# Whaling - are Japan and Norway at all justified? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934 "2002-05-20T13:26:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/21 "2002-05-21T06:17:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\* > Well I can’t say this arguement moves me much. So it is ok for Native American tribes to hunt down sentient creatures? > Marc \*\* To me, no. _I_ didn’t say it was OK, I said my wife seems to feel it’s OK … I quite clearly seperated my statements from my wife’s. To me, there is _no_ justification - even saying that it is traditional, or they like the taste, doesn’t cut it. To give an example…in New Guinea and New Zealand, cooking and eating human beings was tradition up until fairly modern times. I’m speculating that people there also quite liked the taste of _long-pig_. Is that, in your eyes, justification for allowing cannibalism to continue? Justifying it for whales and not for cannibals is, IMO, special pleading, as I don’t see humans as anything other than part of a spectrum of sentience. You might disagree. That’s also why whales and not tuna. My opinions are based on perceived degree of sentience on the one hand, and the impact on _me_ and my local economy, on the other. And the desire to preserve biodiversity on the third 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/22 "2002-05-21T06:18:21Z")
There have been allegations that Japan does _not_ adhere to its “scientific whaling” mandate, but uses it instead as a smokescreen; a TV program I saw a month or two ago (_60 Minutes_, possibly?) decided to look into the whale meat readily available (for the right price) on the Japanese market. Unsurprisingly, a lot of it turned out to be from whales that are supposedly protected. I looked around to see if I could find anything on what the program was talking about, and came up with a few possibilities. [Here is a fresh story on this topic](http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/15997/story.htm%20target=): > [@](#): > > _from Reuters service, via [PlanetArk.org](http://PlanetArk.org), May 17, 2002_ > > TOKYO - Activists opposed to Japan’s “scientific” whaling programme said yesterday that DNA tests show that meat from endangered whales is being sold in stores. > > \ > > “After eight years of DNA analyses, gray whale meat has been found on the marketplace, almost certainly coming from the Western Pacific population of gray whales that only numbers about 100 individuals,” Papastavrou said. > > “So even the loss of one animal makes this population more likely to head towards extinction,” he said. > > Even some minke populations are far from safe, he added. > > “The minke whales in the Sea of Japan are extremely endangered and threatened with extinction,” he said. > > “About 41 percent of the samples obtained on the Japanese market and analysed according to DNA fingerprinting techniques are from this particular population of whales.” > > Whale meat was a staple in Japan in the dark years just after World War Two, but whale is now an expensive, gourmet food that is rarely eaten. See also [this Reuters story](http://www.reuters.com/news_article.jhtml?type=sciencenews&StoryID=985782), which mentions whale-reliant communities in Japan (strongly suggesting that whaling is more relevant for commercial rather than “scientific” purposes). I’m not sure how strong the economic factor really is in the drive for whaling, and in the long run whale-dependent communities will probably have to change or go under. But when it comes to Asia in general, people are _really_ attached to their traditional foods and remedies–you just can’t take that tiger or deer penis away from people who are willing to pay anything for such items. **Marc** , you may also want to consider that whaling is a fundamentally cruel activity when compared to slaughtering farm animals, since you bring it up: generally speaking, measures are in place to ensure that your beef does not suffer long when it’s time to become dinner; but whaling consists of shooting an explosive harpoon at the animal and blowing bits of it up in order to cripple it and eventually kill it. The technique is probably kinder than the cold harpoon it replaced, but still nothing to rave about. On the topic of Native N.A. tribes, of course it’s a matter of scale. It’s one thing for scattered tribes in the frozen North to be granted a licence to hunt whale as they have for hundreds of years–a catch under such licence sustains relatively small communities for long periods of time and is ecologically sound–but it’s quite another thing to have the world’s second-largest economy decide that the recently increased consumer demand for whale meat is more important than an increasingly fragile natural patrimony. Finally, the suggestion that whales decimate stocks of fish seems rather outrageous considering that almost every sea in the world is already overfished _by humans_, and that the data for such whale prosperity claims tend to come from nations with highly questionable positions on the subject (i.e. Norway and Japan). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/23 "2002-05-21T06:42:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jovan \* > \*\* > I really wish so-called environmentalists would devote as much energy defending the cause of non-cute species as they do for whales and such. \*\* Whales IRL are _not_ cute…impressive, yes, but the growth- and barnacle-encrusted Southern Rights we get are definitely not cute. Speaking as one person concerned with the environment, I’d just like to say that I _do_ devote more time to non-cute species like abalone, Patagonian Toothfish, Great White sharks & rainfrogs, as well as plants (and we’re talking about some of the world’s _ugliest_ succulents here). I believe overfishing is the worst ecological disaster we as a species are perpetrating at the moment, period. I just brought up the whales 'cos the IWC is meeting _right now_. And this is one set of species we already hunted almost to extinction. I think it’s a bit trusting to believe people who say “Oh no, we won’t do it like that again”, when they’ve already displayed dishonesty, poor “science”, and arrogance. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by D\_Odds \* > \*\* > My opinion is more that Norway and Japan are bristling over being told what to do and how to do it. Not unlike my own beloved country, they probably don’t having others dictate to them, and as a sovereign nation, want to do things their own way. If this is the case, while I strongly disagree with any decision to hunt whales, I applaud the ‘don’t tell us what to do’ sentiment. > \*\* …except that, like your own country’s UN membership, membership in the IWC is something the Japanese and Norwegians _chose_. When you don’t like the democratic process (the moratorium being something that got voted on), you don’t throw a hissy fit and expect not to be dissed. Japan liked the IWC just fine when all they did was regulate quotas. Now that world opinion in the forum has swung to a ban (and that’s only since the 80’s, lest we forget), Japan doesn’t abide by the rules. I think, as a _member_, it has an obligation to abide by the rules and _the spirit_ of the IWC moratorium. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/24 "2002-05-21T07:00:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\* > **Right Whale** > > Current population: Approximately [350 adults](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/01/0103_020110wirwhale.html). Life expectancy for females appears to have dropped from 50 years to [fifteen](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/11/1129_TVwhalesRtreport.html), according to some sources. Short-term outlook is encouraging; long term outlook has the big E written all over 'em. Some claim the name of the whale comes from its desirability; it has a large blubber content and is one of the easier ones to catch, hence it was the “right” whale to find. > \*\* …most specifically, Right Whales float when killed because of the blubber, meaning they can be towed rather than hauled aboard. I think I should point out, **Sofa** , that those numbers refer to the Northern Right population (I know the linked article mentions it, but not everyone follows links). The Southern Right population here in Walker Bay is doing quite nicely, with a steady annual increase. And that’s because they are left alone. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/25 "2002-05-21T07:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sofa King \* > \*\* > **Right Whale** > > Current population: Approximately [350 adults](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/01/0103_020110wirwhale.html). Life expectancy for females appears to have dropped from 50 years to [fifteen](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/11/1129_TVwhalesRtreport.html), according to some sources. Short-term outlook is encouraging; long term outlook has the big E written all over 'em. Some claim the name of the whale comes from its desirability; it has a large blubber content and is one of the easier ones to catch, hence it was the “right” whale to find. > \*\* …most specifically, Right Whales float when killed because of the blubber, meaning they can be towed rather than hauled aboard. I think I should point out, **Sofa** , that those numbers refer to the Northern Right population (I know the linked article mentions it, but not everyone follows links). The Southern Right population here in Walker Bay is doing quite nicely, with a steady annual increase. And that’s because they are left alone. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/26 "2002-05-21T07:13:01Z")
First double-post! Where’s my prize? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/27 "2002-05-21T07:28:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe \* > \*\* > **Marc** , you may also want to consider that whaling is a fundamentally cruel activity when compared to slaughtering farm animals, \*\* I engage in recreational fishing several times in any given year. The process involves getting a fish to bite on a metal hook, getting it lodged in his mouth real good, hauling him out of the water, sticking them in a live well where their oxygen supply decreased, and finally taking them out of the live well, gutting them, cleaning them, and at long last eating them. It sounds fairly cruel I guess but then millions of Americans enjoy doing the same thing as a recreational activity. > [@](#): > > \*\* > On the topic of Native N.A. tribes, of course it’s a matter of scale. \*\* You called whaling a fundamentally cruel activity. Isn’t it even more cruel for those scattered tribes in the frozen North to use primative means of dispatching a whale? What about that tribe in the North Western U.S. who used such traditional tribal whaling tools as metal harpoons and .50 caliber rifles? If you truly find the practice fundamentally cruel I don’t see how you can justify it on any scale. > [@](#): > > \*\* > economy decide that the recently increased consumer demand for whale meat is more important than an increasingly fragile natural patrimony. \*\* So at what point will whaling be a possiblity without putting the Minke whale at signifigant risk? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/28 "2002-05-21T08:23:07Z")
[Troy McClure] Don’t kid yourself Jimmy. If a whale ever got the chance, he’d eat you and everyone you care about! [/Troy McClure] ---
