# Whaddya mean, cheating isn't allowed?!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591 "2004-05-28T23:05:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/41 "2004-05-30T11:45:57Z")
The spouse teaches at the university level in London, and continually hammers home the point about plagiarism and the need to properly cite sources (footnotes and bibliography and all). And yet it still takes some of her students two or three papers to grasp the concept. While this means that their papers get heavily marked down (these are first-year students, and so get a _little_ slack), they still need repeated reminders. Some students are just really dense, I guess. The advantage of kids copying stuff off the Internet, however, is that instructors also know how to Google. The spouse says she catches a lot of them this way, although the usual giveaway clues still work too. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/42 "2004-05-30T13:32:03Z")
Spears? Harpoons? DARTS??? You people aren’t thinking big enough. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to put steel-spiked shoes on my horse, grab my handy jousting lance, get into a full gallop, and [have at the scurvy wretch](http://www.warhorse.com/jousting.html)! The rest of you might like to stand by with a [mace](http://www.medieval-ware.com/medievalmace.html), or perhaps one of a tasteful selection of [halberds](http://www.medieval-ware.com/halberds.html), if my first jousting pass doesn’t finish him off. ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/43 "2004-05-30T13:56:28Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Geez, the Very FIrst[sic] Thing you learn at uni (apart from the location of the local drinking establishment) is that plagiarism is a Very Serious Thing that will result in your failing, no ifs and absolutely no buts. Ah you melbournites. Same here. I swear to god, I get told oe more time about their sophisticated programs that check if you plagiarized, I’m gonna… whack them with a woomera. It’s dumb, because they say it about programming assignments, programming assignments that involve only one possible solution. So in a class of a couple of hundred people some of them are going to look mighty the same. And what do their sophisticated programs do then? 😕 Let alone when we have to only extend code, which is going to look even more alike. But that guy is dumb. How the hell did he even get into university? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/44 "2004-05-30T15:36:04Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > The article doesn’t say that they knew about his cheating since the second year - they only spotted it in the final review of all coursework, which included work from that time. > > And given the guy liked using the internet so much, maybe he should have found this: > From the > [University of Kent School of English undergraduate handbook](http://www.kent.ac.uk/english/documents/dossier-03-4-updated-061103%2520(1).doc) And from the [Handbook](http://www.kent.ac.uk/human/handbook/0405/Part2/general.htm) for the Faculty of Humanities, of which the English Department is a part: > [@](#): > > PLAGIARISM > > Plagiarism is the act of presenting the ideas or discoveries of another as one’s own. To copy sentences, phrases or even striking expressions without acknowledgement in a manner which may deceive the reader as to the source is an act of plagiarism; to paraphrase in a manner which may deceive the reader is, likewise, plagiarism. > > A student must not reproduce in any work submitted for assessment (for example, examination answers, essays, project reports, dissertations or theses) any material derived from work authored by another without clearly acknowledging the source. > > DUPLICATION OF MATERIAL > > Duplication of material means the inclusion in coursework (including extended essays, projects and dissertations) of a significant amount of material which is identical or substantially similar to material which has already been submitted for the same or any other module at this University or elsewhere. > > A student must not reproduce in any work submitted for assessment any substantial amount of material used by that student in other work for assessment, either at this University or elsewhere, without acknowledging that such work has been so submitted. > > The University does not tolerate plagiarism or duplication of material and imposes severe penalties if it occurs in coursework, dissertations, projects and examinations. If you need guidance on the correct use and presentation of quotations and source material, you should consult your tutor or seminar leader. Hell, this section even gets it’s own little [page](http://www.kent.ac.uk/human/handbook/0203/part2/plagiarism.htm). From the University’s [Undergraduate Handbook](http://www.kent.ac.uk/cbs/students/undergraduate/undergrad-handbook.htm): > [@](#): > > Plagiarism > > The University does not accept plagiarism or duplication of material and will impose severe penalties if it occurs in coursework, dissertations, projects and examinations. Your written work is meant to be your own, unaided work. Any unacknowledged collaboration, copying from books or the Internet, or submission of program code written by someone else all count as plagiarism. In any case of