# What about Algeria? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763 "2011-08-31T17:04:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/1 "2011-08-31T17:04:45Z")
[The Arab Spring protests there](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010%E2%80%932011_Algerian_protests) have achieved the lifting of Algeria’s 19-year-old state of emergency and seemed to have died down since May. > [@](#): > > **Background** > > After the riots of 1988, the Algerian government had moved towards democracy, holding free elections. However, when the Islamic Salvation Front (FIS) won the first free parliamentary election in 1991, the military staged a coup d’état, voided the election results, declared a state of emergency which remained in force until 2011,[3] and arrested the FIS leadership. This led to the founding of the Armed Islamic Groups (GIA) and the ten-year Algerian Civil War, in which an estimated 150,000 people were killed. > > With the unchallenged election of Abdelaziz Bouteflika as president in 1999, civilian government was nominally restored. Violence died down as both guerrillas and soldiers were given impunity for their previous acts under the controversial Charter for Peace and National Reconciliation. Towards the end of his second term, Bouteflika amended the constitution to allow himself to run for a third term in 2009; to no one’s surprise, he won the ensuing election, with, according to the opposition and the US Embassy, a very low turnout. > > Seventy percent of Algeria’s population is less than 30 years old. Consequent high levels of youth unemployment, coupled with corruption and widespread poverty, are seen as reasons for dissatisfaction.[4] > > The leader of the Rally for Culture and Democracy, Saïd Sadi, claimed that during 2010, there were “9,700 riots and unrests” in Algeria.[5] Some protests were about issues such as education and health care, as well as rampant corruption.[6] > > Prior to the outbreak of protests, in February 2008, United States Ambassador Robert Ford in leaked diplomatic cables called Algeria “an unhappy country”, stating “There is much discussion among political circles about the constitution, the third term and the succession issue, but precious little discussion about how to address long-standing political alienation and social discontent throughout the country.”[7] He claimed there were strikes over food “by different labor groups almost weekly” and that “almost daily there are isolated demonstrations with the occasional government office in some distant town attacked.”[7] Ford stated that “voter turnout for the 2007 legislative and local elections was lower than ever before because Algeria’s young people do not see the political system as having any relevance to addressing their problem.”[7] United States diplomats also claimed that the Algerian regime is more corrupt than the international community realises and is also more fragile. The diplomatic cable also said that Bouteflika may have cancer.[8] > > \ > > **Political implications** > > While riots on this scale are unprecedented since the 1991 election, their wider political implications are not yet clear. The rioters had no collective ties to any Algerian political party, organisation, or trade union,[34] and some sources commented that they seemed to have no political slogans.[35][36] Some opposition groups emphasised the riots’ political dimension; ex-diplomat and opposition spokesperson Mohamed Larbi Zitout described them as “a revolt, and probably a revolution, of an oppressed people”,[37] while the Socialist Forces Front responded to the government’s lowering of food prices on 8 January with the slogan “The government cannot buy Algerians’ silence”.[38] Agence France Presse (AFP) has linked the January protests with events in Tunisia, stating, “In Tunisia, similar unrest sparked the overthrow of the government of Zine Al Abidine Ben Ali, whose 23 years in power ended with his flight to Saudi Arabia last Friday. Algerian commentators have said that more Tunisia-style protests could break out in Algeria.”[39] Despite their scale, the riots were dealt with by the government in much the same way as the localised riots that had already become a routine way of communicating grievances: it sought to avoid creating martyrs and made a specific concession (in this case, a return to the status quo ante of allowing un-declared food sales by Cevital) not seen as threatening the overall system.[40] So. It doesn’t seem like a situation for an uprising or a revolution or anything. I mean, [it’s an authoritarian regime,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria#Politics) but more like Mexico under the PRI than Libya under Gaddafi. AFAIK. And if the Algerians just finished a civil war in 1999, they probably have no stomach for another now. The people’s grievances, once they figure out just what they are, could be more effectively addressed by peaceful political and electoral organizing. Or am I missing something? Also, will it complicate things that [Algeria is harboring some of Gaddafi’s family?](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/08/2011829171617807937.html) ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/2 "2011-08-31T23:18:34Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Also, will it complicate things that [Algeria is harboring some of Gaddafi’s family?](http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/08/2011829171617807937.html) Not unless the new Libyan government continues to view it as an “act of agression”. If that happens, it will bolster the Algerian government. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/3 "2011-09-01T00:47:57Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Not unless the new Libyan government continues to view it as an “act of agression”. If that happens, it will bolster the Algerian government. I dont see how it could bolster the Algerian government to be at odds with a newly democratic Arab country (right next to the frontiers of Maghreb) when the legitimacy of Algeria’s government and institutions have been questioned for decades now. The Algerian government’s greatest wish right now is not to stir any shit. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/4 "2011-09-01T00:55:25Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont see how it could bolster the Algerian government to be at odds with a newly democratic Arab country (right next to the frontiers of Maghreb) when the legitimacy of Algeria’s government and institutions have been questioned for decades now. The Algerian government’s greatest wish right now is not to stir any shit. If the new Libyan government decides, “Well, hell, we’ve got an army we need to do something with,” and decides to invade Algeria to retrieve Gaddaffi’s family, that won’t unite Algeria? Far-fetched, I know. I don’t expect them to stay long anyway. To the best of my knowledge, none of those in Algeria are on the war crime list, and I would expect that they’ll show up in Italy soon enough, taking the maximum daily withdrawal from whatever bank accounts haven’t been frozen yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/5 "2011-09-01T12:50:58Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Not unless the new Libyan government continues to view it as an “act of agression”. If that happens, it will bolster the Algerian government. > [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont see how it could bolster the Algerian government to be at odds with a newly democratic Arab country (right next to the frontiers of Maghreb) when the legitimacy of Algeria’s government and institutions have been questioned for decades now. The Algerian government’s greatest wish right now is not to stir any shit. > [@Frank](#): > > If the new Libyan government decides, “Well, hell, we’ve got an army we need to do something with,” and decides to invade Algeria to retrieve Gaddaffi’s family, that won’t unite Algeria? > > Far-fetched, I know. I don’t expect them to stay long anyway. To the best of my knowledge, none of those in Algeria are on the war crime list, and I would expect that they’ll show up in Italy soon enough, taking the maximum daily withdrawal from whatever bank accounts haven’t been frozen yet. There is no chances that the new government in Lybia will start a war against Algeria. They are not so stupid. An act of agression does not mean they will invade Algeria, but it does mean that the Generals of the Pouvoir which rules Algeria will have another not-friend neighbour. They already have started with bad relations with Tunisia as they did not very much appreciate the democratic revolution. Now it is clear the rumours of Algerian support to Qadafi were very true. Maybe there will be some border clashes, but the Generals are very disliked among the Algerian youth, it is not very likely this will help them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/6 "2011-09-01T16:45:46Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > An act of agression does not mean they will invade Algeria, but it does mean that the Generals of the Pouvoir which rules Algeria . . . 😕 Algeria does not have a military government . . . does it? ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/7 "2011-09-01T17:10:44Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 Algeria does not have a military government . . . does it? Quasi-military. The military pulls the strings, the civilian government is almost a front. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/8 "2011-09-01T19:42:28Z")
The U.S. invaded Afghanistan using the fact that the then government in charge refused to extradite Osama Bin Laden, a man charged by serveral countries as an international criminal complicit in mass murder. Would anyone support boots-on-the-ground to get Ghadaffi, if the Algerians didn’t want to turn him over to the UN/Hague/whatever? ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/9 "2011-09-01T20:49:00Z")
