# What a good idea! Let's have Lockheed fucking Martin conduct the Canadian census! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2003, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666 "2003-10-10T13:28:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/81 "2003-10-13T18:53:36Z")
_sigh_, no SO. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/82 "2003-10-13T20:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Oh yeah? > > [These](http://www.nogaymarriage.com/canadamarriage.asp) [people](http://www.nationalreview.com/kurtz/kurtz061303.asp) [seem](http://family.org/cforum/feature/a0026539.cfm) [to](http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2003/09/10/182378-ap.html) [care](http://www.gopusa.com/dougpatton/dp_0901.shtml). [Republican Rep. Marilyn Musgrave](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90935,00.html) does, too. \*\* Ah, but they care only in terms of a case study. None of those people called on Canada to repeal it’s recognition of gay marriages. None of them said we should invade Canada and stop the evil. They said, this is how it was done up there, that is how it probably will be done here and if we want to stop it, these are the steps we should take. Not that I agree with them. Again, though, what exactly is everyone afraid of? This question keeps getting raised, and the only answer **scott evil** has come up with is “They’re AMERICAN! And a CORPORATION! **CAN’T YOU SEE???** They’re EEEEVVVIIIIIILL!”. Well, no, I can’t. So, please, spell it out in a way that doesn’t make you seem like a tinfoil wearing lunatic. And the other one was “They’ll know where the Canadian Muslims live.” First off, in the highly unlikely event that the information does get passed on to the US government, so what? Are you afraid that the US government is going to start disappearing Canadian Muslims? Please. In short, get over yourselves. The US government doesn’t care that you’re Canadian, gay, atheist or whatever. I’m sorry you’re paranoid. And yes, in answer to the question about whether I would care about a foreign corporation having access to my information would I be as blase? I would. If the government of China called up and asked me for my address, phone number, income, religion and ethnicity I’d tell them. I can’t see what harm it could possibly do, except maybe increase my junkmail a bit. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/83 "2003-10-13T20:43:38Z")
> [@](#): > > {{Wonders where matt is…}} That would be family Thanksgiving in Ontario. > [@](#): > > I’m under the impression that Matt’s entirely of British Isles descent. Well, except for those Korean-Bohemian-American and Prince Edward County German grandmothers of mine, pretty much. And to clarify, for me it’s primarily about the corporation thing; to use a giant Canadian weapons manufacturer to collect the census data would bother me nearly as much. The fact that it’s a foreign corporation would make it that much less difficult to control. I am not interested in any corporation at all having detailed information about my identity, demographics, or income. I choose not to submit that information to companies with which I do business; I am _absolutely_ opposed to being forced to do it by law, especially to the likes of Lockheed Martin. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/84 "2003-10-13T20:46:17Z")
That should be, “that much **more** difficult to control.” ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/85 "2003-10-13T21:07:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by matt\_mcl \* > \*\*I am not interested in any corporation at all having detailed information about my identity, demographics, or income. I choose not to submit that information to companies with which I do business \*\* So, are you saying that you don’t want anyone to try and sell you a subscription to _Gay & Socialist Monthly_? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/86 "2003-10-13T21:23:26Z")
> [@](#): > > So, are you saying that you don’t want anyone to try and sell you a subscription to Gay & Socialist Monthly? Definitely not. I let my subscription lapse when it turned into a fashion spread. (Fur babushkas are _so_ 1920s.) ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/87 "2003-10-13T21:31:57Z")
Don’t fucking sell me short, **Neurotik**. I came up with more reasons than that. And I think **matt** should elaborate more, since it’s his OP, instead of poo-pooing 1920s-style fur babushkas. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2003, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/88 "2003-10-13T21:36:56Z")
And given the recent (well, ongoing) fabricated war (GWB’s virtual Viagra), I don’t think concern over dishonesty and easily-forced hands within the U.S. military-industrial complex - which you all seem to think is a wonderful, noble, glorious thing - is restricted any longer to tinfoil hat-wearing conspiracy freaks. What I see going on in your country is frightening. And my fiancé, who got his Canadian citizenship this February, is _really_ glad he got out when he did. But that’s for another discussion. I’m done here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/89 "2003-10-14T00:03:56Z")
"Lockheed fucking Martin " Little early don’t you think? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/90 "2003-10-14T01:24:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scott evil \* > \*\*Don’t fucking sell me short, **Neurotik**. I came up with more reasons than that. \*\* I’m not selling you short, since you haven’t come up with more reasons than that. You’ve been shrill and irritating, but no, you’re reasons pretty much boil down to 1. It’s an American company and I don’t trust Americans or their corporations, 2. They’ll know where the Arabs are. You have yet to tell anyone what you actually are afraid of the American government or Lockheed Martin doing. But just in case, let me review. I’ll leave out your responses to the nitwit **Extraneous**. Response #1: > [@](#): > > I would say it’s the Americanness, sorry, and I’m with matt on this one. OK, no elaborations there. Just reason #1. Reponse #2 > [@](#): > > I. Do. Not. Trust. The. U.S. Government. And. Or. Military. Complex. > > I mean, they fabricated evidence for a war (IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO don’t fucking JUMP down my throat unless you’re 9 inches and cut)… They practise racial profiling (including suspending civil liberties of certain arrested parties - read: those of Middle-Eastern origin - in the name of “national security”). > > And you try to point these things out. What do you get? The shrill, tired, “9-11! 9-11! How dare you! This is because of 9-11! We lost 3000 people! 