plagiarism, every student knowingly involved in the plagiarism will be assigned a mark of zero for the complete unit of assessment concerned. > > Plagiarism is the act of repeating the ideas or discoveries of someone else as your own. To copy sentences, phrases or even striking expressions without acknowledgement in a manner which may deceive the reader as to the source is plagiarism; to paraphrase in a manner which may deceive the reader is likewise plagiarism. You must not reproduce in any work submitted for assessment (for example, examination answers, essays, project reports, dissertations or theses) any material derived from work authored by another without clearly acknowledging the source. This includes work done by other students, or published on the Internet, as well as more traditional sources, such as textbooks and journals. > > Duplication of material means the inclusion in coursework (including extended essays, projects and dissertations) of a significant amount of material which is identical or substantially similar to material which has already been submitted for the same or any other course at this University or elsewhere. You must not reproduce in any work submitted for assessment any substantial amount of material that you have used in other work for assessment, at this University or elsewhere, without acknowledging that such work has been submitted. The guy is either a moron or in denial. Either way, i hope he get’s his ass handed to him in the court case. ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/45 "2004-05-30T16:34:53Z")
> [@ArrMatey!](#): > > My good lord. When I was in school… (“Tell us about it, grampa!”) We had to SIGN A FORM on the first day aknowledging that we knew plagiarism was wrong and would get our asses booted out of school! > We had some stupid rules, but that was definately NOT one of them. Our school was very paranoid about the legal reprocussions of not having EVERY rule spelled out and signed by the students. Scary, in its own sad way. But then again plagiarism wasn’t that bad in those days. It all went to hell thanks to that Guttemberg guy. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/46 "2004-05-30T18:53:04Z")
> [@look!ninjas](#): > > The student and his lawyers are claiming that the university ought to have spotted it sooner. It doesn’t mean that his professors were aware that he was plagiarizing, but didn’t bust him for it so they could get his tuition. And if they’re just installing software to help catch cheaters, which the linked article says they’re doing, they probably weren’t aware until the last essay got caught. There are a lot of essays and sources on the net to copy from, and teachers can’t scan through every last one to see if students are cheating. They have plenty of work to do as it is. So I don’t think they were stringing him along to get money out of him. It was probably a lucky break that they caught him at all. > > And how the fuck can you not know that cutting and pasting internet sources constitutes plagiarism? You’re presenting another’s work as your own. Plagiarism, plain and simple. Hand me a spear. Screw that, I say stringing them along is a great idea. I suggest that every instance of plagiarism be recorded and only brought to light when someone is about to graduate or transfer schools. That way you can really screw them over. Their fault for plagiarising. Hell, that should help reduce the cost for my tuition too. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/47 "2004-05-30T19:34:17Z")
He probably thought that since the information is on the Internet, it is non-citable common knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/48 "2004-05-30T19:43:43Z")
**capacitor** He cut and pasted pages of material. That’s way beyond common knowledge that’s lazy plagiarism. There’s no way he didn’t know what he was doing was wrong. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/49 "2004-05-30T20:43:25Z")
> [@capacitor](#): > > He probably thought that since the information is on the Internet, it is non-citable common knowledge. ‘Non-citable common knowledge’ is antithetical to everything that a piece of academic writing should involve. So even if your suggestion were true, his essay would still be a zero-ranking crock of shit. ---
**Author:** ![AngelicGemma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/439d5e/32.png) [@AngelicGemma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelicGemma)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/50 "2004-05-30T21:07:54Z")
:rolleyes: There’s a _reason_ we put a bibliography on the end of essays. The guy is an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/51 "2004-05-30T22:51:04Z")
I think Tony Blair should at least congratulate him for the skill he showed to get away with this so long. Blair and crew can learn something there. They went on plagiarizing as if it was nothing and got away with it only long enough to get away with invading and occupying a sovereign nation. Killing thousands of people and still killing them. By the way: Where is the outrage gone about that little harmless stunt? Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/52 "2004-05-30T23:04:43Z")
