# We've Just Lost a Shuttle! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 1, 2003, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097 "2003-02-01T14:41:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/201 "2003-02-01T19:34:47Z")
I was a senior in high school in 1986. I found out in study hall. I can still remember to this day the exact spot where I was in the cafeteria and my exact reaction: total shock and disbelief. I just couldn’t accept that such an accident could happen. I don’t feel that sense of shock this time. Although there have been the attempts to make us believe that space travel is now “routine”, I don’t think it can ever become so, and I don’t think anyone involved thinks it is routine. Instead I feel simple grief. I listen to “Lightning Crashes” and Mahler’s “Resurrection” symphony, and I pray for the families left behind. > [@](#): > > A bundle of tempestuous cloud is blown > About the sky; where that is clear of cloud > Brightness remains; a brighter star shoots down; > What shudders run through all that animal blood? > What is this sacrifice? Can someone there > Recall the Cretan barb that pierced a star? Parnell’s Funeral, W.B Yeats ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/202 "2003-02-01T19:36:18Z")
As **Slainte** said, I never thought I’d be experiencing this _twice_ in a lifetime. I think, however, after hearing Brian Williams talk about finding body parts, it may be time to turn off the TV. **Hodge** , I was reminded of that poem too, as well as President Reagan’s words following the _Challenger_ disaster. A little sidebar: John Gillespie Magee was an American who enlisted in the Royal Canadian Air Force to fight in the Battle of Britain. He penned that poem following a high-altitude test flight in a Spitfire V. Three months later, he was killed in a mid-air collision. He tried to bail out, but was too low for his parachute to open. He was only 19 years old when he died. Now back to your regularly scheduled news updates from the Teemings… ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/203 "2003-02-01T19:42:28Z")
I was given a “word a day” calendar by my former voice teacher just prior to my leaving town. Today’s word – Valhalla. Weird, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/204 "2003-02-01T19:43:50Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s pretty sad, and also irresponsible, that the media is even suggesting terrorism. Accidents do still happen. I don’t think the media _is_ suggesting that (or ever were), and if anything, they’re saying is that terrorism is very unlikely and nearly impossible. The fact that the media has brought up the word ‘terrorism’ in their coverage of this event does not make them irresponsible, but just the opposite. Obviously from the early posts in this thread, people were thinking about the possiblity of terrorists, and so the media is just trying to put that thought out of people’s minds. I hope this rambling was coherent, as I’m a little sad right now. My heart goes out to the astronauts family and friends, and to everyone else touched by this. ☹ Happy ---
**Author:** ![Splanky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b2d939/32.png) [@Splanky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splanky)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/205 "2003-02-01T19:48:10Z")
This is so terrible. I’ve been following this since 9:30 this morning. Ilan Ramon was a great hero to Israelis and Jews like myself, and it’s devastating to hear about this. They did a great thing to science, and unfortunatly they did it with the risk of accident present. I’m glad this wasn’t an act of terror. God bless the Columbus crew members and their family. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/206 "2003-02-01T19:57:23Z")
My prayers go out to the family of the Columbus crew. I have been getting weepy over this. I hate this. I still remember when Challenger blew up. Like others here, I remember where I was and how I found out. (I was in my sister’s driveway—was giving her a ride to pottery class, she came out to the driveway and announced the news.) I cried then, I cry now. ---
**Author:** ![Epistaxis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ebca7d/32.png) [@Epistaxis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epistaxis)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/207 "2003-02-01T20:05:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SC\_Wolf \* > \*\*I’m actually somewhat relieved that a search for “Columbia Debris” on ebay turns no hits at this time. Makes me think there’s some hope for the human race yet. \*\* There are, however, LOTS of Columbia memorabilia/collectibles that have incredibly just gone on sale today :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/208 "2003-02-01T20:10:45Z")
My whole school was watching when Challenger exploded. I was about 10 or 11 at the time. Today, I heard about Columbia on the radio while I was on my way to a doctor’s appointment. I’m sad but, as others have already said, space travel is extremely risky, so accidents are going to happen from time to time. One think I’m wondering is: 4 of the 7 crewmen had never been in space before, and 2 of the other 3 had only flown once before. Could this be relevant? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/209 "2003-02-01T20:18:34Z")
I better add that I’m not accusing anyone of incompetence or anything like that. I’m just wondering if the experience level of the crew was normal for a shuttle flight… ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/210 "2003-02-01T20:31:45Z")
What a way to de-lurk… I happen to be in Europe right now and I just found out a few hours after it happened when I saw this thread. Unreal. I am still in shock. One thing I will note on the positive side, a poll on Netscape ([www.netscape.com](http://www.netscape.com)) shows the following: \*\*Poll: In light of the tragedy, the space program should: Continue despite the risks.88% Continue with only unmanned missions. 7% Be abandoned. It’s too dangerous. 6% ---
**Author:** ![Santos\_L\_Halper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/santos_l_halper/32/1_2.png) [@Santos\_L\_Halper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santos_L_Halper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/211 "2003-02-01T20:32:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hodge \* > \*\*Officer John G. Magee, 1941 \*\* It always chokes me up to read that. A few months after writing that poem, Magee was killed in his Spitfire, he was 19. Here’s a [bio](http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/prewwii/jgm.htm). Eric ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/212 "2003-02-01T20:33:51Z")
Whoops…posted before I was finished… Anyways, I wanted to say that it is gratifying to see that the American people still support the space program despite the tragedy of today. God be with all of the families of those brave astronauts. – Doctor ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/213 "2003-02-01T20:34:50Z")
