# Whaddya mean, cheating isn't allowed?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591 "2004-05-28T23:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/21 "2004-05-29T10:47:12Z")
It’s no wonder he’s such a dingbat. Apparently, it’s hereditary: > [@](#): > > Mr Gunn’s mother, Elaine, said that the family was looking for a lawyer to take up the challenge of a potentially landmark test case. “It is not about the money,” she said. “We just don’t want this to happen to others.” She said that her son was not proud of what he had done, but the university had to accept some responsibility. > > "He has no degree, debts up to his eyeballs and three missing years of his life with nothing to show on his CV. It could not be more disastrous. > > “The university was happy to take his tuition fees over the past three years and fill a place on the course, but what about its obligations? Why was it not pointing out the pitfalls, and why was its head in the sand for so long? I didn’t want to have to go the legal route - I just wanted my son to come out like a normal student.” ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/22 "2004-05-29T13:04:53Z")
After reading the article in question, it appears that the “student” (and I use the word in a very cavalier fashion) is not the only one here in the wrong… I get a whiff of less-than-savory from the University itself. [Halfway through 2[sup]nd[/sup] year]“This guy is plagerizing all over the place… we have to kick him out!” “Wait… he’s paying a nice tuition, isn’t he? Don’t worry - we’ll take the rest of his money and throw him out just before graduation”. If it were up to me, I’d make the University cough up at least one year of tuition. And have the money used for scholarships. Oh - and make the plaintiff match the scholarship fund pound for pound, just for the audacity of suing over this 😃 Dani ---
**Author:** ![look\_ninjas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b2d939/32.png) [@look\_ninjas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/look_ninjas)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/23 "2004-05-29T13:19:50Z")
The student and his lawyers are claiming that the university ought to have spotted it sooner. It doesn’t mean that his professors were aware that he was plagiarizing, but didn’t bust him for it so they could get his tuition. And if they’re just installing software to help catch cheaters, which the linked article says they’re doing, they probably weren’t aware until the last essay got caught. There are a lot of essays and sources on the net to copy from, and teachers can’t scan through every last one to see if students are cheating. They have plenty of work to do as it is. So I don’t think they were stringing him along to get money out of him. It was probably a lucky break that they caught him at all. And how the fuck can you not know that cutting and pasting internet sources constitutes plagiarism? You’re presenting another’s work as your own. Plagiarism, plain and simple. Hand me a spear. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/24 "2004-05-29T13:26:56Z")
It’s things like this that bring out the fascist in me … that get the little red devil on my shoulder to saying, “Y’know, there really ought to be a line … a point where it’s OKAY to execute people for _simply being too stupid_… cleaning out the gene pool, really…” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/25 "2004-05-29T13:31:25Z")
The article doesn’t say that they knew about his cheating since the second year - they only spotted it in the final review of all coursework, which included work from that time. And given the guy liked using the internet so much, maybe he should have found this: > [@](#): > > **Plagiarism** > All borrowed material, whether quoted or not, must be acknowledged. Never pass off someone else’s ideas as your own. This is plagiarism (cheating) and will be penalised. But use your common sense. Knowledge ‘in the public domain’ (e.g. that Mansfield Park is a third-person narrative) obviously does not need acknowledgement. The standard University regulations on plagiarism and duplication of material are contained in the Part I and Part II Handbooks: you should check these. From the [University of Kent School of English undergraduate handbook](http://www.kent.ac.uk/english/documents/dossier-03-4-updated-061103%2520(1).doc) ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/26 "2004-05-29T16:15:31Z")
Spears?.. _Spears???_… No, no, no… Ladies and gentlemen and Dopers of all ages, we shouldn’t using _spears_. What you want to kill him too quickly? It is _darts_ we must be using. Keep him around as an example others. Spears? Pfeh, that’s so unrefined! Darts take finess… Plus, we can hold the public darting down at the pub. Mouse-ho! Ka-fling! ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/27 "2004-05-29T16:32:14Z")
My good lord. When I was in school… (“Tell us about it, grampa!”) We had to SIGN A FORM on the first day aknowledging that we knew plagiarism was wrong and would get our asses booted out of school! We had some stupid rules, but that was definately NOT one of them. Our school was very paranoid about the legal reprocussions of not having EVERY rule spelled out and signed by the students. Scary, in its own sad way. ---
**Author:** ![Sweetums](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Sweetums](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sweetums)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/28 "2004-05-29T17:47:50Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > I was going to give some defence to the student in saying that my experience was that UK University rules made it somewhat unclear as to what was considered plagurism and what was considered fair use of read background information. But reading the OP linked article the case is so clearcut is to be laughable if it weren’t also sad. > I wonder if I could get me an English degree with the book I just rote, I call it Duke of the Rings, its about some midgets, a guy called Arathorn and a sorcerer called Gondalf. > Pass me a throwing trident will you… ``` Too late, Terry Brooks beat you to it. ``` I’ll take a pilum please. ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/29 "2004-05-29T18:10:47Z")
Pass me the short-shafted assegai. I wanna get up close and personal. ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/30 "2004-05-29T18:35:14Z")
> [@ArrMatey!](#): > > My good lord. When I was in school… (“Tell us about it, grampa!”) We had to SIGN A FORM on the first day aknowledging that we knew plagiarism was wrong and would get our asses booted out of school! > We had some stupid rules, but that was definately NOT one of them. Our school was very paranoid about the legal reprocussions of not having EVERY rule spelled out and signed by the students. Scary, in its own sad way. That’s not a bad idea. Perhaps I am older than you. We never had to sign anything. It was simply assumed that we knew durn good and well that plagiarism or cheating of any kind carried dire and ugly penalties. Then again, we didn’t have any internet to cheat off of. We had to go find BOOKS to cheat out of… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/31 "2004-05-29T18:51:41Z")