**Aldebaran** , I believe you owe the OP an apology. Tossing this post into this thread was completely inappropriate. Next time, find a Blair bashing thread or start one. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/53 "2004-05-30T23:10:49Z")
Nawwww, leave Aldebaran alone - he’s clearly drunk, or something… ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2004, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/54 "2004-05-30T23:41:09Z")
The title says it all… Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/55 "2004-05-31T01:38:55Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > Blair and crew can learn something there. They went on plagiarizing as if it was nothing and got away with it only long enough to get away with invading and occupying a sovereign nation. Killing thousands of people and still killing them. I believe Aldebaran may be referring to [this incident](http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12620001&method=full&siteid=50143), where a British dossier on Iraqi WMD was plagiarised from an old thesis or two from some British University students. So, plagiarism + Britain = a vague link. > [@Go You Big Red Fire Engine](#): > > But that guy is dumb. How the hell did he even get into university? Cheated, of course. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/56 "2004-05-31T06:16:41Z")
If I could get paid every time I busted a student for plagiarism, I wouldn’t have to teach for a living. And this continues to happen even after my repeated dire warnings, explanations of college policy, coverage of how to–and how not to–use sources (Internet or otherwise), special sections in my syllabus, etc. It’s worse than it’s ever been. I have no sympathy. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/57 "2004-05-31T18:20:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Do you scan the essay, copy and paste it into MS Word then link to the internet and sick the software on it? Well, I don’t know exactly how the version works which your university was using, but for the CS department in which I study most submissions are electronic, including essays. We write out work, save it to a text file, submit it using a command, it’s then copied onto a server and after the deadline the program is run. It works a bit like a compiler, so I’m told, breaking down the work into a tree and then analysing it. I’ve often wondered just how valid this evidence is though. Especially in a CS department, it isn’t inconceivable that two independent students have similar styles of writing code (especially since we all more or less learn from thje same book) and find the same solution. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/58 "2004-05-31T19:07:37Z")
The difference, **+MDI** , is that when humanities departments look for plagiarism, we’re not looking primarily for students who have plagiarized from one another, which is the type of search suggested by your post. We’re more concerned about students plagiarizing from third party internet sources, whether the sites are free or a pay-for-papers service. Obviously, students who use free internet sources are much easier to catch. I’ve busted a student just by Googling sentences from their papers. Fee-based sites are different, because they are password protected and you can’t see the paper without paying the fee, so Google isn’t much help. Sadly, i’m sure that plenty of students get away with it every semester. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/59 "2004-05-31T19:26:10Z")
Part of the responsibility for preventing plagiarism rests with the tutors actually setting the essays. A well-written essay question will be damn near impossible to answer simply by cutting-and-pasting or copying from existing literature. If students can get away with this, then the question they’re answering is a probably generic one which provokes little original thought. Also, better-written questions will steer students away from the ‘mainstream’ aspects of a topic and into exloring niches, which again makes the use of readily-available material less of an option. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2004, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591/60 "2004-05-31T20:08:56Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The difference, **+MDI** , is that when humanities departments look for plagiarism, we’re not looking primarily for students who have plagiarized from one another, which is the type of search suggested by your post. > > We’re more concerned about students plagiarizing from third party internet sources, whether the sites are free or a pay-for-papers service. Obviously, students who use free internet sources are much easier to catch. I’ve busted a student just by Googling sentences from their papers. Fee-based sites are different, because they are password protected and you can’t see the paper without paying the fee, so Google isn’t much help. > > Sadly, i’m sure that plenty of students get away with it every semester. I Google exactly the way you do. Actually, I did find two papers that were purchased from the Internet, and it was because these particular sites showed a little blurb, like the first paragraph of the first page of the essay, and I was able to identify it just from that. The students never bothered to challenge it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaddya-mean-cheating-isnt-allowed/247591.md?page=4)