# Whales and Wales - homophones? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582 "2008-02-21T16:28:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/1 "2008-02-21T16:28:46Z")
There was some debate, whilst drunk, a few nights ago as to whether “whales” and “Wales” were proper homophones (this was within the context of a game of “Mallet’s mallet”). A primary teacher friend of mine insisted that they were not, and insisted that “whales” is properly pronounced differently from “Wales”. I disagreed, as did others, and can think of no accent where such a distinction would manifest itself without sounding like a ridiculous affectation. So, is “whales” pronounces differently to “Wales”, and if so, in what accents/dialects? Specifically, are they pronounced differently in RP? I presume, as he’s a British teacher, he thought that they were pronounced differently in RP, which I believe it taken as standard with regards pronunciation in the UK. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/2 "2008-02-21T16:35:36Z")
English words starting with “wh” were so spelled because it was a different sound from “w”. However, most English-speakers (including myself) pronounce the two spellings the same these days, so that (for example) “which” and “witch” are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/3 "2008-02-21T16:37:08Z")
In Midwest US speech, the _wh_ sound has a little more air push behind it - sort of an _h + w_ sound. So in that region, yes, _whales_ and _Wales_ sound different. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/4 "2008-02-21T16:38:17Z")
Diction teachers in the US teach that many words starting with “wh” like whales must be pronounced with a puff of air. They test whether you are pronouncing it correctly by hanging a tissue in front your mouth and seeing if it waves in the breeze. In my own 50 years of living in the US I have observed that the only people I’ve heard that commonly apply this distinction are people from certain areas of the South. It would generally not be heard as an affectation here, though, even by someone who did not pronounce it that way. BTW we hear “whilst” as an affectation 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SharkB8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@SharkB8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharkB8)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/5 "2008-02-21T16:39:05Z")
Now that I think about it, I think I pronounce Wales as “Wails” like the word meaning sobs, “Whales” on the other hand, for some reason pronounce it as if it is two syllables, like “WAY-ulls” or “way-ills.” Like a killer way-ull. Not to be confused with the volcano in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/6 "2008-02-21T16:45:34Z")
I say them the same way and I have basically a generic American accents these days although I grew up with a Southern accent. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/7 "2008-02-21T16:48:16Z")
I’m the only homophone in the village! ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/8 "2008-02-21T16:51:56Z")
For what it’s worth, I pronounce the “wh” (as in “what” or “whales”) and the “w” (as in “worth” or “Wales”) differently, and I hear them differently in my head when I see them—but it’s a subtle difference. Do words count as homophones if some people pronounce them identically and others don’t (e.g. “aunt” and “ant”)? Is there a special term for such words? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/9 "2008-02-21T16:55:40Z")
> [@Dominic Mulligan](#): > > …in RP, which I believe it taken as standard with regards pronunciation in the UK. Wigan & Edinburgh, and you suggest this?! [QUOTE=SharkB8] Now that I think about it, I think I pronounce Wales as “Wails” like the word meaning sobs, “Whales” on the other hand, for some reason pronounce it as if it is two syllables, like “WAY-ulls” or “way-ills.” [/QUOTE] I think I do it the other way around. Slightly. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/10 "2008-02-21T16:58:03Z")
I have a Southern US accent, and I pronounce them differently, aspirating the ‘h’ in ‘whales.’ ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/11 "2008-02-21T17:01:54Z")
My grammar school teachers taught me that “wh” should properly be pronounced as if it were spelled “hw”. Aside from that lesson, I think that everyone (my grammar teachers included) actually pronounced the “wh” as if it were spelled “w”. To me, the pronunciation that everyone I know uses has “Wales” and “whales” sounding exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/12 "2008-02-21T17:57:35Z")
I say them exactly the same whay. ---
**Author:** ![atomicbadgerrace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@atomicbadgerrace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/atomicbadgerrace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/13 "2008-02-21T17:59:36Z")
I have nothing substantial to add, except to say that on first glance, I saw “whales” and “homopho **b** es,” then I mouse-overed and saw “debate” and “drunk.” My first thought was that you had one too many drinks and got into an argument with an Orca over gay rights. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![brewha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@brewha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brewha)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/14 "2008-02-21T18:04:13Z")
[Stewie Griffon] Huhwip…Cool hhhwip. Cool hwhip. [/sg] ---
**Author:** ![SharkB8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/977dab/32.png) [@SharkB8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SharkB8)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/15 "2008-02-21T19:25:52Z")
[QUOTE=brewha] [Stewie Griffon] Huhwip…Cool hhhwip. Cool hwhip. [/sg] [/QUOTE] Brian, you’re being hhhweird. COME ON! That one doesn’t even have an “H” in it! ---
**Author:** ![Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f0a364/32.png) [@Rube\_E.Tewesday](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rube_E.Tewesday)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/16 "2008-02-21T19:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=SharkB8] Brian, you’re being hhhweird. COME ON! That one doesn’t even have an “H” in it! [/QUOTE] Thank God I’m not the only one who was thinking about this episode the whole time I was reading this thread. ---
**Author:** ![rowrrbazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rowrrbazzle/32/414_2.png) [@rowrrbazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rowrrbazzle)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/17 "2008-02-21T19:53:47Z")
I pronounce them the same, although I distinctly remember being taught at one point to pronounce “wh” as “hw”. [http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/what) > [@](#): > > Pronunciation: > \ˈhwät, ˈhwət, ˈwät, ˈwət\ > Etymology: > Middle English, from Old English hwæt, neuter of hwā who So the original spelling seems to be the rationale for the “hw” pronunciation. Perhaps some linguist here can confirm that and explain why the spelling changed. I am somewhat surprised the dictionary gives the “hw” pronunciation first. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/18 "2008-02-21T20:07:51Z")
[QUOTE=rowrrbazzle] I pronounce them the same, although I distinctly remember being taught at one point to pronounce “wh” as “hw”. [/QUOTE] To me, that sounds like one of those outdated rules meant to perpetuate some snobish, upper crust way of speaking. I mean, if it’s supposed to be pronounced “hw”, why is written “wh”? I don’t know anyone who pronounces Wales and Whales differently. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/19 "2008-02-21T20:11:53Z")
shouldn’t whales be pronounced with the same first sound as whole? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2008, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582/20 "2008-02-21T20:15:04Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] shouldn’t whales be pronounced with the same first sound as whole? [/QUOTE] Why? 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whales-and-wales-homophones/438582.md?page=2)