# What About The London Underground Makes It Uniquely Primitive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650 "2007-07-05T20:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/21 "2007-07-05T22:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Well, somebody had to. [/QUOTE] Sixteen posts later than the last time. Tsk! ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/22 "2007-07-05T22:38:38Z")
[QUOTE=riker1384] Those picture/s of the London tubes are frightening. With such little clearance, it doesn’t look like you could get out of the car if there was a fire or just a stoppage of the train. [/QUOTE] If there’s a stoppage in a tunnel (anything from a broken-down train to the 7/7 bombings), the door in the very front of the train is used to take people out, with doors also connecting each car. ‘De-training’ is a standard procedure with _very_ specific systems in place to take passengers out a few out a time, so as to avoid any surge forward within the train. With a full train, it can literally take hours, depending on the distance of the walk to the nearest station. I’ve no idea what systems are actually in place for a fire within a train, but as I said above, fire risks are one thing that LU certainly don’t take lightly. [QUOTE=Struan] Sixteen posts later than the last time. Tsk! [/QUOTE] If we keep it at Size 1, do you reckon we can get a game going without anyone noticing? Holborn. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/23 "2007-07-05T22:40:56Z")
(Just noticed this on the photo linked to earlier: doesn’t the [Piccadilly Line](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:London_Underground_subsurface_and_tube_trains.jpg) driver just fit the stereotype perfectly?) ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/24 "2007-07-05T22:50:30Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] (Just noticed this on the photo linked to earlier: doesn’t the [Piccadilly Line](http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:London_Underground_subsurface_and_tube_trains.jpg) driver just fit the stereotype perfectly?) [/QUOTE] Isn’t **zelie** an Underground driver? _innocent face_ Bank ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/25 "2007-07-05T22:58:34Z")
**Struan** and **GorillaMan** , what on earth are you two on about? **Struan** , you are in knip. Monument. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/26 "2007-07-05T23:13:26Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] Bear in mind that many of the earliest tubes had to go so deep because otherwise they simply would not have been permitted to dig. Only by going deep could they avoid pipes, cemeteries etc and avoid too much disruption to the surface roads. [/QUOTE] I’ve heard that a sub-issue of the cemetery problem was being very careful to avoid mass burial pits from the most recent (1660s) plague outbreak, which killed some 70,000 people in London. Monument? Hmph. Pimlico. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/27 "2007-07-05T23:17:02Z")
I’ve heard that there are sections of the London Underground that are so old, that they’re made out of old growth wood. Is this true? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/28 "2007-07-05T23:23:13Z")
I’m playing a serious wild card here - full subway exclusion. Any generel chat, fine. Any thing further, fine. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2007, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/29 "2007-07-05T23:26:09Z")
Until this thread, I didn’t know that Zelie was a tube drive (or someth ing operatot if you want, I recite my job title eleven times a year and that’s on the travel claim) ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/30 "2007-07-06T00:22:16Z")
[QUOTE=Huerta88] 1. Read a story a couple of months ago in which the director of the Underground explained how super-difficult it was to come up with a feasible air-conditioning system (this in the context of a somewhat-flaky plan to put ice blocks under the seats and blow air over them), because “you have to understand that it’s an underground tube and you need some way to exhaust the heat.” Well, that’s true of every air-conditioning/refrigeration system, or more specifically, of every subway air conditioner, yet other subway systems seem to manage and find ways to vent/exhaust the hot air. (They were also talking about diverting water from the Thames into underground chambers to serve as a heat sink). [/QUOTE] As someone who’s currently regularly traveling on both the Tube (pretty much daily) and the Paris Metro (less frequently, but still regularly), it’s not obvious to me that the Tube is hotter. Granted, Paris has been generally warmer as a city overall, but I’ve sweltered far more on the Metro so far this summer than on the Tube. And the extremes on the Metro have been far worse and not restricted to rush hour. > [@](#): > > 1. Read another story in which they said that “of course” they would never be able to run the Tube 24 hours a day “because it’s a single track system.” I’m not sure exactly what this means or how it fundamentally differs from, say, New York. No cite, but I seem to recall Ken[sup]\*[/sup] having talked about running the Tube through the night. Not immediately, but within the next decade. - - Livingston. The mayor. ---
