# Wgen did you discover that "reality" is inconsistent? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738 "2009-07-02T20:47:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/21 "2009-07-03T01:01:17Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > I do not think the term “reality” means what you think it means. For the sake of accuracy, I am using Kantian terminology: representational reality as opposed to the thing-in-itself. The thing-in-itself is what you would probably refer to as so-called “objective reality,” and is directly unknowable. Our experience of the world – dasein as Heidegger called it – is where we live. And it is inconsistent. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/22 "2009-07-03T01:37:35Z")
My reality sure as hell changed when I left Texas to live in Santa Cruz, CA. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/23 "2009-07-03T02:03:06Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > Let me give you something practical as an example. I am going to assume that you are sighted for this, so correct me if I’m wrong. We know that where the optic nerve connects to the retina, there are no sensory nerves. This is the “blind spot,” as they call it. Yet you do not observe this blind spot, nor, in your memories, is there a big black smudge in the middle of them. Here is proof positive that the Universe of our perception is inconsistent, for we can actually do simple experiments to show objects popping in and out of existence as we move them in and out of our blind spot. … The reason you don’t observe the blind spot, typically, is because your eyes flicker around and your brain uses that to fill in the little missing bits. Your perception isn’t inconsistent at all in that respect; it’s remarkably consistent. And I’ve never had a third-person memory either. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/24 "2009-07-03T02:48:07Z")
Are you one of those guys who lives in a car crammed with tattered old philosophy books? ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/25 "2009-07-03T03:10:34Z")
Given that all that you know and experience is a matter of how your brain interprets the input it gets from your senses, and that what with dreaming and mental illness, the brain is clearly capable of creating its own reality, where do you get off blaming reality for what is most likely your brain screwing up? To answer your initial question: never. My reality is consistent, and always has been. Do many people actually experience otherwise? ---
**Author:** ![supergoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@supergoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/supergoose)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/26 "2009-07-03T03:17:25Z")
Blaming the \*real \*reality, that is. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/27 "2009-07-03T03:22:47Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > As I indicated in my anecdote, I realized at a very young age that the experiencial Universe was inconsistent – which is at odds with everything the grown-ups claimed at the time. In the years since, I have discovered that my discovery was far from unique, and that people ranging from the Gautama Buddha to Immanuel Kant to John Wheeler have also realized the degree to which the representational Universe seems to rely on our experiences and expectations rather than on some nebulous external quality of “objectivity.” Dude, every educated adult understands the concept of subjectivity. Your big insight here is something every freshman Philosophy 101 student grasps. > [@](#): > > I’m curious whether any of you also remember the specific point where it dawned on you that the world was inconsistent, and that the grown-ups had lied to you about the nature of reality. I don’t seem to recall anyone lying to me about this. Perhaps you had weird parents. Oh, and I have no memories in the third person. All mine are in the first person. Third person memories? That’s screwed up, dude. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/28 "2009-07-03T03:26:29Z")
Stupid hippie bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/29 "2009-07-03T03:27:23Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > I remember the specific instant when I realized that the representational Universe in which we live is inconsistent, and that all the adults in the world were lying about it. I was in grade 2 and I laid my big pencil down on the desk. It started to roll on the tilted desk, I made a grab for it, and missed. I felt the pencil hit my foot, then heard it clatter to the floor. I bent over to pick it up – and realized it was sitting on my lap. > > How many of you have had that sudden moment of illumination when you finally realized that so-called “physical matter” is a myth? I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say. If the pencil landed in your lap, _you heard some other sound_. Reality wasn’t “inconsistent”, your brain just filled in the piece of the puzzle you expected to hear. Like those experiments where people are shown a before picture and an after picture (say a child looking at a vase and a broken vase) and then swear they also saw a middle picture (of the child pushing over the vase) even though no middle picture ever existed. Or, to put it more simply, you really need a girl/boyfriend. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/30 "2009-07-03T03:35:49Z")
Don’t bogart that joint. \* - Is my philosophy ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/31 "2009-07-03T05:14:21Z")
Questioning the nature(if not the very existence) of reality based of the slimmest of evidence? Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/32 "2009-07-03T06:28:10Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > Stupid hippie bullshit. Redundant two times over. ---
