# What a bunch of dicks! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 28, 2006, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452 "2006-07-28T20:27:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/41 "2006-07-29T23:21:00Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Now, I have to ask a serious question. Do you honestly think a company would hire legal workers at $2/hour if they could? Do you have any grasp of reality left to realize how fast that company would sink? [/QUOTE] Go to the library and check out a copy of _The Jungle_ by Upton Sinclair. Pay particular attention to the passages dealing with working conditions and how companies treated labor at the time. And after you’ve read it, ponder \*this \*serious question: Do you honestly think a company would \*\*not \*\*hire legal workers at $2/hour if they could? The company I work for has systematically gutted my benefits over the past ten years. They’ve taken away vacation time, reduced sick leave, fucked over our retirement plans, all in the name of “remaining competitive.” You bet your ass they’d hire legal workers at two bucks an hour if they could. And I’m talking about a major multi-national corporation here, not just some pissypants little corner sweatshop. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/42 "2006-07-30T00:13:41Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] Err..yeah…if by “most” you mean [18 out of 50](http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm), eight of which are small Northeastern states not called New York. Most states have the same state minimum wage as the federal, six don’t have any minimum wage at all, and one has a lower minimum wage than the federal; presumably those seven are hoping that the federal minimum wage is decreased somehow. $5.15 an hour is a ridiculous amount of money to try to make a living and go to school on\*. $6.75, California’s minimum wage, is not a rational wage to expect people to live on when contrasted against California living expenses. - OK, I concede I wouldn’t know if you can make it on $5.15 an hour in Wyoming. I know it’s pushin’ it in Arizona, though. [/QUOTE] Good call! I thought that more had higher MW. Note, however, that [several states with MW = 5.15 have already passed increases that kick in shortly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._state_minimum_wages) Namely, the not so tiny states of PA, MI, and NC. So, I’ll rephrase my statement as most Americans live in states where the MW \> 5.15. TX being the one very large state that stands out with a MW = 5.15. And lets not foget that municipalities often set MW higher than the state MW. The NM MW = 5.15, but in Santa Fe it’s 9.50. I don’t expect people to “live on” the MW. It’s meant to be an entry level wage-- anyone making MW for more than a few years needs to get some new skills. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/43 "2006-07-30T20:40:03Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] …I don’t expect people to “live on” the MW. It’s meant to be an entry level wage-- anyone making MW for more than a few years needs to get some new skills. [/QUOTE] Its “meant” for something? An entry level wage, which is, until such point of time that the entering worker has acheived as skill level that will justify a higher rate of pay. “Fries with that?” “No, no, ‘Do you _want_ fries with that’..” So, then, we could expect that rather few workers would be so poorly paid, just those workers who are “in training”? Do statistics support this rosy view, **John**? And about that rather brisk advice: “get some new skills”. But of course! A quick trip down to Skills 'R Us, perhaps, grab up some COBOL programming, or typewriter repair. Maybe something in the way “Entreprenuership 101”? OK, lets just buy that. Lets just go ahead and pretend it were that easy to apply new skills to oneself as simply as one buys new clothes (a sure sign of trouble, I’m given to understand…) Who, then, will do our scut work? Those jobs that we need, we demand, but jobs that don’t provide a leveraged bargaining position. Do we simply shrug our collective shoulders and say “Well, life isn’t fair, if you were smarter, you would have picked parents who could afford college…” How we treat the least of us is the measure of ourselves as a nation. I am not proud. How 'bout you? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/44 "2006-07-30T21:07:54Z")
[QUOTE=Robot Arm] It seems fair to me that if the minimum wage is to be adjusted for inflation, that the size of an estate before it becomes subject to taxes be similarly adjusted. [/QUOTE] The sheer reasonableness of this proposition is only belied by facts. Even before this bill was passed, the exemption on the estate tax was going up and up as a result of the 2001 tax cut. The exemption is being phased up from $675,000 in 2001 to $3.5 million in 2009. If the minimum wage were to keep up with this inflation, it would reach $26.71 in 2009. Insert your own wisecrack here. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/45 "2006-07-30T21:08:45Z")
I’m sort of late to the discussion, but there are several points about the pro-MW argument that I simply cannot grok. 1. Minimum wage workers are too stupid to learn new skills. “A quick trip to Skills 'R Us” is exactly the reason why those of us who make more than $5/hr do. Why is the idea of learning new skills so reprehensible? Yes, it’s a financial burden and requires discipline, but surely policies should be centred around helping people learn new skills? How would the minimum wage help this? 2. Employers owe their workers more than $2/hr. Why? Why does the employer owe their workers anything besides safe working conditions and the freedom to quit and seek new employment? I think that the minimum wage is a big component of the cost of fast food around here. I love fast food of all kinds, but because the MW makes it so expensive, Mcdonald’s burgers are only a rare luxury for me. So I must endure home cooked meals and a lower quality