**Author:** ![zelie\_zelerton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/59ef9b/32.png) [@zelie\_zelerton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zelie_zelerton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/31 "2007-07-06T00:41:29Z")
The basic procedures for fire are ‘Get to the next station!’ There’s pretty much nothing on a tube train which will catch fire quicker than the couple of minutes it will take us to get to the next station and detrain. At which point the entire line shuts down (and often the station) under standing orders from the London Fire Brigade. It’s slightly more complicated than that but that’s more or less it - ideally we don’t want to be stopping in a tunnel. ---
**Author:** ![zelie\_zelerton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/59ef9b/32.png) [@zelie\_zelerton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zelie_zelerton)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/32 "2007-07-06T00:51:44Z")
Damn, I hit ‘post’ there by accident! With regard to the tunnel heat - actually it’s not that hot down there. The temperature stays reasonably stable so you need several very hot days and nights for the tunnel temp to get uncomfortable. Really, it’s the stations and the passenger saloons which are the hot places. The stations because of all the equipment and the odd flows of air which can keep heat in and the trains because of the thousand-odd passengers. But I maintain that if the trains were given a decent source of ventilation with small air-cooling units that would go a long way to making it a more comfortable ride. Dumping the heat in the tunnels wouldn’t make too much difference. Admittedly there is not much space around the trains but they are generally moving and unless there is a serious problem won’t be stationary for more than 2 minutes (I know it seems like longer!). Of course, the stations do need to be cooled as do the tunnels during hot spells but that’s a much grander scheme. The electricity supply is actually very rigourous and I’ve known a fault with it only once and that was on the National Rail section of track. Generally when the power goes off it’s because somebody has intentionally done so for safety reasons. PS \*\*Gorillaman \*\* what do you mean “around” Bank? The Central Line goes directly through the vaults of the Bank of England. Well it does when they are not offroading with the trains. 😃 Angel ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/33 "2007-07-06T01:14:20Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] The Central Line goes directly through the vaults of the Bank of England. [/QUOTE] Seriously? Umm, if I bring my own pickaxe, will you stop the train? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/34 "2007-07-06T01:26:05Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] London was the first, unless you count the one-block-long pneumatic subway built in New York (but killed by Tweed and his cronies, who had an interest in maintaining the El). London had the first operating subway, followed shortly thereafter y Boston and Patris. New York didn’t get theirs until later. [/QUOTE] Budapest’s Metro predates both Boston’s and Paris’s. It was the second subway system in the world, after London’s. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/35 "2007-07-06T06:16:49Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] PS \*\*Gorillaman \*\* what do you mean “around” Bank? The Central Line goes directly through the vaults of the Bank of England. Well it does when they are not offroading with the trains. 😃 [/QUOTE] I meant ‘in the vicinity of Bank’. The way the tunnels have switchbacks for no good reason. Wish I could go back and edit my un-previewed posts South Kensington ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/36 "2007-07-06T06:32:50Z")
QUOTE=GorillaMan]I meant ‘in the vicinity of Bank’. The way the tunnels have switchbacks for no good reason. Wish I could go back and edit my un-previewed posts South Kensington [/QUOTE] Kings Cross, with variables ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/37 "2007-07-06T07:47:42Z")
> [@Billdo](#): > > Note that the New York subway is not air conditioned …although the trains themselves are. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/38 "2007-07-06T10:04:32Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] It can be very uncomfortable if the tunnels are hot and it’s a good idea to try to cool them but personally I’m not sure why so little effort is made to cool the trains as opposed to the tunnels [/QUOTE] For the Yetis of course, those poor furry buggers ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/39 "2007-07-06T11:55:42Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] The Central Line goes directly through the vaults of the Bank of England. [/QUOTE] **zelie** , do you know if it’s true that this happened because the vaults were not marked on any maps (for security reasons), and the tunnellers just broke in by accident? I’ve heard this as an explanation, but it always sounded like an UL. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/40 "2007-07-06T13:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=Billdo] The key to these is that, for the most part, the London tube is, in fact, a tube (or rather, many tubes). [/QUOTE] You mean like the Internet? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650.md?page=3)