# What a good idea! Let's visit a country and tape a show that insults its populace. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2004, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018 "2004-02-13T09:04:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/101 "2004-02-13T20:54:21Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > P.S. Although I agree with many of the things **Elenfair** said, she’s wrong to suggest that French-Canadians are the Canadian minority that has suffered the most racism. I would argue that that’s been the First Peoples, myself. But French-Canadians have indeed had more than their share. Okay, that’s totally true. Although I do agree with Elly that racism against Quebecois is currently more acceptable than against First Nations. ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/102 "2004-02-13T20:58:56Z")
> [@KarmaComa](#): > > Do you think that it would be tasteless and offensive for him to go to Germany and make analogous Nazi jokes? **YES. I. DO. I HATE NAZI JOKES OF ALL SORTS** Which is why I said you Folks from Quebec aren’t the only put upon group in the world, or even the MOST put upon group in the world. NOR did I say the ‘learn the language’ joke was funny. I’m just failing to see the horrifying racism in “hey fat guy, trying separating yourself from the donuts.” While it may be tasteless or not funny…it isn’t really UNDERMINING THE CAUSE of the Separatist movement. I felt Eats Crayons reaction to that was over the top. THE END. ---
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/103 "2004-02-13T20:58:59Z")
> [@Balduran](#): > > I say a bad investment. Sure it may increase tourism a bit, but it will cause problems when Quebecois see Ontarians yukking it up at their expense. Then we’ll need more hundreds of millions (with the appropriate amount skimmed off the top of course) to promote federalism in Quebec. I was thinking of the investment _a priori_, i.e. not knowing that it would be so offensive. I agree. You know, I think Quebec should separate. As long as I can still go there, because I’m probably moving there in September. 🆒 And Matt, I agree that there’s a Quebecois ethnicity, but I am actually having a hard time explaining to myself why I don’t think there’s a Southern ethnicity. Can you help me out, brother? ---
**Author:** ![Elenfair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cc9497/32.png) [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/104 "2004-02-13T21:01:13Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > P.S. Although I agree with many of the things **Elenfair** said, she’s wrong to suggest that French-Canadians are the Canadian minority that has suffered the most racism. I would argue that that’s been the First Peoples, myself. But French-Canadians have indeed had more than their share. Ok. I’ll grant you that. You are quite right - the people of the first nations have certainly gotten the short end of the stick. I must also make the following note: the Canadians most picked on _by humorists and comedians_ are probably the Newfoundlanders… P.S.: Why do you pick on me today… today, the day the inventor of the poutine diiiiiiied! ☹😃 Guess what I’m having for dinner, damnit. P.P.S.: Irish surnames in Quebec - yeah, that Heritage moment clip is quite correct - Quebecois families adopted boatloads (literally) of irish famine orphans but the government believed it was right to let them keep their heritage and their own identity… and let them keep their names. That’s often why, even today, you’ll come across some Johnsons and O’Reillys in Quebec City who hardly speak a word of english 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/105 "2004-02-13T21:02:26Z")
**matt** , I’d say that ethnicity is the wrong way to look at it. I’d say shared historical context makes more sense. In my view, your Catalonian example would have _becoming_ more and more Catalonian as you lived there. That’s my view though, and it certainly wasn’t the view I was ever exposed to in Quebec. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/106 "2004-02-13T21:07:37Z")
And I appreciate the explanations of the nature of Conan’s alleged humour. In general, it sounds like a stupid idea, but as has been pointed out, I don’t have to watch the show. What I do find disturbing is that the gummint dished out a bunch of money for the privilege of ethnic insults against a part of our population. It was in bad taste for Conan to make those insults having accepted the money, but it is, in hindsight, a really bad idea for the government to have paid for the same. And I find it completely reprehensible for the audience in Toronto to have laughed at it. No wonder this thing never seems to end. The same would go for insults of a similar level by a Québécois comedian against Anglos, which I also don’t care to watch or have funded by the government. ---
**Author:** ![KarmaComa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e36b37/32.png) [@KarmaComa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarmaComa)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/107 "2004-02-13T21:10:42Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > NOR did I say the ‘learn the language’ joke was funny. I’m just failing to see the horrifying racism in “hey fat guy, trying separating yourself from the donuts.” While it may be tasteless or not funny…it isn’t really UNDERMINING THE CAUSE of the Separatist movement. I felt Eats Crayons reaction to that was over the top. THE END. Go back a couple of pages. EC never said that the donuts joke was racist, and I don’t think anyone did. He said, about that specific joke, that it was “treading on dangerous water” (is that a mixed metaphor?)… It IS treading on dangerous water, because it’s a heated political issue. - Donut joke: I think it’s dangerous territory (i.e. controversial), but I don’t think it’s racist. I do, however, think it is demonstrative of the lack of understanding that ‘Triumph’ had going into the routine. If he had stopped there, it might even have been funny (IMO). - Language joke: Racist and hateful. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/108 "2004-02-13T21:11:01Z")
> [@](#): > > A German officer and his driver are whizzing along a country road when a dog rushes out and is hit by their car. Spotting a nearby farm house, the driver is sent up to inform the occupants of the demise of their pet. He returns with an armload of food and wine. The officer is amazed. > > “Why did they give you that?” > > “I do not know. All I did was knock on the door and say Heil Hitler! The dog is dead!” Please tell me, jar. Is that offensive to you because you’re of German descent? ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/109 "2004-02-13T21:12:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This reminds me of the furor over Dame Edna’s comments about learning Spanish being helpful so you could speak to the gardener. > > If you knew who Dame Edna was, no big deal. Out of context, it’s outrageous. I think this needs repeating. When I read the link and Triumph’s comments, I was shocked. When it was explained that this was his schtick, he does it to everyone, don’t worry about it, I let it go. I myself didn’t care for his humour, but that’s just me. Obviously, I don’t watch Conan. Problem is, there’s a _lot_ of francophone Quebecois out there who don’t watch Conan either. From what I understand (PQ Dopers, please correct me if I’m wrong), some Quebecois will not watch any North American English programming. They stick solely to French Canadian/French shows. Nor would many be able to understand a word of the show if they were made to watch it. 'Member, just 'cause the country’s bilingual, doesn’t mean all the citizens are. So then it comes down to context. People who were offended by Dame Edna’s comments were told there was no reason to be upset because “You just don’t get it! It’s a guy! Dressed up like an old lady! And he makes fun of people! That’s what he does!” They, understandably, replied that they’d never heard of Dame Edna and from the description, wouldn’t want to have anything to do with Dame Edna. They didn’t see the humour and had no desire to change their minds based on someone’s vague description of it. Particularly when they’re being told to lighten up at the same time. Goes the same way for Triumph: “You just don’t get it! It’s a sock puppet! With a cigar in his mouth! And he makes fun of people! That’s what he does!” Based on that description, I myself have no particular desire to watch him. And I can guarantee that there’ll be a lot of francophones out there who will be unwilling to change their minds based on that. It’s all context, and unfortunately, Quebec has a lot of people who will be unwilling and unable to understand it. They don’t watch English programming and don’t want to. They’ll see reports of an American show making fun of very sensitive issues and take it from there. ---
**Author:** ![Kwyjibo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/59ef9b/32.png) [@Kwyjibo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kwyjibo)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/110 "2004-02-13T21:15:33Z")
> [@LaurAnge](#): > > Okay, that’s totally true. Although I do agree with Elly that racism against Quebecois is currently more acceptable than against First Nations. As well as the racism against Scots! I mean really!!! Grounds Keeper Willie? For SHAME! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/111 "2004-02-13T21:16:31Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > And I find it completely reprehensible for the audience in Toronto to have laughed at it. OK OK OK. Let’s stop for a minute. It’s Friday afternoon and I hate being all riled up before I go home. Is it because I’m twit who loves Triumph? Maybe. I want to stop this crazy screaming back and forth, as much as screaming can be conveyed via typed words. Let me just do a quick bulleted list of my position and perhaps how it has changed given further posts on the topic. 1. Is it OUR fault that Torontonians laughed at the Quebec jokes? Or are you expressing anger at the Torontonians 2. I do not think, out of context “learn the language” is a funny joke. It is LESS offensive to me because I know Triumph and I know that he leaves no stone unturned when offending people. It’s akin to the old Andrew Dice Clay act. 3. I do think “try separating yourself from the donuts” is funny. I do. I’m sorry. I don’t think it’s detrimental to the cause of separatism. 4. Perhaps I’m not understanding correctly, but if I am, I find the whole business of separatism sad. In this world where we try desperately to bring people and nations together, it seems like this is a group that wants further separation. Maybe I’m wrong here. I don’t live there. 5. Does Elenfair believe everyone who likes Triumph is a twit? 6. I do not believe Quebecois Separatists are the ‘last acceptable stereotype to pick on’ 7. Is it ok to make fun of Newfies, since you brought that up? I don’t like being thought of as dense or thick headed, but I can see that in the heat of emotion I can speak incoherently, and not word things right. So that’s that. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/112 "2004-02-13T21:17:51Z")
> [@Kwyjibo](#): > > As well as the racism against Scots! I mean really!!! > > Grounds Keeper Willie? > > For SHAME! 😛 I don’t watch the Simpsons. Umm… because of the racism against Scots contained within. Yep, that’s the ticket. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/113 "2004-02-13T21:19:09Z")
> [@Aguecheek](#): > > People who were offended by Dame Edna’s comments were told there was no reason to be upset because “You just don’t get it! It’s a guy! Dressed up like an old lady! And he makes fun of people! That’s what he does!” Whoah, back up. Dame Edna’s a man? Does this have anything to do with Jerry Lewis? ---
