# What About The London Underground Makes It Uniquely Primitive? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2007, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650 "2007-07-05T20:55:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/61 "2007-07-07T08:23:02Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] Ah I get you. It sounds similar to National Rail signalling although there’s never a red involved unless you want the train to stop (shunting moves aside). Depending on how many colour lights you have (up to four I think) you have signals detailing how many sections ahead are clear. Many tube drivers have to learn both Underground signalling and National Rail signalling because lines extend outside of LUL. The signalling for NR and the signalling your trains have makes sense because of the speed of the trains - our little chuffers will perhaps do 70mph maximum! And the ones I am on will rarely do more than 50. I forgot to reply to \*\*Dangermom \*\* earlier. There’s a great book called London’s Disused Underground Stations by J E Connor that has a lot of information about the ghost stations. There are some pretty good websites on the subject too. Sorry but you can’t breach Emslie’s Subtractional Allegory with a Sideways Scnickelgrube on a Saturday like that so I’ll have to set you back to Euston Square [/QUOTE] One of the better books on the subject was written by NF Stovold, but unfortunately like his earlier work “Mornington Crescent: Rules and Origins” this is very rare and many think that no copies still exist. 😃 Dollis Hill ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/62 "2007-07-07T09:01:55Z")
QUOTE=Pjen]One of the better books on the subject was written by NF Stovold, but unfortunately like his earlier work “Mornington Crescent: Rules and Origins” this is very rare and many think that no copies still exist. 😃 Dollis Hill [/QUOTE] Dollis Hill? Not allowed when raining old chap. I say again, Kings Cross using the Pitsdorf double conjecture ---
**Author:** ![zelie\_zelerton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/59ef9b/32.png) [@zelie\_zelerton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zelie_zelerton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/63 "2007-07-07T09:29:57Z")
[QUOTE=Pjen] One of the better books on the subject was written by NF Stovold, but unfortunately like his earlier work “Mornington Crescent: Rules and Origins” this is very rare and many think that no copies still exist. 😃 Dollis Hill [/QUOTE] Utter bunkum. It’s reissued every year to staff as the [evidence](http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1661/p1000643cp3.jpg) clearly shows. As you can see it’s a [hefty tome](http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7198/p1000644uz6.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![zelie\_zelerton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/59ef9b/32.png) [@zelie\_zelerton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zelie_zelerton)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/64 "2007-07-07T09:40:46Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] QUOTE=Pjen]One of the better books on the subject was written by NF Stovold, but unfortunately like his earlier work “Mornington Crescent: Rules and Origins” this is very rare and many think that no copies still exist. 😃 Dollis Hill [/QUOTE] Dollis Hill? Not allowed when raining old chap. I say again, Kings Cross using the Pitsdorf double conjecture [/QUOTE] It’s not raining in London. And even if it was, it wouldn’t be underground. Move permitted! ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/65 "2007-07-07T09:54:24Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] Dollis Hill? Not allowed when raining old chap. I say again, Kings Cross using the Pitsdorf double conjectureground. Move permitted! [/QUOTE] Thanks for showing me a copy of Stovald- I sometimes doubted its existence. Now that that move has been accepted I would point out that it sends this game into the Dollis Hill Loop: > **[Dollis Hill tube station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollis_Hill_tube_station)** > > Dollis Hill is a London Underground station at Dollis Hill, near to Willesden and Gladstone Park in the London Borough of Brent. It is on the Jubilee line between Neasden and Willesden Green stations, and is in London fare zone 3. Metropolitan line trains pass through the station without stopping. The station opened on 1 October 1909 as part of the Metropolitan Railway. The current art deco style platform buildings were built in 1938, and were designed by architect Stanley Heaps Dollis Hill is frequently mentioned in the humorous game Mornington Crescent. Traditionally, the playing of Dollis Hill starts a “Dollis Hill Loop”, meaning that every subsequent move made by any player must be to Dollis Hill. Various ingenious ways to break the loop have been invented by Mornington Crescent players in the past. If you are all so clever, let’s see how long it takes you to unloop the loop. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/66 "2007-07-07T12:43:36Z")
[QUOTE=zelie zelerton] As you can see it’s a [hefty tome](http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/7198/p1000644uz6.jpg) [/QUOTE] And that’s just the index volume! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/67 "2007-07-07T13:22:27Z")
(I was having internet problems the other day and was nable to post this.) Transport for London had a contest for ways to air condiiton the deep stations. The Economist reported on it a couple of months ago. Since these tubes have to have ground water pumped out constantly, the idea was to use this water to carry out the waste heat. Pretty darn clever. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/68 "2007-07-09T10:30:58Z")
If you’re interested in how subway signaling works in New York, here’s a [ridiculously detailed explanation](http://www.nycsubway.org/tech/signals/). In fact, if you’re obsessively interested in things subway (otherwise known as a “foamer” for the tendency to foam at the mouth when discussing the trains), [nycsubway.org](http://www.nycsubway.org/) is a good place to explore. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2007, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650/69 "2007-07-09T11:27:21Z")
Another good website is [Urban Railnet](http://www.urbanrail.net/index.html) . This describes most metro systems in the world, including a brief history of each network. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-london-underground-makes-it-uniquely-primitive/410650.md?page=3)