean theory as in theory as the highest level of confidence we have in a scientific conclusion? I sure hope they do, but I do appreciate that lots of science teaching is done by those who don’t understand it well enough. They might think that a theory as in “evolution is just a theory” is something to be ashamed of.
[QUOTE=Voyager]
You mean theory as in theory as the highest level of confidence we have in a scientific conclusion? I sure hope they do, but I do appreciate that lots of science teaching is done by those who don’t understand it well enough. They might think that a theory as in “evolution is just a theory” is something to be ashamed of.
So, which meaning of theory are you using?
[/QUOTE]
Not the one science made up. A theory is a belief, an educated guess, a learned opinion, but not evidence or proof.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
I have a very good understanding of science, and that’s why I am not bedazzled by it.
[/QUOTE]
Sorry, that assertion is contradicted by you saying that a theory is just a guess. It’s not like the definition of a theory hasn’t been covered many, many times already.
[QUOTE=lekatt]
As to what is available about the subject, I believe Jesus was talking about the local garbage dump. Meaning do you want your life to be wasted or worthless.
[/QUOTE]
Not just the “local” garbage dump, but the Cosmic Garbage Dump- Now, I believe that in the Fiery Hole of Hades (Luke 16), and the Aionian Fire prepared for the Devil and his angels, also called the Aionian Cutting-off (Matthew 25) there may be correction, repentance & eventual restoration to God through Jesus, but I also believe one may also confine oneself to Eternal Exile/Alienation from God & perhaps eventual destruction. That one’s beliefs & actions could result in dire & lengthy punishment in the Afterlife is quite clear from Jesus’s words.
[QUOTE=FriarTed]
Not just the “local” garbage dump, but the Cosmic Garbage Dump- Now, I believe that in the Fiery Hole of Hades (Luke 16), and the Aionian Fire prepared for the Devil and his angels, also called the Aionian Cutting-off (Matthew 25) there may be correction, repentance & eventual restoration to God through Jesus, but I also believe one may also confine oneself to Eternal Exile/Alienation from God & perhaps eventual destruction. That one’s beliefs & actions could result in dire & lengthy punishment in the Afterlife is quite clear from Jesus’s words.
[/QUOTE]
You can read anything into and out of the Bible you want. It has been interpretated by billions of people and produce thousands of variations of Christianity. Can’t believe in devil and demons, nor something like eternal pain and suffering. Been there and seen it. Focus on Jesus’ teachings of love one another. That is all that is necessary.
