# What about the people in other occupations who die at work? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 31, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387 "2009-03-31T02:13:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/41 "2009-04-01T20:54:34Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > It is true, and what you are saying, with all due respect, is false. > When heroism is displayed, it is often publicly recognized and honored. The obvious (to most people) difference when it comes to police and firefighters (and soliders and Coast Guard and other rescue workers) is that they are not randomly found in life-threatening situations, but are expected to _place themselves_ in harm’s way in order to protect others. > > If the job of loggers was to protect other people from trees, they’d receive more recognition for their bravery. But that isn’t their job, so they don’t. Some years ago I was watching one of those “reality 911” shows that were popular at the time. Anyway, some boys, three I think, were playing in a river and got swept down into an eddy and were drowning because they couldn’t get out. Some old dude jumped in and swan to then and pushed each one out of the eddy so they were able to get to shore. Problem was, the man got so exhausted that he couldn’t swim out himself and he drowned. He was hailed as a hero, but his family lost their father, husband, and provider. Tough luck, you see. Not so for professionals. That’s “the difference” I see. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/42 "2009-04-01T21:05:30Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Tough luck, you see. > Not so for professionals. That’s “the difference” I see. What is your solution to this? Perhaps you could found a “Heroes Charity” that would support the surviving families of good samaritans, if one doesn’t exist already. I think that would be a wonderful use of your time and concern for these individuals and their families. In the meantime, police and firefighters will continue to honor their own lost in the line of duty, to include survivor benefits and support networks where possible/available. And many-- most-- of the public will honor them when they lose their lives in the line of duty, and respect the grief of their families. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/43 "2009-04-01T21:24:52Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > What is your solution to this? Perhaps you could found a “Heroes Charity” that would support the surviving families of good samaritans, if one doesn’t exist already. I think that would be a wonderful use of your time and concern for these individuals and their families. > > In the meantime, police and firefighters will continue to honor their own lost in the line of duty, to include survivor benefits and support networks where possible/available. And many-- most-- of the public will honor them when they lose their lives in the line of duty, and respect the grief of their families. I think a good use of your time would be to go back and read the OP. No where did I suggest that the overwhelming support of the professional’s families was a bad thing. Quite the opposite. I do wonder at the lack of support for the families of workers in other jobs, but I’ve come to think that maybe it’s at least partially due to the great number of cops and firefighters, and the relative scarcity of death in their ranks. And tv. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2009, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/44 "2009-04-06T18:57:28Z")
Just wanted to share this, as it pertains to the discussion: [The Carnegie Hero Foundation](http://www.carnegiehero.org/). > [@](#): > > The two-fold mission of the Carnegie Hero Fund Commission: To recognize persons who perform acts of heroism in civilian life in the United States and Canada, and to provide financial assistance for those disabled and the dependants of those killed helping others… > > The candidate for an award must be a civilian who voluntarily risks his or her life to an extraordinary degree while saving or attempting to save the life of another person. The rescuer must have no full measure of responsibility for the safety of the victim. There must be conclusive evidence to support the act’s occurrence, and the act must be called to the attention of the Commission within two years… > > Those who are selected for recognition by the Commission are awarded the CARNEGIE MEDAL, and they, or their survivors, become eligible for financial considerations, including one-time grants, scholarship aid, death benefits, and continuing assistance. . . [Recent awardees are here](http://www.carnegiehero.org/awardees_recent.php#11). ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/45 "2009-04-07T05:37:37Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > To answer the second part of your question: [SGLI.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Servicemembers'_Group_Life_Insurance) The cops and firemen also have life insurance. But when a cop or fireman dies a public fund is set up to help the family outside of insurance. But we do not help the familys of servicemen we just let the insurance cover it. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/46 "2009-04-07T13:00:18Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Wasn’t there a Supreme Court ruling that stated that it is not the duty of the police to do just that? Second Ammendment proponents (gun owners) often bring it up in their arguements supporting personal gun ownership. My gun toting friend found [this](http://gunowners.org/sk0503.htm) for me. I’ve only scanned it, but it does reflect what I meant in my quoted statement. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/47 "2009-04-07T14:38:54Z")