of life while both the owner of the Mcdonald’s and the worker suffer a loss of income. No one is winning here. I can understand the social engineering aspect of the MW, since presumably without it the proletariat will certainly launch into armed insurrection or some such, but I can’t see any moral or ethical justification for it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/46 "2006-07-30T21:48:14Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Its “meant” for something? An entry level wage, which is, until such point of time that the entering worker has acheived as skill level that will justify a higher rate of pay. “Fries with that?” “No, no, ‘Do you _want_ fries with that’..” So, then, we could expect that rather few workers would be so poorly paid, just those workers who are “in training”? Do statistics support this rosy view, **John**? [/quote] [Yes.](http://www.bls.gov/cps/minwage2002.htm) Only 2% of MW worders are 25 or older. If you want to quibble with my use of the word “meant”, I’ll come up with a better one. Somehow, I think you know what I “meant” by that word, though. > [@](#): > > And about that rather brisk advice: “get some new skills”. But of course! A quick trip down to Skills 'R Us… The word you can’t seem to think of is “school”. > [@](#): > > OK, lets just buy that. Lets just go ahead and pretend it were that easy to apply new skills to oneself as simply as one buys new clothes (a sure sign of trouble, I’m given to understand…) > > Who, then, will do our scut work? Those jobs that we need, we demand, but jobs that don’t provide a leveraged bargaining position. Do we simply shrug our collective shoulders and say “Well, life isn’t fair, if you were smarter, you would have picked parents who could afford college…” I don’t demand any jobs. But 25% of all MW workers are teenagers. I have no poblem with teenagers doing “scut work”. I did it, you porbably did it. It’s how you start, if you can’t do anything else. > [@](#): > > How we treat the least of us is the measure of ourselves as a nation. I am not proud. How 'bout you? The MW is not a good way to administer welfare, as we’ve discussed in every MW thread. A better approach would be something like the earned income tax credit. But I prefer these types of things done at the state level anyway. One size does not fit all. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/47 "2006-07-30T21:54:27Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] You are right…they would. Assuming they could get away with it of course. Get away with it? Yeah…IF they could find folks willing to work those jobs at that rate, then they certainly would do it. And if they could…well then, that sort of tells you something right there (well, it would tell ME something anyway). However, you said it yourself…these are ILLEGAL workers. Their choices and options are very limited. They usually don’t speak the language very well, they are usually uneducated and unskilled laborers working in niche, vertical markets (like the farm industry). This wouldn’t exactly translate into every business suddenly getting to rub their hands with glee and dropping their wages to the rock bottom. Because you (like many who make this arguement) have forgotten that labor works both ways…and the laborers ALSO get to choose if they wish to sell their labor at such a price. Perhaps some will…most won’t however. Most will determine that $2/hour isn’t worth it for their time and effort and so will go to the smart companies who are paying more…and thus actually have employees to work for them. The hand rubbing, top hatted fat cats, lighting their cuban cigars with $100 bills and offering jobs at $2/hour will rapidly find out that its kind of hard to run a business without employees… [/QUOTE] I think I’d like to live in your and **duffer’s** world – it sounds so nice! However, I think you seriously misunderestimate (sic) the degree of desperation that many, many poor people may feel in accepting _something_ instead of nothing when they’re hungry and need to sleep somewhere other than a cardboard box. Not to mention that in your scenario, there would be much fiercer competition for those jobs that employers are willing to pay more for, making those jobs much more difficult, if not impossible, for unskilled workers to even get. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/48 "2006-07-30T22:40:20Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Good call! I thought that more had higher MW. Note, however, that several states with MW = 5.15 have already passed increases that kick in shortly. Namely, the not so tiny states of PA, MI, and NC. So, I’ll rephrase my statement as most Americans live in states where the MW \> 5.15. TX being the one very large state that stands out with a MW = 5.15. And lets not foget that municipalities often set MW higher than the state MW. The NM MW = 5.15, but in Santa Fe it’s 9.50. Good info. (Apparently I need to move to LA or San Francisco!) But the only cites with any apparent connection to actual government agencies are the map I posted, one California site and one Washington site. I’m not saying those are dubious figures, but without substantial cites contradicting the DOL’s numbers it’s a little tougher to call balls and strikes. If those numbers are true, though, that _does_ make something of a difference; Pennsylvania is one of the most highly populated states (I’m almost positive it’s in the top 15) and MI and NC are not far behind IIRC. (I used to have the relative order pretty well memorized, but it’s shaky these days because I don’t really care as much anymore about the precise numbers.) > [@John Mace](#): > > I don’t expect people to “live on” the MW. It’s meant to be an entry level wage-- anyone making MW for more than a few years needs to get some new skills. Sorry, I wasn’t clear. What I meant was “live on for the few years it takes to learn skills/advance”. As in, “live on” throughout college or vocational school. I also don’t have much sympathy for anyone making MW