9-11!” instead of any kind of justification. > > And I don’t want those fuckers - who can be bought, coerced, or forced in the name of Old Glory - to have that level of delicate, personal information on me, or the rest of my fellow Canadians. > > Why is that so hard for some of you to understand? Well, we’re all still trying to figure out what you are afraid the US government would do with that information. So far, we’ve got both reason #1 and reason #2 in this thread. Have yet to encounter anything beyond those two. Response #3: > [@](#): > > Yeah, we socialist faggots have nothing to worry about with the U.S. government potentially having access to that information. Reason #1 again. Response #4: > [@](#): > > Baddies? Who are your “baddies?” Arabs? Muslims? I guess they’ll all be checking “Caucasian” and “Christian” on their census forms. Otherwise they might identify themselves as “baddies,” and quite frankly, I think that’s what you’re trying to say. God forbid they should be rounded up and interrogated and detained without charges - oh wait, that’s already happening in your country. Reason #2 again. Response #6: > [@](#): > > I don’t think not wanting a big-ass American company compiling very delicate information on individual citizens of another, sovereign country - one that happened to put its foot down in not supporting a pre-fab war, and one that won’t back down on its commitment to legalizing queer marriage just because the “sleeping elephant” down south doesn’t like it - is paranoid. Reason #1 again. Response #7: > [@](#): > > So many of you who have posted are just so incredibly off-base … you seem to have no idea why this kind of thing would concern Canadian citizens. Christ on a crouton. You’re doing nothing to dispel the stereotype of the dense American not knowing or caring about Canada. Case in point, the above quote. Reason #1 again. And, I might add, you are doing nothing to dispel the stereotype of the insecure Canadian with an inferiority complex. Which is, I suspect, what this is actually about. Barring an explanation of what you are actually afraid the US government would do with Canadian census information. So in short, no, you haven’t actually come up with more reasons than the two I mentioned. Hence, I think you are paranoid. > [@](#): > > **And I think matt should elaborate more, since it’s his OP, instead of poo-pooing 1920s-style fur babushkas.** He did elaborate. He said he just had a problem with any private corporation having a problem with that since he goes to pains to avoid giving that information out on a daily basis to corporations, he doesn’t want to be legally mandated to give it to them. I don’t think he has much to worry about, but I can also see the principle of the thing. You, on the other hand, have a paranoid fear of the US. Make sure your tinfoil is on tight. I hear the new improved American mind control rays will be even more effective once they know how much you make. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/91 "2003-10-14T01:38:00Z")
Fuck off. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/92 "2003-10-14T01:39:20Z")
Just kidding. 😛 No, no, you’re right, I’ve been in a shrill mood. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/93 "2003-10-14T01:47:28Z")
I just didn’t explain clearly enough. I don’t have time to now. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/94 "2003-10-14T02:00:53Z")
And, FTR, **matt** _did_ go further - it’s not just a matter of his not wanting to give personal information to a corporation: > [@](#): > > Nobody sees this? I don’t want to give detailed information about my address, citizenship, ethnicity, religion, languages, sexual orientation, education, occupation, or income to a corporation under any circumstances. Let alone a foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign corporation, let alone a giant foreign weapons contractor! So take him on. He started the OP. ---
**Author:** ![scott\_evil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/91b2a8/32.png) [@scott\_evil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scott_evil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/95 "2003-10-14T02:06:12Z")
Hit ‘submit’ too soon. What should have been bolded was: > [@](#): > > **Let alone a giant foreign weapons contractor!** Whatever. The irony is your username. Fuck this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/96 "2003-10-14T02:49:42Z")
What’s ironic about my username? The fact that I spelled it incorrectly? I never saw the irony in that until now. Now I can pretend to be clever. Yay! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/97 "2003-10-14T03:25:10Z")
To be fair to Scott, the fact that it’s an American company does bother me, insofar as, being American, it is foreign, which I covered above. I also find it interesting that certain people still believe that mentioning what province I live in is an effective counter-argument. ---
**Author:** ![Fyodor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/958977/32.png) [@Fyodor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fyodor)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/98 "2003-10-14T03:46:27Z")
About 20 years ago a bunch of Statistics Canada civil servants were caught processing and marketing to outside parties the data they had access to. They were fairly high up in the civil service and their defense was that they were doing it on their own time, a defense which succeeded and they were not fired or disciplined. Don’t sweat it Matt, any foreign agent with a few bucks can probably go to our nation’s capital and buy all the data needed. ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/99 "2003-10-14T04:02:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by scott evil \* > **Yeah, we socialist faggots have _nothing_ to worry about with the U.S. government potentially having access to that information. :rolleyes:** Uh, Scott. Why are you so worried about a US company getting census information? I think you are misplacing your anger because of some personal Anti-US agenda you have. Shouldn’t you be more worried about your own government for giving it away in the first place? It is not as if the Americans put a gun to our head and said, “Give us your census data!”. No, we willingly gave it to them probably to save a couple of Beaver Bucks. And frankly, anything that saves the government some money is fine by me. Maybe they’ll pick less from my pocket come tax time (not holding my breath, though). ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2003, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666/100 "2003-10-14T04:15:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Shouldn’t you be more worried about your own government for giving it away in the first place? What makes you think he isn’t? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-have-lockheed-fucking-martin-conduct-the-canadian-census/206666.md?page=6)