I could picture a black ops raid to extract him, maybe, though I can’t imagine Obama ordering such a thing, even if it were a slam dunk. However, Cameron or Sarkozy might do so; they were willing to put special ops on the ground in Libya during the revolution. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/10 "2011-09-01T21:26:50Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Quasi-military. The military pulls the strings, the civilian government is almost a front. Just how (1) corrupt and (2) unpopular and (3) necessary is that arrangement? ---
**Author:** ![AndyLee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@AndyLee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyLee)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/11 "2011-09-01T22:23:52Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > The U.S. invaded Afghanistan using the fact that the then government in charge refused to extradite Osama Bin Laden, a man charged by serveral countries as an international criminal complicit in mass murder. > > Would anyone support boots-on-the-ground to get Ghadaffi, if the Algerians didn’t want to turn him over to the UN/Hague/whatever? Well that was part of it. The US charged Afghanistan was being used by AQ as a trainging ground for terrorists and the Taliban was either cooperating or not in control of it’s territory. It’s acceptable to invade under international law. This is how Israel was able to go into Lebanon to persue Hamas and the PLO as the legit government of Lebanon was not in control of its territory. The Austrians also used this against Serbia to start WWI. As Serbia was indeed letting terrorists base from their country, though Serbia gave in to all the demands of Austria, war started as Germany was itching for a fight, but that’s another thread. So there’s plenty of precident for the US going to Afghanistan. Not so with just harboring a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/12 "2011-09-02T00:18:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Just how (1) corrupt and (2) unpopular and (3) necessary is that arrangement? I dont know about the “necessity” of it (I guess you mean “if it’s not that, would it be chaos?”) but it is quite corrupt and quite unpopular. Ever since the late eighties and the rise of Islamism there (itself linked partly to the corruption), all Algerian Presidents have been pre-selected by the military before running for office. Before that the Army already had a heavy hand in Algerian politics, and were often the Kingmakers. That said there appears to be factions and clans in the Algerian military as Bouteflika (present President) running for a third term was said to have been a cause of tension among the generals. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/13 "2011-09-02T01:39:45Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > I dont know about the “necessity” of it (I guess you mean “if it’s not that, would it be chaos?”) Or Islamist rule. The fear of which in Libya has turned out to have been exaggerated, so far, but Algeria might be a different story. I do recall fears (how well-grounded I do not know), when the Islamists won the 1991 elections, that it would be a case of “One Man, One Vote, One Time,” and there would be a Sunni Iran on the Mediterranean. In any case, even though there was a military coup after those elections, the U.S. supported the government side in the ensuing civil war. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/14 "2011-09-02T12:44:47Z")
It is widely understood that the Salafistes are no longer popular in Algeria, even though the Generals are not popular either. Capitaine Zombie has it correct. The real state in Algeria is the generals and Sonatrac ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/15 "2011-09-02T14:49:39Z")
> [@AndyLee](#): > > Well that was part of it. The US charged Afghanistan was being used by AQ as a trainging ground for terrorists and the Taliban was either cooperating or not in control of it’s territory. True, at this point Algeria does not seem to be an imminent threat to it’s neighbors. I forgot about the AQ training camps [in Afghanistan]. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/16 "2011-09-02T22:33:57Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > I could picture a black ops raid to extract him, maybe, though I can’t imagine Obama ordering such a thing, even if it were a slam dunk. However, Cameron or Sarkozy might do so; they were willing to put special ops on the ground in Libya during the revolution. I can ALMOST see the Brits or the French doing it after seeing what great publicity SEAL Team 6 got. Especially the French, who are damned good but I can’t remember any recent actions. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/17 "2011-09-02T22:37:45Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I can ALMOST see the Brits or the French doing it after seeing what great publicity SEAL Team 6 got. Especially the French, who are damned good but I can’t remember any recent actions. Oh please, not a Legionnaire Vs S.A.S thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2011, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-algeria/594763/18 "2011-09-03T13:40:44Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Oh please, not a Legionnaire Vs S.A.S thread 🙂 Pffft. Army Rangers could eat 'em for brunch.