# What A Sorry F\*\*\*ing Mess. (Health Care) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 18, 2010, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869 "2010-03-18T12:35:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/21 "2010-03-21T13:44:37Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > This one “Payments to private insurance companies that run Medicare Advantage plans would be frozen in 2011, which Democrats say would eliminate overpayments.” doesn’t even make sense. Overpayments don’t happen because company X is getting Y amount of money. There’s answers to all of that, of course, but I’m tired, so I’ll just address this one – the whole Medicare Advantage program was a big screw-up. By phasing it out, it’ll automatically reduce the deficit. MA was created in the Bush years – a group of insurance companies came and said “we can provide the same care as Medicare to Medicare patients at 80% of the cost.” So the Congress created Medicare Advantage. As it turns out, MA provides the same level of care ( **not** better care – outcomes are similar) to Medicare patients at _120%_ of the cost. (Those numbers from memory.) Clearly, a failed experiment. But when Obama tried to zero it out in the 2010 budget, the oh-so-deficit conscious GOP refused, and demagogued him for trying to cut Medicare for our seniors. But now we’re finally going to get it fixed. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/22 "2010-03-21T17:39:15Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I think what started as a good intention by Obama and much-needed social program ended up as nothing more than a game of political capture-the-flag. It was neither. It was not needed and it was a blatant power grab by Obama and cronies, nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/23 "2010-03-21T20:52:19Z")
Twenty bucks says that even with googling **Clothahump** couldn’t accurately tell you what this bill even does. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/24 "2010-03-21T20:54:55Z")
[The GOP blame-o-rama](http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/3/21/848681/-Let-the-(Republican)-finger-pointing-begin!) is officially under way already. Get some popcorn - a big tub, with extra butter; it’s gonna take awhile but it’ll be sweet. ---
**Author:** ![regginbrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@regginbrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regginbrow)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/25 "2010-03-21T21:38:55Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > There’s answers to all of that, of course, but I’m tired, so I’ll just address this one – the whole Medicare Advantage program was a big screw-up. By phasing it out, it’ll automatically reduce the deficit. MA was created in the Bush years – a group of insurance companies came and said “we can provide the same care as Medicare to Medicare patients at 80% of the cost.” So the Congress created Medicare Advantage. As it turns out, MA provides the same level of care ( **not** better care – outcomes are similar) to Medicare patients at _120%_ of the cost. (Those numbers from memory.) Clearly, a failed experiment. But when Obama tried to zero it out in the 2010 budget, the oh-so-deficit conscious GOP refused, and demagogued him for trying to cut Medicare for our seniors. But now we’re finally going to get it fixed. > > –Cliffy There are several factual inaccuracies in this, but I am also tired and not interested in addressing them all. However, I will point you to [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28United_States%29#Part_C:_Medicare_Advantage_plans): > [@](#): > > With the passage of the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, Medicare beneficiaries were given the option to receive their Medicare benefits through private health insurance plans, instead of through the original Medicare plan (Parts A and B). These programs were known as “Medicare+Choice” or “Part C” plans. Pursuant to the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act of 2003, “Medicare+Choice” plans were made more attractive to Medicare beneficiaries by the addition of prescription drug coverage and became known as “Medicare Advantage” (MA) plans. So, Part C was created under the Clinton administration, receiving a name change under the Bush years. Also, the MA payment rates are set by the government, not by the insurance companies. CMS (Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services) can simply elect to reduce these rates to be more in line with traditional Medicare rates. This is precisely what they’ve been doing over the past several years, slowly bringing the payment rates more in line with traditional Medicare spending. One final point: MA plans cover either the same or richer benefits as compared to traditional Medicare. It’s true that the overall health of the MA population is not better than under traditional Medicare (and there are several possible explanations for this that I won’t get into), but more out of pocket costs are covered as required by law. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/26 "2010-03-21T22:30:44Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > …the [Investor’s Business Daily](http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199) did a random poll of over 1300 doctors. They found that an incredible 45% would consider retiring if this passes. Although the poll isn’t absolutely perfect… **sigh** Why on earth would rational people pay attention to IBD? Their [Hawking stupidity](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/how_stehpen_hawking_proves_tha.html) may be the worst example of their lack of integrity, but it’s certainly not the only one. They don’t rise to the level of an acceptable cite. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/27 "2010-03-21T22:43:07Z")
> [@Digital\_Stimulus](#): > > **sigh** > > Why on earth would rational people pay attention to IBD? Their [Hawking stupidity](http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/08/how_stehpen_hawking_proves_tha.html) may be the worst example of their lack of integrity, but it’s certainly not the only one. They don’t rise to the level of an acceptable cite. Sounds like the same poll [Fox spent all day attributing](http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/002612/) to the New England Journal of Medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/28 "2010-03-21T22:55:22Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It was neither. It was not needed and it was a blatant power grab by Obama and cronies, nothing more. Hmm. Really does make me wonder what percentage of conservatives and libertarians think that absolutely nothing needs to be done with the current system - that it serves as many people as it’s going to serve as best as it possibly can. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/29 "2010-03-21T23:07:24Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > I thought socialized healthcare would be a great step forward for this country. Why am I surprised that it just turned into another congressional hack job? You are correct–socialized healthcare _would_ be a great step forward for this country. However, many citizens of the US have been trained to prefer giant steps backward, even against their own self-interest. So the watered-down-for-the-slack-jawed, decidedly _non_-Socialist healthcare reform bill that will be passed tonight ends up being just a small step forward. But at least it’s forward. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/30 "2010-03-21T23:11:36Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > It’ll save as many as one million lives over the next decade – most of them poor, and disproportionately from minority or otherwise oppressed populations. Well, there’s your problem right there. That doesn’t sound so great to your average, pretzel-logic, wing-nut yoohoo. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2010, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869/31 "2010-03-21T23:48:06Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It was neither. It was not needed and it was a blatant power grab by Obama and cronies, nothing more. I know. And he’s _black_. He probably hangs out with homos and jews too. We should move out of the country. You go first, and I will meet you later. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-a-sorry-f-ing-mess-health-care/532869.md?page=1)