for more than a few years unless there are extenuating circumstances (in which case our society should pick up a little bit of slack through other means, but I can’t pretend to be knowledgeable in the particulars of that). However, most of my classmates barely make ends meet for the several years they’re in college, compounded by the difficulties of student loans and the debt some of them get themselves into because of not being very educated about financial management. (If I ran the world every freshman would take a financial management class their first couple semesters, no matter their situation, but I digress.) What I’m sayin’ is we need to give people a reasonable wage to get through school on, at the very least. I live at home, but many of my friends who don’t, scrape the bottom of the barrel every month. $6.75 (CA MW) x 40 hours (a very liberal figure considering they’re full time students as well) = $270/wk \* 4 weeks = $1080/mo. Rent is $600/mo if you want to live within reasonable distance of school, gas was $3.219/gal the last time I filled up (low-octane, at a members-only discount station), San Diego is very hilly so it’s easy to suck up gas, car insurance is pretty darn expensive here, books suck out money in the hundreds each semester, and classes at my school cost $26 a unit for California residents. California is great about financial aid, but just living and driving ($45/mo for a student bus/trolley pass, but it takes an hour or two to get to class from most of the county and if you have to work too you can cut drastically into your working hours) on even a 40 hour workweek–which leaves a full-time student about negative four hours of free time a week after work and homework–on our state’s abnormally high minimum wage is a tight scrape. Again, that’s not even factoring books or classes in for unmarried students under 24 without military service (the vast majority at my college) whose parents claim them as dependents but don’t pay for their school expenses. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/49 "2006-07-30T23:14:30Z")
OK, so it seems many think Big Business would pay $2/hr if they could. Fine, I’m not going to argue the point. I’ll concede it. However, is this something that anybody thinks could honestly happen? Sure, in very limited and rare cases, but you get enough people making $2/hr and how the hell are they going to be able to afford to buy anything from the companies? How do the companies afford to pay that wage to workers when their sales all but dry up? I still think as a practical matter the idea is preposterous, but some see things differently I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/50 "2006-07-30T23:26:52Z")
It seems for the most part to be working very well by outsourcing jobs to factories with laxer child labor laws and a lack of minimum wage. What, you think they did that because they wanted to be nice and give people in other countries a shot at a good American owned company job? Of course not. Their primary focus is their bottom line. American workers are expensive and there are requirements (benefits for full time employees) that make them even more so. If it’s possible to find a way to maintain the same number of employees while cutting cost, they’ll do it. I think it’s rather amusing you’re treating the question as a hypothetical. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/51 "2006-07-30T23:27:43Z")
Enough people make well over minimum wage that sales would really not collapse the way you think they would. As we speak unbelievably massive numbers of illegal immigrants are being paid much less than minimum wage in my state alone. Hell, my local Wal-Mart probably has a pretty sizeable number of people making less than minimum wage on their payroll, and I wouldn’t be surprised if the same were true of the last apartment complex I lived in, nevermind the agriculture industry. Have you noticed the hullabaloo over illegal immigration? The reason it’s there is because people are coming in who are willing to work for less (in some cases much less) than minimum wage, and because the jobs are illegal and therefore unregulated, the employers gladly pay them those amounts. I would recommend a good read of _The Jungle_ and _Fast Food Nation_. Never read the first myself, but the latter contains a lengthy and well-supported deconstruction of the practice of hiring for less than minimum wage in illegal working conditions in the meat industry. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/52 "2006-07-30T23:28:10Z")
Gah. Outsourcing to _countries._ **COUNTRIES** with laxer child labor laws and no minimum wage requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2006, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/53 "2006-07-30T23:50:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Have you noticed the hullabaloo over illegal immigration? The reason it’s there is because people are coming in who are willing to work for less (in some cases much less) than minimum wage, and because the jobs are illegal and therefore unregulated, the employers gladly pay them those amounts. I would recommend a good read of The Jungle and Fast Food Nation. Never read the first myself, but the latter contains a lengthy and well-supported deconstruction of the practice of hiring for less than minimum wage in illegal working conditions in the meat industry. This seems to be a pretty good argument AGAINST the MW, since the MW is artificially distorting the market and making it profitable for employers to break the law and employ illegals under illegal conditions. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/54 "2006-07-31T00:05:53Z")