> [@VunderBob](#): > > The number 1 killer of firefighters is a heart attack, either directly on duty, or within 48 hours of a major event. #2 is a duty related traffic accident. > > An actual line of duty death because of burns/building collapse/explosion/flashover/whatever someone would normally associate with firefighting gets pretty far down the list in probability. > > I’ve had my share of traffic scares, FWIW. Do you have a cite for that? I know it’s your line of work and all- just want to see the numbers. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/48 "2009-04-07T14:45:22Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you have a cite for that? I know it’s your line of work and all- just want to see the numbers. [http://firechief.com/health\_safety/firefighting\_heart\_attacks\_leading\_2/](http://firechief.com/health_safety/firefighting_heart_attacks_leading_2/) ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/49 "2009-04-07T14:46:57Z")
Fishermen or loggers dying may be tragic to their families, but there’s nothing heroic about it. They aren’t putting themselves in danger to help anybody. They’re just raping the environment out of personal greed. Sometimes the environment wins. That’s Darwinism in action. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/50 "2009-04-07T15:06:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fishermen or loggers dying may be tragic to their families, but there’s nothing heroic about it. They aren’t putting themselves in danger to help anybody. They’re just raping the environment out of personal greed. Sometimes the environment wins. That’s Darwinism in action. Fishers and loggers have no choice in doing their jobs. If they don’t fish and log, they’re not fishers and loggers. Police and firefighters have no choice in doing their jobs. If they don’t police and firefight, they’re not police and firefighters. It’s essentially the same thing, people doing their jobs. It’s just that fishers and loggers pay a much higher price. If a fisher or a logger encounter a situation where they need to put their own well being in peril to save anothers, they will. Effect on the environment is another matter. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/51 "2009-04-07T15:28:22Z")
[http://www.uaw.org/hs/00/](http://www.uaw.org/hs/00/) Factory and auto workers die on the job. Rough, dirty and sometimes dangerous work. They need to work cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/52 "2009-04-07T15:36:55Z")
Fishing and logging are entirely self-serving occupations. Law enforcement, firefigters and the military are occupations which serve to protect others. Both kinds of occupations are choices (I don’t get what you mean by saying loggers and fisherment don’t choose to log and fish. Of course they do). It seems pretty obvious that somebody who dies in battle, or from a fire fight with bank robbers or from trying to get people out of a tower that just got bombed by a hijacked airliner desreves more respect than some redneck who fell off a boat trying to poach a few crabs. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/53 "2009-04-07T15:44:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > (I don’t get what you mean by saying loggers and fisherment don’t choose to log and fish. Of course they do). I didn’t say that. Of course you don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/54 "2009-04-07T17:13:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > desreves more respect than some redneck who fell off a boat trying to poach a few crabs. What’s with the hate on loggers and fisherman? Isn’t it noble to work in the only line of business you know to make a better life for your family? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/55 "2009-04-07T17:44:10Z")
Not if you’re raping the environment. And no, there’s nothing especially virtuous about working for material gain. There’s certainly nothing heroic about dying for it. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/56 "2009-04-07T18:09:03Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not if you’re raping the environment. And no, there’s nothing especially virtuous about working for material gain. There’s certainly nothing heroic about dying for it. I work for a huge international oil company, #3 I think. Will You Join Us? 😉 And you, what do you do? Of course you don’t have to answer. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/57 "2009-04-08T01:56:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not if you’re raping the environment. Except the vast majority perform their jobs without managing to do so. I’ve done logging and I sleep just fine at night. But it’s a hijack from the point of this thread so I’ll move on. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/58 "2009-04-08T02:38:43Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I work for a huge international oil company, #3 I think. > Will You Join Us? 😉 No thanks > [@](#): > > And you, what do you do? > Of course you don’t have to answer. I do in-home services for disabled people. That ok with you? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/59 "2009-04-08T03:02:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No thanks Okay. Just offering an opportunity to help. > [@](#): > > I do in-home services for disabled people. That ok with you? Of course it’s okay with me. I’m sure they appreciate it. I’m not the one running down people’s occupations, eh! I’m the socialist who sees value in most all jobs. The seafood bit, I guess one could do without. And I don’t know for sure if the by-products are neccessary. But I can’t imagine getting along without any wood or petroleum products at all. Oh yeah. Not exactky lumberjacks, but those nasty farm workers rape the hell out of California’s central alley getting us our yummy tomatoes. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387/60 "2009-04-08T12:46:41Z")
California’s Central Valley was once a prairie. You’re welcome. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-the-people-in-other-occupations-who-die-at-work/491387.md?page=4)