# What a good idea! Let's have Lockheed fucking Martin conduct the Canadian census! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666 "2003-10-10T13:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/1 "2003-10-10T13:28:01Z")
[url=“[http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031009.wlock1009/BNStory/National/](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031009.wlock1009/BNStory/National/)”] > [@](#): > > An American military contractor will carry out most or part of the next Canadian census, the NDP said Thursday — a charge the federal government didn’t deny… > > The U.S.-based multinational company will work on the 2006 census, [NDP MP Bill] Blaikie said. > > He called it his worst nightmare — a U.S. defence contractor getting detailed information on Canada — and asked the government to confirm that a contract had been signed. > > Industry Minister Allan Rock refused to answer the question directly, saying only that Statistics Canada will ensure a thorough census. Oh my sweet fucking mother _goddess_, can this possibly be true?! I have never wished so much for my own party to be in error and I will be _very_ happy if this turns out to be inaccurate. I mean, what a good fucking idea! Let’s put an American weapons manufacturer in charge of gathering _detailed information about every single Canadian!_ I’m sure there isn’t the slightest possibility of abuse of the data or breach of confidence. Why didn’t we think of letting a foreign corporation collect and store confidential information about everyone in the country before?! I’ve got to fucking stop before I give myself an aneurysm. This is twenty kinds of fucked up. Please, please, please let this be a typo or something. Please. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/2 "2003-10-10T13:29:06Z")
Clickable URL: [U.S. defence contractor to count Canadian heads (Globe and Mail)](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20031009.wlock1009/BNStory/National/) ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/3 "2003-10-10T14:08:17Z")
Has someone been watching ‘Canadian Bacon’ again…? [http://www.dogeatdogfilms.com/hacker.jpg](http://www.dogeatdogfilms.com/hacker.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Derfel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bb73d2/32.png) [@Lord\_Derfel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Derfel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/4 "2003-10-10T14:10:31Z")
I don’t get it. Are you concerned that it’s a contractor performing the census or that it’s a defence company? I mean, your privacy concerns apply to any company that they could contract the census out to. In fact, I would hazard a guess that most defence contractors have a pretty good handle on the whole secrecy issue. American or Canadian, the risk of a breach of privacy is the same. I don’t think it makes a difference what country they’re located in. What sort of abuse are you expecting, anyways? I don’t think that you’d see an increase in junk mail telling you that you’re PRE-APPROVED! for financing of your very own Joint Strike Fighter. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/5 "2003-10-10T14:10:31Z")
Oh, **matt** , don’t you know that Our Corporate Overlords only have our best interests at heart. The Military/Industrial Complex would never put their own interests above ours. Please report to the reprogramming area immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/6 "2003-10-10T14:21:47Z")
I agree. What’s the big deal? It’s just census questions and if Canada’s census is anything like the US, the questions are fairly benign. How many people in the household? Race? Religion? Ethnicity? Income? I can see how Lockheed-Martin could abuse that information so easily. It is weird having a company that, AFAIK, has never conducted a census before do it. But there’s a first time for everything, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Blackclaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e68b1a/32.png) [@Blackclaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackclaw)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/7 "2003-10-10T14:21:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\* > I mean, what a good fucking idea! Let’s put an American weapons manufacturer in charge of gathering _detailed information about every single Canadian!_ \*\* You’re on to us. Once we have that valuble census data we can develop anti-Canadian weapons that will have maximum effects on Canada’s largest age median, income level, and family size. At last we will be free of your insistance on calling what is quite clearly ham, bacon. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/8 "2003-10-10T15:04:04Z")
“General! Ottowa’s got 8400 more residents than we’d realized!” “Dear God… go to DefCon 2.” ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/9 "2003-10-10T15:11:52Z")
Nobody sees this? I don’t want to give detailed information about my address, citizenship, ethnicity, religion, languages, sexual orientation, education, occupation, or income to a corporation under _any_ circumstances. Let alone a foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign _weapons contractor!_ ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/10 "2003-10-10T15:15:56Z")
Once a giant foreign weapons contractor gets wind you make $40K, have a degree in Art History and work as a movie projectionist, there’s no stopping them… ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/11 "2003-10-10T15:17:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*Nobody sees this? I don’t want to give detailed information about my address, citizenship, ethnicity, religion, languages, sexual orientation, education, occupation, or income to a corporation under _any_ circumstances. Let alone a foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign _weapons contractor!_ \*\* _I_ know most of that stuff about you, matt, and I’m just a hick from SC. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/12 "2003-10-10T15:26:14Z")