Er, no. They pay those wages because they can get away with it, period. Not because of some childlike rush from breaking the rules, but because the companies in question want to dole out as little money as possible. That’s why we outsource work to nations where the minimum wage and working conditions requirements are lower or nonexistent–there’s nothing illegal about it, it just saves the company money. If you really think the abolishment of wage laws would result in anything other than ubiquituous slavery (or something damn near close), frankly, I don’t know what to tell you. I feel sorry for your employers and your nation, though. Canada works damn hard to make sure you have a standard of living _miles and miles_ above anything the majority of the world’s population can ever dream of achieving, even in your worst times, and you don’t appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/55 "2006-07-31T00:11:53Z")
[QUOTE=fetus] …I would recommend a good read of _The Jungle_ and _Fast Food Nation_… [/QUOTE] _Nickle and Dimed to Death_, Barbara Ehrenriech. Nails it. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/56 "2006-07-31T00:30:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Er, no. They pay those wages because they can get away with it, period. Why is this a bad thing? Who is being harmed here? > [@](#): > > If you really think the abolishment of wage laws would result in anything other than ubiquituous slavery (or something damn near close), frankly, I don’t know what to tell you. Neither would I, but thanks for coming out. > [@](#): > > Canada works damn hard to make sure you have a standard of living miles and miles above anything the majority of the world’s population can ever dream of achieving, even in your worst times, and you don’t appreciate it. Key word there being **works**. Canada is rich and I make more than minimum wage because the **work** I do creates more than $2 of value per hour. Making a law to artificially inflate wages creates NO value, so it isn’t WORK. The artificial increase in wage isn’t conjured out of thin air like you suppose, it has to come from somewhere, if it’s fast food, it comes from the consumers like me who would have to forego luxuries like fast food because the goverment has in essence taxed it beyond my reach. If the Chinese/Pakistani/whatever goverment legislated that the MW in China/Pakistan to be $100/hour tomorow, do the workers all magically become SUV driving Iraq invading middle class Americans? It seems to work for you, so why not for them? I’m not a libertarian and I certainly think markets need to be regulated, but I can’t see it here. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/57 "2006-07-31T01:06:31Z")
[QUOTE=kawaiitentaclebeast] Why is this a bad thing? Who is being harmed here? [/quote] That depends on who you ask. The workers in other countries who take those low wage jobs are forced to work many, many hours just to keep up half the standard of living we have here. There are frequently more work injuries and a higher rate of child labor which keeps the area depressed and the education level low as more family members are forced to work in order to keep food and a roof. The unemployment rate in this country is increased, but is not necessarily seen to be a problem as people are no longer counted as unemployed when their unemployment benefit exhausts and many become self employed without any benefits they had working for a large company. This puts a further burden on them and the healthcare system dealing with patients who are unable to pay their medical bills. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/58 "2006-07-31T07:19:57Z")
> [@kawaiitentaclebeast](#): > > Why is this a bad thing? Who is being harmed here? The workers who carry the company on their backs but eat ramen and crackers every night. See also: Illegal immigrants. See also: Chinese sweat-shop workers. See also: Cow-slicers in Iowa who work with sharp mechanized tools operating far faster than they should be (to maximize production, you see) and whose career-ending injuries aren’t reported by their superiors (so that factory can win the company’s Safest Factory Award for having reported the fewest injuries) and who end up physically fucked up for life with no skills and no means to acquire them. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/59 "2006-07-31T11:02:02Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] OK, so it seems many think Big Business would pay $2/hr if they could. Fine, I’m not going to argue the point. I’ll concede it. However, is this something that anybody thinks could honestly happen? Sure, in very limited and rare cases, but you get enough people making $2/hr and how the hell are they going to be able to afford to buy anything from the companies? How do the companies afford to pay that wage to workers when their sales all but dry up? I still think as a practical matter the idea is preposterous, but some see things differently I guess. [/QUOTE] I’d say the very existence of the minimum wage laws argues strongly that, in a completely perfect wage market, the lowest skilled workers would be making less than the set minimum wage. Simply put, the actual value of production of those compensated at the MW level is less than what they’re being paid. So there would be SOME sort of race to the bottom as the market attempts to define what a true ‘minimum or no skill level’ employee is valued at per hour. Could be $2. Could be more. Could be less. But I’d say no one can say anything other than that it’s less than the current MW. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452/60 "2006-07-31T14:17:57Z")
> [@](#): > > The workers who carry the company on their backs but eat ramen and crackers every night. See also: Illegal immigrants. See also: Chinese sweat-shop workers. See also: Cow-slicers in Iowa who work with sharp mechanized tools operating far faster than they should be (to maximize production, you see) and whose career-ending injuries aren’t reported by their superiors (so that factory can win the company’s Safest Factory Award for having reported the fewest injuries) and who end up physically fucked up for life with no skills and no means to acquire them. Are they being forced to work under these conditions at gunpoint? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-bunch-of-dicks/366452.md?page=4)