# What, about WWII, are the Japanese denying? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 20, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506 "2015-03-20T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/21 "2015-03-20T22:15:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > 🙂 > > Not that I trust Wikipedia for shit, but[here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii#Overthrow_of_1893.E2.80.94the_Republic_of_Hawaii_.281894.E2.80.931898.29)are[links](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Dole#Hawaiian_Pineapple_Company) that agree with my idea of how things happened. > > They came off better than the Indians, at any rate. 🙂 _After growing his savings to $16,240, Dole moved to Honolulu Hawaii at the age of 22, arriving on November 16, **1899** , (then governed by his cousin Sanford B. Dole, after the **1893** overthrow of Queen Liliʻuokalani).[3] He purchased a 64-acre (260,000 m2) government homestead in the central plains of the island of Oahu at 21°30′30″N 158°0′22″W.[1] After experimenting with a number of crops, he settled on planting pineapple._ Yes, so old Sanford, being such a great cousin, “overthrew” the Queen to make Hawaii safe for pineapple _six years before_ James even thought of it. The article on Sanford fails to mention his fantastic psychic abilities. And note how racist the wiki article is : \*On January 14, 1893, a group of mostly **Euro-American** business leaders and residents formed the Committee of Safety to stage a coup d’état against the Kingdom and seek annexation by the United States. \* Note the article on Sanford, that white carpetbagger non-native; "_Dole was born April 23, 1844 in Honolulu "_ Yes, there were a lot of white and half-white members of the Committee of Safety, but most had been born on the islands. (Note that the Queen herself married a white sea-captain. ) And they were justly worried. The Queen wanted to take away their rights- that under her rule only natives would have any rights. The Queen would have taken away the rights even for Hawaiian born citizens - if they were white. About as racist as you get. She was a loon that even her own Ministers and people didnt support- at the time. Later, she was venerated almost as a saint. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/22 "2015-03-20T22:16:05Z")
A memory I have of some poster here on the SDMB where they summed up the typical Japanese high school coverage of WWII. It had the feel of the following. 1. Something something (and not much of it at that). 2. America nuked us twice!!! Why??!!! (those bastards). Have no idea of how true that is, but if it is, well Japan sure sounds like more like its trying to forget it than apologize or understand it. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/23 "2015-03-21T01:08:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, there were a lot of white and half-white members of the Committee of Safety, but most had been born on the islands. (Note that the Queen herself married a white sea-captain. ) And they were justly worried. The Queen wanted to take away their rights- that under her rule only natives would have any rights. The Queen would have taken away the rights even for Hawaiian born citizens - if they were white. About as racist as you get. She was a loon that even her own Ministers and people didnt support- at the time. Later, she was venerated almost as a saint. Dude, I am interested in your newsletter and would like to believe. Gimme a cite. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/24 "2015-03-21T01:15:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think Japan has the worst of both worlds right now; on the one hand not fully grasping its WWII history head-on (there are still visits to Yasukuni and also textbooks that are questionable in their coverage of WWII)…on the other hand having too much pacifism, SDFs instead of a normal military, and prohibitions on normal military action. > > The right thing to do would be to tackle all atrocity/history issues head-on, while also boosting defense spending, abolishing Article 9 and having normal national defense. Well, you hit the nail on the head. Having lived in Japan for five years and having talked to several veterans – actually, kamikazes who didn’t get to go, to be precise – I realized that it’s less a matter of the Japanese people denying things or not apologizing for things; they just have no idea what they’re supposed to be denying or apologizing for because they simply aren’t aware of anything because _these things are not taught in any school anywhere for any reason._ Simply put, for most Japanese below the age of 60, the Second World War is just five years of blank nothingness in which the end came when a terrible bomb landed on their cities. That’s pretty much _it._ ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/25 "2015-03-21T01:58:19Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I think Japan has the worst of both worlds right now; on the one hand not fully grasping its WWII history head-on (there are still visits to Yasukuni and also textbooks that are questionable in their coverage of WWII)…on the other hand having too much pacifism, SDFs instead of a normal