My English instructor (of whom I will always have fond memories) warned us the first day of class about the Evils of Plagarism. He also told us about the software that universities use to detect it. I’ve often wondered how it works. Do you scan the essay, copy and paste it into MS Word then link to the internet and sick the software on it? Oh, and we didn’t have BOOKS to plagarize from. We had to plagarize from STONE TABLETS. And they were too heavy to check out of the library so we could plagarize in the privacy of our dorm rooms. We had to sneak in late at night and copy them onto wet clay using a stylus. And since covers hadn’t been invented yet, we had to carry them home very carefully, lest an accidental touch wipe out our hard work of stealing other people’s work. Kids today have it so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/32 "2004-05-29T19:11:47Z")
Yeah, but back then there were only two words to plagiarize: “gug” and “og.” It was pretty damned hard _not_ to plagiarize… ---
**Author:** ![The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@The\_Asbestos\_Mango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Asbestos_Mango)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/33 "2004-05-29T20:57:48Z")
**Fish** , you posted too soon. You’re supposed to wait for someone to say, “You had STONE TABLETS? Hell, when I was in college we didn’t have stone tablets. We had to do our plagarizing from petroglyphs and cave paintings…” ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/34 "2004-05-29T20:59:47Z")
I _would’ve_ posted that but it’d been done before. … ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/35 "2004-05-29T21:20:58Z")
My first college professor (of whom I will always have memories) warned us the first day of class that Plagarism is Wrong. He also told us about the software that universities use to detect it. I’ve often wondered how it works. Do you scan the essay, copy and paste it into MS Word then link to the internet and sick the software on it? Oh, and we didn’t have BOOKS to plagarize from. We had to plagarize from STONE TABLETS. And they were too heavy to check out of the library so we could plagarize in the privacy of our dorm rooms. We had to sneak in late at night and copy them onto wet clay using a stylus. And since covers hadn’t been invented yet, we had to carry them home very carefully, lest an accidental touch wipe out our hard work of stealing other people’s work. You darn kids today have it so easy. ---
**Author:** ![Avarie537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/48db29/32.png) [@Avarie537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avarie537)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/36 "2004-05-30T01:48:34Z")
Wow - he must not have any older siblings! In the fifth grade (10 years old), I had to write something about zebras. My older brothers (12 and 17) gleefully told me that I had better be damned careful about not copying word-for-word and providing references when I did use a quote, otherwise that’s PLAGIARISM and it goes on your permanent record and you’ll fail the fifth grade and they’ll kick you out of school and you’ll be a stupid loser for the rest of your life!! Seriously - they did. ---
**Author:** ![DadWagonDriver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/edb3f5/32.png) [@DadWagonDriver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DadWagonDriver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/37 "2004-05-30T02:24:17Z")
The sad thing is, if that were here in the States, the asshat would win. ---
**Author:** ![Tower\_Dweller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@Tower\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tower_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/38 "2004-05-30T02:52:48Z")
I think he got off easy, relatively speaking. My freshman year, my assignment was to create a lame little web page using frames. The content was not important. As I understood it, you could use other people’s stuff in some circumstances, but you always had give credit. Since the point of the assignment was Learning to Use Frames, not Learning to write up a bunch of fake text, I vacuumed somebody else’s text and then coded the frames. At the bottom of each page, I had a note saying where it came from, with a link to the original page. My professor gave me a zero (I’m pretty sure he just clicked on the link I gave him, I didn’t try to hide it. ) It sucked, but I immediatly realized that I was probably wrong. I was lucky he didn’t turn me in to the Honor Council (yeah, that’s what it sounds like). I could have been expelled, or at least been put on academic probation. It sounds like this guy could have just re-enrolled and tried to get all his credits back. Instead, he tries to somehow blame the school. Asshat. Just a spoon for me. Why a spoon? 'Cause it’ll hurt more, you idiot! Actually, that would make a good line in a movie! About men! In green suits! Who live in a forest! I’ll call it Robert’s Hoodlums. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/39 "2004-05-30T07:41:49Z")
> [@Tower Dweller](#): > > I think he got off easy, relatively speaking. > > My freshman year, my assignment was to create a lame little web page using frames. The content was not important. As I understood it, you could use other people’s stuff in some circumstances, but you always had give credit. > > Since the point of the assignment was Learning to Use Frames, not Learning to write up a bunch of fake text, I vacuumed somebody else’s text and then coded the frames. At the bottom of each page, I had a note saying where it came from, with a link to the original page. > > My professor gave me a zero (I’m pretty sure he just clicked on the link I gave him, I didn’t try to hide it. ) It sucked, but I immediatly realized that I was probably wrong. I was lucky he didn’t turn me in to the Honor Council (yeah, that’s what it sounds like). I could have been expelled, or at least been put on academic probation. Eh? I realise there are grey areas, and that wht you did maybe wasn’t the smartest, but I’d say “saying that you copied something”=“not plagarism” I suppose you could argue that it’s a copyright violation? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/40 "2004-05-30T10:38:50Z")
> [@Tower Dweller](#): > > It sounds like this guy could have just re-enrolled and tried to get all his credits back. Apart from taking another two years, I don’t think he’d be entitled to any of the state support he got first time around, so he’d be paying an extra £3500ish a year fees, and wouldn’t be entitled to any student loan. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591.md?page=3)