I saw the STS-4 launch while visiting cousins in Florida when I was 13 years old. I found it really inspiring, and went on to become, as they say, a rocket scientist. Two weeks ago I was in Florida attending meetings at a rocket engine manufacturer and the last morning, we suspended the meeting to go out to the parking lot to watch STS-107 take off. Events like the loss of _Columbia_ serve to remind us all that flight is still a dangerous business - and more importantly, to recall that the astronauts are more aware than anyone of the risks. It’s easy to appreciate their courage because their purpose is peaceful and noble. The example they set is so valuable to humanity. Now that the risks of spaceflight are in everyone’s mind, we ought to consider whether the risks are worth it. After all, the shuttle only goes into low earth orbit, and the scientific gain has never lived up to the claims that were used to sell the shuttle to Congress. My own opinion is that it is worth it, because of the heroic example the astronauts set for everyone, and I would go further and say that more, not less, risk should be taken. (Risky missions and programs, not technical risk like what led to the _Challenger_ disaster.) We should set our sights higher, and send humans back to the moon, to Mars, to any place people are curious about. There is no shortage of people willing to make it happen, just a shortage of vision and will in Washington. That’s my rational response. My irrational response is first, sadness for the families of those lost, and second, sadness at the loss of _Columbia_ itself. That ship should have ended up resting in its own special wing of the Air and Space Museum, not in shards strewn across Texas. Goddamned unfair universe. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/214 "2003-02-01T20:37:28Z")
I’m disappointed and saddened, but no more than I would be after hearing about a plane crash or a train wreck. I wish it had not happened, but accidents like this will happen again if we continue to fly people into outer space and that’s no reason to quit trying. Ol’ Grissom was right: the potential rewards are worth the risk. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/215 "2003-02-01T20:39:19Z")
From Popular Mechanics, a while ago, is word that Columbia also had significant problems on what I believe was its last flight before this one: > [@](#): > > But what would happen in a less-than-perfect scenario, such as a multiple engine failure or when the shuttle is carrying one of the heavier pieces of the space station? > > “If you fail more than one engine when you’re way up high, you fall out of the sky,” says Young. > > A combination of speed and high deceleration forces would be too much for a shuttle to hold together. “And that pulls the wings off,” he says. > > This chain of events came uncomfortably close to happening in July 1999, when Columbia launched with the Chandra X-ray Observatory, the heaviest cargo ever carried by a shuttle. Immediately after liftoff, a short circuit knocked out computers in two of Columbia’s three main engines. Backup computers took over, and the shuttle mission, the first to be commanded by a woman, continued. > > Given the size and weight of the payload, if those two engines had shut down, Columbia would have broken up and plunged into the Atlantic, Young says. The last paragraph of this story is chilling, too. > [@](#): > > But with the increasing pace of space station construction–34 launches are now scheduled over the next six years–NASA’s aging fleet of four shuttles will be put to the ultimate test. > > “The orbiter is the way it is and we’ve known about it and lived with it for 20 years,” says Young. “Being 20 years old, it is starting to become an aging vehicle. We may have some failures we haven’t thought about.” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/216 "2003-02-01T20:45:31Z")
**Milossarian** : The article seems to be talking about a _launch_ mishap, not a landing one. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/217 "2003-02-01T20:47:53Z")
At least two other posters here have quoted material by Robert A. Heinlein, and one poster quoted an alternate verse for the Navy Hymn. Heinlein, in his short story “Ordeal in Space” had a verse for that hymn, and I find it is my favorite of the three or four I have readin other places, _Almighty Ruler of the All Whose Power extends to great and small Who guides the stars with steadfast law, Whose least creation fills with awe; Oh, grant Thy mercy and Thy grace To those who venture into space._ Eternal rest grant them, O Lord Let light perpetual shine upon them. ---
**Author:** ![Milossarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Milossarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Milossarian)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/218 "2003-02-01T20:58:31Z")
Johnny L.A. - You are correct. My point in posting it was, these things are 20 years old. Things are starting to go wrong on them. Columbia, the oldest in the fleet, had significant problems the last time it flew. And the quote by the guy at the end is chilling. ---
**Author:** ![DirkGntly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d9b06d/32.png) [@DirkGntly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirkGntly)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/219 "2003-02-01T21:00:19Z")
NASA has indicated that the debris on liftoff impacted the left wing. If so, then statements from NASA in their live press conference are pretty damning as to what happened. According to NASA, there were “off-scale low” temperature sensor failures in the hydraulics of the left wing at 7:53am. At 7:56am, there were “off-scale low” sensor failures in the structure of the wing. At 7:58am, there were sensor readings indicating high temperature and pressure in both the inboard and outboard left-side landing gear wheels, immediately before going “off-scale low,” which is NASA terminology for “no reading from the sensor.” The landing-gear sensor lit an indicator on the control panel, which prompted the crew to contact NASA. This was the last communication from the crew. Officially, the craft broke apart at 208,325 feet, traveling at mach 18.3. If this is indeed the series of events, then the crew really had no chance. **IF** the tile damage that was incurred at liftoff was to the left wing, it would appear it was the culprit, just from the data NASA is already releasing. Naturally, we will have to wait for the final investigation, but it looks to me that the crew was basically dead at liftoff, due to ceramic tile damage, which could not be repaired in orbit. ---
**Author:** ![Eli](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@Eli](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eli)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097/220 "2003-02-01T21:07:15Z")
Was there a black box on the shuttle? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/weve-just-lost-a-shuttle/152097.md?page=12)