**Author:** ![DagNation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@DagNation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DagNation)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/33 "2009-07-03T06:50:31Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > I’m curious whether any of you also remember the specific point where it dawned on you that the world was inconsistent, and that the grown-ups had lied to you about the nature of reality. When I discovered that Santa is not real. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/34 "2009-07-03T06:51:22Z")
When I learned about the so-called wind chill index. I had just driven out of Amarillo, Texas, and all the temperature signs on the bank agreed that it was 42 degrees and raining. (Okay, they didn’t say it was raining, but that was easy enough to figure out.) I proceeded to head out of town and skidded on an icy overpass, resulting in loss of control of the car. I overreacted and skidded in the opposite direction, then overreacted again and skidded even more, but then recovered from the skid, but a sheriff driving the opposite direction saw me and assumed I was drunk and stopped me. He then sat me in the back of his car and explained that the overpass could be icy, even though it was 10 degrees above freezing, because of the wind chill. Which made it feel colder. Even though it was not actually colder. (But apparently the water thought it was, because it was definitely ice.) I have been confused about reality ever since, but only in cold weather. (Note, I live in Denver, so this is _all the time._) ---
**Author:** ![SmashTheState](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@SmashTheState](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmashTheState)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/35 "2009-07-03T06:53:56Z")
None of you have read CoPR, have you? For people who have such an overweening sense of your own intellect, some of you folks seem surprisingly uneducated. Mocking anyone who doesn’t share your in-jokes and rigid materialist dogma appears to be the SOP here and, I have to say, as an outsider looking in, it makes the SD boards look remarkably unpleasant. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/36 "2009-07-03T06:56:34Z")
I think the OP is crackers having read his public profile. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/37 "2009-07-03T06:57:56Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > None of you have read CoPR, have you? Oh, **Smash** , you’re _sooo_ smart and well-read! _swoons_ ---
**Author:** ![DagNation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@DagNation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DagNation)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/38 "2009-07-03T07:06:05Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I think the OP is crackers having read his public profile. Since crackers go so well with chowder, you should make great friends! 🆒 (Yes I do think I’m funny, but you don’t have to) ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/39 "2009-07-03T07:16:34Z")
> [@SmashTheState](#): > > None of you have read CoPR, have you? For people who have such an overweening sense of your own intellect, some of you folks seem surprisingly uneducated. Mocking anyone who doesn’t share your in-jokes and rigid materialist dogma appears to be the SOP here and, I have to say, as an outsider looking in, it makes the SD boards look remarkably unpleasant. I note you have totally dropped the issue of “third person” memories, which you have universally been told no one else has (I don’t, either; I see things in memory and dream in first-person perspective). Also, you assert that in the 2nd grade, you dropped a pencil, which you found in your lap, but which you felt hit your foot and heard hit the floor. Dude, either this is a made-up episode for the purpose of introducing your topic, in which case your discussion starts of being intellectually dishonest, or you simply have some pretty bizzaar (perhaps even nebulous) grip on “reality.” Becauce you **cannot** have felt the pencil hit your foot if it was in your lap. And if you really think you did hear it hit the floor, and felt it hit your foot, then you are suffering from the sort of non-real sensory input that puts you in a good chance of being able to be diagnosed with a mental illness. Having said that, I’ll offer something up here. When I was in my early 20s, I had a car which I was driving around one day in the rain. A truck going the other way splashed water in my direction; as the water hit my driver’s side window, I “felt” the water hit me on my neck. I remember going home and telling my father about how my brain must have expected the water to hit me, so it created the feeling of it happening. He gave me the weird look fathers do when they wonder what genetic miscommunication produced their offspring and wandered off, leaving me feel all defensive about my theory. Of course, when it happened again and again, it finally dawned on me that the water was simply hitting the rubber cushion against which the window rested (it wasn’t in a groove, since there was no upper frame to the door) and rebounding around the window edge to hit me. One time, sufficient water made it inside to wetten my shirt noticeably, putting an end to my hypothesis about reality and what my mind made of it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2009, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738/40 "2009-07-03T07:17:42Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > I think the OP is crackers having read his public profile. Hey, the Wobblys might not be in vogue now, but that’s no reason to consider him insane. His original post in this thread, however… :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wgen-did-you-discover-that-reality-is-inconsistent/501738.md?page=3)