this is information only you and your government should have access to, certainly not a foreign weapons manufacturer. Why on earth would LM be interested in doing a census anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/13 "2003-10-10T15:31:13Z")
If they really wanted that kind of information for their own purposes couldn’t hey just use a satellite like Major League Baseball does? ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/14 "2003-10-10T15:54:18Z")
You know, if Lockheed Martin had really wanted to gather all of this super-secret information, you’d think they could just wait for someone else to gather it and [make it public](http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Standard/Index.cfm) rather than go to the effort themselves. I know that the population of New Brunswick was 729,498 in 2001 and I didn’t even have to take the census myself. And that there were 191,780 women 26 years of age in all of Canada. AND that in Edmundston there are _ten women aged 35-39 that are widowed yet no men in that age bracket that are widowers_. Or maybe they just put together the most attractive bid and won the contract. Dunno. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/15 "2003-10-10T16:26:44Z")
**lno** , the government doesn’t make the confidential information public; if I write that I’m pagan, all the government publishes is _how many_ pagans there were. However, my original census sheet, which is protected by law, has my name, address, SIN number IIRC, all kinds of personal information, and can be used to associate all my answers with me. I don’t want anyone but Statistics Canada to have access to that information. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/16 "2003-10-10T16:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*You know, if Lockheed Martin had really wanted to gather all of this super-secret information, you’d think they could just wait for someone else to gather it and [make it public](http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Standard/Index.cfm) rather than go to the effort themselves. > > I know that the population of New Brunswick was 729,498 in 2001 and I didn’t even have to take the census myself. And that there were 191,780 women 26 years of age in all of Canada. AND that in Edmundston there are _ten women aged 35-39 that are widowed yet no men in that age bracket that are widowers_. > > Or maybe they just put together the most attractive bid and won the contract. Dunno. \*\* Well, i think **Matt** was worried not so much about the summary of census information–which is always made public–but rather that L-M might have access to specific information about individuals. Whether this is a concern or not would depend on how the census is carried out in Canada . Do you put your name and address on the form, or does it just contain the general iniformation? Is there any way for the census collector to tie specific information to specific individuals? A barcode or ID number that is specific to your form? The best way to fight something like this is to appeal to rampant nationalism. You get up and make a big fuss about “Why is an American company doing the Canadian census? Why don’t we give the jobs to Canadians?” This sort of thing might be irrational and jingoistic, but it tends to work better than appeals to privacy or anti-military concerns, and you can even get some of the right-wing ditto-heads on board. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/17 "2003-10-10T16:28:59Z")
From [Statscan:](http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Info/confident.cfm) > [@](#): > > The Statistics Act requires that all personal census information be kept confidential. No one outside Statistics Canada is permitted access to individual census information. These data are released only after they have been added to similar information from other households, and rounded. No detailed data are released for areas with a population of less than 40 people. > > All interviewers and other Statistics Canada employees, must take an oath of secrecy when they are hired. Only employees who have a need to examine individual census questionnaires have access to completed questionnaires. The Statistics Act contains penalties in the form of a fine of up to $1,000 or a jail term of up to six months or both if an employee releases personal census information. Emphasis mine. Which means that this is probably _illegal_, not just frightening. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/18 "2003-10-10T16:40:25Z")
Just be glad they didn’t hire AOL/Time Warner to do it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/19 "2003-10-10T16:49:50Z")
So why do you trust Statscan to protect your private information if you don’t trust LM? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/20 "2003-10-10T16:58:12Z")
It’s fishy, but the article doesn’t tell me much. Who used to do it and what happened to them? How often does the census happen–is it a mandatory thing like it is for us? Is L-M going to be hiring the little old ladies that go around the neighborhood knocking on your door, or just crunching numbers fed to it? And why wouldn’t the gummint put in the contract where the info should be stored–why would it ever need to be in the States to begin with? As for the privacy, Census Bureau employees have gone to jail rather than reveal stuff to the FBI, etc. It’s taken very seriously and I doubt Canadian officials would be any less careful. Has leaking info been a problem with StatsCan before? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666.md?page=2)