# WH refuses to open EPA's e-mail re greenhouse gases **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 27, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427 "2008-06-27T12:56:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/61 "2008-06-30T03:32:00Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Then so are you. [/QUOTE] Garbage. I voted against it, I spoke out against it, and unlike you, I haven’t gone around making speeches trying to justify America’s barbaric behavior. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I fear that there are a multitude of factors and possible ramifications that went into this waylaid plan to invade Iraq. I agreed with it at the outset because in the wake of 9/11, we believed what we were told. [/quote] You and your fellow fools may have, but I, along with the majority of the human race knew better. The fact that Bush was lying about why we went to war was blindingly obvious. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] But i cannot at the same time allege that my government utterly fabricated everything or had no real reason to invade Iraq other than out of sheer malice and greed. The truth has to be a complicated mess of combining factors. [/quote] Why ? We invaded because as a culture we are greedy, dishonest, bigoted and malignant. A vile, stupid nation with vile, stupid leaders. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] Whatever man. I suppose you’re amongst the few that still maintain that our government orchestrated 9/11 in order to launch a neverending war against terrorists (read: Islam/Muslims) too, aren’t you? [/quote] No; but I expect that Bush and his neocon friends let Osama do it on purpose, and they said beforehand they wanted “a new Pearl Harbor” to happen. Regardless of their involvment, I’m quite certain they were positively orgasmic over 9-11. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] And as far as “deigning to get my hands dirty”, even if your motherfucking worthless ass is right about me being a murderer because I support our military, at least I had the cajones to join and actually serve. [/quote] Ah, yes, because slaughtering people who can’t fight back in the name of greed, malice and bigotry is so VERY brave. And yes, that’s most of what the American military does. They are a collection of thugs; bullies and rapists, murderers and torturers. “Serving” with them is a mark of shame, of personal vileness, not of virtue. [QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] The fact of the matter is that we’re there NOW, and we have to try to disengage ourselves from that region militarily with the rationale that we did actually accomplish something, which would be another Democratic nation in that region that is friendly to us, will sell us their oil and shows other ME countries that democracy is the best way to govern as we know it now. [/QUOTE] That is a contradictory and therefore unachievable goal. Any democratic Iraq is going to be our enemy. And we’ve already shown the other countries of the ME that when we say “democracy”, we mean mass murder, devastation and anarchy. We’ve discredited democracy there, not helped it. Not that we ever actually cared about democracy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/62 "2008-06-30T03:33:03Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] We can have a problem with anything. [/QUOTE] We **should** have a problem with **some** things. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/63 "2008-06-30T03:34:18Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] I said I would have no problem with it if in fact that was the real and only cause for it . . . [/QUOTE] That was **my** point. You’re scum. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/64 "2008-06-30T03:34:44Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Garbage. I voted against it, I spoke out against it, and unlike you, I haven’t gone around making speeches trying to justify America’s barbaric behavior. [/QUOTE] Have you helped to pay for it? What has your speaking out achieved? I have not make any speeches trying to justify America’s barbaric behavior. I do not think America needs any justification. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/65 "2008-06-30T03:35:52Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] … with the rationale that we did actually accomplish something…that democracy is the best way to govern as we know it now. [/QUOTE] I seriously doubt that “rationale” is the appropriate word, here. Democracy is clearly the best way to _be governed_. Autocracy, secret police and a firm military are the best way to\* govern\*, the most direct and efficient means to implement policy. Those who _govern_ are intensly aware of thier unique qualifications for their positions, they are loath to let such crisply efficient systems fall into disrepair for the sake of some vague political abstraction. That, and they don’t want to get put against the wall and shot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/66 "2008-06-30T03:42:06Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I have not make any speeches trying to justify America’s barbaric behavior. I do not think America needs any justification. [/QUOTE] You don’t seem to think **anything** needs any justification, anywhere, ever. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/67 "2008-06-30T04:03:09Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Have you helped to pay for it? What has your speaking out achieved? [/quote] Not willingly, and not much. Let me guess; this is the point where you suggest that I “prove” that I really oppose the war, and take up armed resistance; probably in the hope that I’m actually dumb enough to do so and will be killed. [QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I do not think America needs any justification. [/QUOTE] Of course not; you are vermin. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/68 "2008-06-30T04:05:25Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] ..probably in the hope that I’m actually dumb enough to do so and will be killed… [/QUOTE] You don’t need a Weatherman to know how much _that_ blows… ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/69 "2008-06-30T04:07:11Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Not willingly, and not much. Let me guess; this is the point where you suggest that I “prove” that I really oppose the war, and take up armed resistance; probably in the hope that I’m actually dumb enough to do so and will be killed. [/QUOTE] I would never suggest you do any such thing. But maybe you should back up your beliefs and start a tax protest. Are you unwilling to go to prison to avoid supporting what you believe is theft, torture, and mass murder? Coward. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/70 "2008-06-30T04:12:12Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] I would never suggest you do any such thing. But maybe you should back up your beliefs and start a tax protest. Are you unwilling to go to prison to avoid supporting what you believe is theft, torture, and mass murder? Coward. [/QUOTE] Ah, so you want me pointlessly imprisoned, and not pointlessly killed. Declining to destroy myself in order to pander to YOUR idea of how I should behave isn’t cowardice; it’s called 'not being an easily manipulated idiot". Unlike you. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/71 "2008-06-30T04:16:13Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Ah, so you want me pointlessly imprisoned, and not pointlessly killed. Declining to destroy myself in order to pander to YOUR idea of how I should behave isn’t cowardice; it’s called 'not being an easily manipulated idiot". Unlike you. [/QUOTE] You are paying for what you believe is mass murder. I would pay for what I believe is mass murder. It would not be a pointless imprisonment. The press would cover it. It would get people thinking. The bullshit protesting you doing now is pointless. Unless you are willing to back your protesting up, you just sound like a crybaby. And how did you vote against the Iraq war? Are you in Congress? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/72 "2008-06-30T04:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] It would not be a pointless imprisonment. The press would cover it. It would get people thinking. [/quote] The press would ignore it, and the majority of “the people” in America are evil, or amoral at best. Predators. That’s why we are in Iraq in the first place, why Bush got into office twice; the majority of the American population is scum. They’ve proven it. I’m not going to bother trying to appeal to the better nature of people who don’t have one. [QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] And how did you vote against the Iraq war? [/QUOTE] I voted against Bush; twice. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/73 "2008-06-30T04:25:37Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] It would not be a pointless imprisonment. The press would cover it. It would get people thinking. [/QUOTE] Deliberate bullshit, or sheer idiocy? IMHO, it’s the former. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/74 "2008-06-30T04:27:50Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] The press would ignore it, and the majority of “the people” in America are evil, or amoral at best. Predators. That’s why we are in Iraq in the first place, why Bush got into office twice; the majority of the American population is scum. They’ve proven it. I’m not going to bother trying to appeal to the better nature of people who don’t have one. [/quote] Maybe you should move? I am not one of those “love it or leave it” people, but if I lived someplace that I thought was full of evil people who were committing mass murder and were “forcing” me to support mass murder, I would probably move. Is there a nation you believe is not made up of mostly evil people? > [@](#): > > I voted against Bush; twice. Neither of which was a vote on the war. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/75 "2008-06-30T04:28:51Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Neither of which was a vote on the war. [/QUOTE] The 2004 vote was. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/76 "2008-06-30T04:29:56Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The 2004 vote was. [/QUOTE] Plenty of people voted for other reasons. Taxes and bigotry were big. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/77 "2008-06-30T04:34:23Z")
[QUOTE=Two and a Half Inches of Fun] Plenty of people voted for other reasons. Taxes and bigotry were big. [/QUOTE] What on Earth are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/78 "2008-06-30T04:34:52Z")
When I voted against him in 2000, wasn’t that big a deal, I thought. Center right vs center left, vote for as progressive as you can, so Gore. But I was very impressed with Bush’s post election speech, where he recognized that he hadn’t really won much of anything, and promised to govern in a centrist and non-partisan… Oh, no, I don’t remember that, come to think of it, because it didn’t fucking happen. He showed his real stripes right away, like he had a minus 500,000 vote landslide for a mandate. Fooled me, didn’t have any idea how much of an asshole he was till Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea666f/32.png) [@Two\_and\_a\_Half\_Inches\_of\_Fun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_and_a_Half_Inches_of_Fun)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/79 "2008-06-30T04:38:15Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What on Earth are you talking about? [/QUOTE] The 2004 election. It was about more than the war. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2008, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427/80 "2008-06-30T11:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] What on Earth are you talking about? [/QUOTE] I believe that “bigotry” was in reference to the numerous bans on gay marriage that were on the ballots in 2004. “Taxes” would be a reference to tax and spend democrats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/wh-refuses-to-open-epas-e-mail-re-greenhouse-gases/454427.md?page=5)