**Author:** ![tiny\_ham](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a183cd/32.png) [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/114 "2004-02-13T21:20:01Z")
> [@lno](#): > > Please tell me, jar. Is that offensive to you because you’re of German descent? Um no. There’s a difference between jokes making FUN of NAZIS and jokes which imply the all too common thought that all Germans are or were NAZIs. But that’s a whole different thread. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/115 "2004-02-13T21:21:56Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > **matt** , I’d say that ethnicity is the wrong way to look at it. I’d say shared historical context makes more sense. In my view, your Catalonian example would have _becoming_ more and more Catalonian as you lived there. That’s my view though, and it certainly wasn’t the view I was ever exposed to in Quebec. I agree with you in one sense – after all, ‘belonging’ to a given cultural context involves many factors. Although I would never become of Catalan ethnicity, I hope if I moved to Catalonia, I would become more and more Catalan in that _cultural_ sense, as indeed I would become Catalan in a legal sense. Hell, I’ve only lived in Quebec for eight years and I’m always making jokes about being _plus papiste que le Pape_ when it comes to Québécois heritage. I guess you could say I’m ‘becoming more Québécois’ in that way. And if Tom and I adopted a kid here, I would want them to grow up in a Québécois, Anglophone-Canadian, and Canadian cultural context, so they could identify culturally with all three, regardless of their genealogy. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/116 "2004-02-13T21:28:54Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > Um no. There’s a difference between jokes making FUN of NAZIS and jokes which imply the all too common thought that all Germans are or were NAZIs. But that’s a whole different thread. Ah, thanks for the clarification. Considering your last comment on the matter was “ **YES. I. DO. I HATE NAZI JOKES OF ALL SORTS** ” it seemed that you did indeed mean Nazi jokes of all sorts. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/117 "2004-02-13T21:29:42Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. Is it OUR fault that Torontonians laughed at the Quebec jokes? Or are you expressing anger at the Torontonians No, it is not your fault. I don’t think you actually needed me to tell you that. And if Conan wanted people to laugh at offensive things said about French Canadians, TO is the place to go. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. I do not think, out of context “learn the language” is a funny joke. It is LESS offensive to me because I know Triumph and I know that he leaves no stone unturned when offending people. It’s akin to the old Andrew Dice Clay act. Again, I agree. It’s not funny, and it is offensive, whether more or less. I myself don’t think it’s worth getting terribly offended over. It’s stupid, but I don’t like that kind of humour. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. I do think “try separating yourself from the donuts” is funny. I do. I’m sorry. I don’t think it’s detrimental to the cause of separatism. Of all the things I’ve heard he said, that is the funniest. Doesn’t make it actually funny to me though. To each their own. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. Perhaps I’m not understanding correctly, but if I am, I find the whole business of separatism sad. In this world where we try desperately to bring people and nations together, it seems like this is a group that wants further separation. Maybe I’m wrong here. I don’t live there. I think a lot of the snipping that has been going on has been because people with maybe less understanding of the political situation here have been trying to dictate to those who are in the thick of it. I think that any attempt to sumarize seperatism in one sentence will fail. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. Does Elenfair believe everyone who likes Triumph is a twit? I doubt it. She may well think the person writing the jokes is a twit, though. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. I do not believe Quebecois Separatists are the ‘last acceptable stereotype to pick on’ I think there is a lot of genuine (as opposed to joking) bad blood between English and French Canadians. I think that the picking on they get has to be seen as serious. > [@jarbabyj](#): > > 1. Is it ok to make fun of Newfies, since you brought that up? Hee. Actually, my father was born in Newfoundland. I am a pretty sensitive person, and I spent a lot of my childhood being offended at Newfie jokes. I now realize that people don’t actually think Newfies are dumb. So I’m okay with it. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Daddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Bruce\_Daddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bruce_Daddy)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/118 "2004-02-13T21:32:29Z")
Hell, The South has been looking for a teammate to rise up with for years. Which side are we on, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/119 "2004-02-13T21:33:13Z")
The problem with Triumph’s bit last night was that it just. wasn’t. funny. He’s been funny before and he’ll be funny again but last night was just not his night. Offensive and funny can work, but unless it’s really hits a satirical mark, it’s just going to be really really offensive. He didn’t really have any polished jokes that weren’t rip offs of France stereotypes (France and Quebec… not the same thing. Though I suppose that wouldn’t really get noticed by Americans). Smigel was lazy but with a little research could have come up with something that was actually funny and still pushed buttons. The “learn to speak the language” thing came about from obvious frustration as he was trying to insult people but wasn’t able to find anyone that spoke English so his stuff was falling flat. For another idea of how this is coming across, think Ozzy pissing on the Alamo, though maybe not to the same degree. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018/120 "2004-02-13T21:33:52Z")
> [@lno](#): > > Whoah, back up. Dame Edna’s a man? > > Does this have anything to do with Jerry Lewis? Hate to break it to you, but [yes.](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0402032/) And if, by saying “anything to do with Jerry Lewis,” you mean that once again you’ll be the target of ridicule and derision from your girlfriend as a result of your cultural misconceptions, then…probably. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-good-idea-lets-visit-a-country-and-tape-a-show-that-insults-its-populace/229018.md?page=7)