**Author:** ![Tsubaki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@Tsubaki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tsubaki)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/29 "2002-05-21T09:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*So at what point will whaling be a possiblity without putting the Minke whale at signifigant risk? > > Marc \*\* The point I want to make is that in Japan’s case I honestly cannot see why they feel the need to cull MORE. The fact that I can’t find whale meat readily in my supermarket (not that I wanted any, I was just looking out of curiosity) seems to tell me that its not a popular meat with the masses. The current numbers that they are taking should be sufficient. And much as I hate the practice, if WWF or Greenpeace have data that shows the Minke whales aren’t in danger of extinction, then I guess there’s no reason for it not to go on (except for the fact that they are sentient beings, but then you are getting into a different kind of argument). And I wish the Japanese whaling industry would simply call a spade a spade and ADMIT that they are taking the whales for human consumption, since everyone knows they are anyway. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/30 "2002-05-21T09:58:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tsubaki \* > **… And much as I hate the practice, if WWF or Greenpeace have data that shows the Minke whales aren’t in danger of extinction, then I guess there’s no reason for it not to go on (except for the fact that they are sentient beings, but then you are getting into a different kind of argument).** Speaking as the OP, I would have no objection to this thread heading in the direction of such an argument, as it’s one of my primary reasons for oppposition. My position is that the Japanese whalers have shown they are untrustworthy in this regard, therefore things _will_ get out of hand. I know that sounds like slippery-slope logic, but the case I’m making is that they are proven “criminals”\* and rule-benders when it comes to whaling, and that the probability of them being sustainable is not very high. \*Criminals in the sense of defying a moratorium on whaling when they are members of the IWC and should abide by it’s decisions ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/31 "2002-05-21T11:52:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tsubaki \* > \*\ ***China Guy** , I’m not saying that I don’t believe you 😉 but can you give the names of some towns who are totally reliant on whaling? I can’t help feeling that even if they are, there’s nothing stopping them from finding an alternative revenue source. Japanese people are nothing but resourceful. \*\* I’ve read this in Japanese newspapers over the years, and also when I travelled in Hokkaido. Specifically, all of these “sources” were talking about coastal towns and villages in Hokkaido. Don’t know if it is true or not, but it is true that the rural population has (had?) a disproportionate voting power. ---
**Author:** ![Abe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f1d935/32.png) [@Abe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Abe)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/32 "2002-05-21T11:56:13Z")
Marc, I specifically said, and you even quoted it- > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Abe_ > Marc, you may also want to consider that whaling is a fundamentally cruel activity when compared to slaughtering farm animals, How did you equivocate on that clear statement, especially when you quoted the entire thing inclusive of the “when compared” phrase? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > I engage in recreational fishing several times in any given year. Recreational fishing is a form of cruelty to animals. Not that I am passing judgement on the activity, but causing extended pain and death to an animal for no particular reason (i.e. your survival is hardly at stake, you are doing this for pleasure) is a form of cruelty. I think that the cruelty is partly determined by circumstance though, and I doubt anyone will complain if you set about fishing a population that has exploded beyond the environment’s capacity to sustain (like in the mountains of Austria, for example, where all you need to do is stick a hand in a stream and pick your trout). If you were fishing for species on the verge of extinction, I would say you were especially cruel. But if you intend to make this a discussion about cruelty, I suggest you open a new thread. It will be a thorny topic. > [@](#): > > You called whaling a fundamentally cruel activity. Isn’t it even more cruel for those scattered tribes in the frozen North to use primative means of dispatching a whale? What about that tribe in the North Western U.S. who used such traditional tribal whaling tools as metal harpoons and .50 caliber rifles? If you truly find the practice fundamentally cruel I don’t see how you can justify it on any scale. I don’t think it is “even more cruel”. Everyone survives how they can. Inuit use skidoos, guns, and radios these days–you are not suggesting that because they are Inuit and living in their original environment they ought to forsake all modern technology. Of course, ideally such tribes will avoid using a shotgun to fish for whale (or similar expedient), but my knowledge of what goes on there is limited. Some tribes depend on whaling and have done so for a very long time with little or no adverse effect on the environment; the same cannot be said of larger whaling nations. One of the interlocked problems here is sustainability. > [@](#): > > So at what point will whaling be a possiblity without putting the Minke whale at signifigant risk? I don’t know if it’s possible to get an answer to that question at this point, when populations are still not only in danger, but being decimated regularly. No one knows for sure if some whales can be saved, and I don’t know when the whale populations fished by the Japanese will recover, if they will have the chance to recover. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/33 "2002-05-21T19:16:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tsubaki \* > \*\* > > The point I want to make is that in Japan’s case I honestly cannot see why they feel the need to cull MORE. The fact that I can’t find whale meat readily in my supermarket (not that I wanted any, I was just looking out of curiosity) seems to tell me that its not a popular meat with the masses. \*\* How is that relevant? Frog legs weren’t a common dish in Dallas but it is more common here in Arkansas. Even then most of the restaurants I go to don’t actually serve frog legs. Frog legs might not be popular enough to appear on a McDonalds or TGIF menu but enough people eat it for it to be served some places. > [@](#): > > \*\* > The current numbers that they are taking should be sufficient. \*\* Not that your basing this off of anything more then pure speculation. If they weren’t convinced they could sell more whale why would they want to hunt more of them? Marc ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/34 "2002-05-21T19:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Abe \* > \*\* > But if you intend to make this a discussion about cruelty, I suggest you open a new thread. It will be a thorny topic. \*\* I’m just trying to get a good grasp on this whole cruelty thing as a valid reason to be against whaling. It seems rather odd that you would bring up cruelty as though it mattered and then turn around and say it was ok to be cruel under certain conditions. If that is the case then cruelty really isn’t an issue. > [@](#): > > \*\* > I don’t know if it’s possible to get an answer to that question at this point, when populations are still not only in danger, but being decimated regularly. No one knows for sure if some whales can be saved, and I don’t know when the whale populations fished by the Japanese will recover, if they will have the chance to recover. Why? \*\* Why? Because I suspsect there are those against whaling who will never admit that there is a point where whales can be safely harvested. Marc ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/35 "2002-05-22T01:30:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > \*\*I’m just trying to get a good grasp on this whole cruelty thing as a valid reason to be against whaling. It seems rather odd that you would bring up cruelty as though it mattered and then turn around and say it was ok to be cruel under certain conditions. If that is the case then cruelty really isn’t an issue. \*\* This is a false dichotomy. The relative cruelty of whaling is a factor, not a desideratum. The cruelty, plus the extinction issue, plus the difference between whaling for survival and whaling for commercial profit, all make a fairly compelling case that whaling should at least be restricted. Note that, despite your suspicions, no one has actually claimed that no whaling should ever occur. Personally, I think that sperm whales are probably safe to hunt in controlled batches; probably, any whale with a population over 50,000 is relatively safe to whale if there’s good evidence that whaling nations are abiding by the restrictions. I say 50,000 because it leaves plenty for genetic diversity within the species, plus a relatively safe cushion for population estimates that could be off off by a factor of 10. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/36 "2002-05-22T08:04:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hansel \* > \*\* > Note that, despite your suspicions, no one has actually claimed that no whaling should ever occur. \*\* errm, actually, I have done just that. I said “no justification”, after all. The only justification I can see in any modern society would be “It’s us or them”…as in “they’re maliciously sinking our ships and eating the survivors” Not “they taste nice”, not “tradition”, not “they’re in no danger of extinction”. I really don’t think the Japanese need the meat (given that its such a small % of the total, and seemingly hard-to-find). So, if you allow whaling, you are slaughtering sentient beings to feed a _luxury goods_ market, possibly endangering the livelihood of third-world nations that need the cash from ecotourism, and reducing biodiversity at a time when the marine ecosystem is in crisis. ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/37 "2002-05-22T11:44:44Z")
Well, aren’t I an asshole, then? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/38 "2002-05-22T12:02:06Z")
maybe…why, what have you done? killed any whales lately? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/39 "2002-05-22T17:04:00Z")
I beat a narwhal to death with a hammer… does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2002, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934/40 "2002-05-22T21:33:41Z")
mmm… whale… Actually I haven’t tried it, but I heard the meat available at the finer restaurants in Oslo is excellent. I disagree with Dibble that the whale is such a sentient animal. I mean, maybe that Shamu at Sea World. But Shamu’s been trained. I can’t speak for the Japanese, but the Norwegians are harvesting a sustainable number of Minke, and maintaining a way of life for these old coastal villages. What’s the harm? Also, I object to the hypocrisy of the IWC, not allowing Iceland back in as a member, while keeping Norway and Japan in the IWC. As discussed, Norway and Japan hunt whale, but Iceland voluntarily does not. They were kept out because Iceland would like to hunt, but another pro-hunting vote among the membership could tip things the wrong way, as far as the IWC is concerned. I think Iceland should just start hunting anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whaling-are-japan-and-norway-at-all-justified/109934.md?page=3)