military, and prohibitions on normal military action. To be fair, Yasukuni is a shrine dedicated to those who died in service of Japan. the fact that some enshrined there are considered war criminals has turned this whole thing into international troll fodder. China and South Korea want the Japanese PM to condemn past actions and refuse to visit Yasukuni; the Japanese media plays it up as “will he or won’t he,” then the PM inevitably visits the shrine and the bickering commences. I remember my first trip to Japan, watching this coverage on NHK. Junichiro Koizumi (dat hair) was PM at the time, and the breaking news was that he visited Yasukuni and they were waiting for the response. > [@Kamakiri](#): > > Well, you hit the nail on the head. Having lived in Japan for five years and having talked to several veterans – actually, kamikazes who didn’t get to go, to be precise – I realized that it’s less a matter of the Japanese people denying things or not apologizing for things; they just have no idea what they’re supposed to be denying or apologizing for because they simply aren’t aware of anything because _these things are not taught in any school anywhere for any reason._ > > Simply put, for most Japanese below the age of 60, the Second World War is just five years of blank nothingness in which the end came when a terrible bomb landed on their cities. > > That’s pretty much _it._ yep. at least here we’re able to moot the concept that dropping nuclear weapons on Japan wasn’t necessary at all, just Truman wagging our collective dick in Stalin’s general direction. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/26 "2015-03-21T02:15:46Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > They certainly downplay the use of [“comfort women”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_women#Apologies_and_compensation) and the activities of [Unit 731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731#Official_government_response_in_Japan). > > Dave Barry’s book Dave Barry Does Japan talks about his going to a Hiroshima memorial, and he said the bombing was treated almost like a natural disaster. There was no talk about why the US might have bombed Hiroshima. Dave Barry’s book is very outdated - It was printed in 1992, making it over twenty years old. It’s also mainly a comedy book that contains much that’s inaccurate. My daughter got back from Japan in late August, having lived there a year as a college student. She visited Hiroshima twice - once in the Spring of 2014 and then again for the anniversary ceremonies in August. She did visit Peace Memorial Museum, and her reaction was that the reason for the bombings and Japan’s role in the war was very clearly and bluntly explained in context with the exhibits and not glossed over at all…she was actually a bit surprised by how much it was not glossed over, actually. Many of the survivors (hibakusha) are also very blunt, when they give talks and appearances, about Japan’s role in the war and what led up to the city being bombed. She also found it interesting how the Mayor of Hiroshima, in his talk at the memorial ceremonies, tore into the Prime Minister (Abe) over some of his aggressive stances that he felt could lead to Japan being involved in more wars. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/27 "2015-03-21T02:24:38Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > To be fair, Yasukuni is a shrine dedicated to those who died in service of Japan. the fact that some enshrined there are considered war criminals has turned this whole thing into international troll fodder. They ate POWs, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/28 "2015-03-21T02:43:07Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > A memory I have of some poster here on the SDMB where they summed up the typical Japanese high school coverage of WWII. It had the feel of the following. > > 1. Something something (and not much of it at that). > 2. America nuked us twice!!! Why??!!! (those bastards). > > Have no idea of how true that is, but if it is, well Japan sure sounds like more like its trying to forget it than apologize or understand it. I used to live in Japan – about an hour outside Hiroshima, in fact. While I didn’t go around deliberately bringing up WWII, when the subject arose it was my impression that the average Japanese person is aware that the US dropped the bomb on them in order to win the war and that they’re not particularly upset about this today. I’m not sure what else America could fairly expect from Japan on this point. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/29 "2015-03-21T02:52:26Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Dude, I am interested in your newsletter and would like to believe. > Gimme a cite. > 🙂 Well, I quoted wiki :[Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overthrow_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hawaii) \*Many Hawaii businesses and citizens felt pressure from the loss of revenue; in response Liliʻuokalani proposed a lottery system to raise money for her government. Also proposed was a controversial opium licensing bill.[37] Her ministers, and closest friends, were all opposed to this plan; they unsuccessfully tried to dissuade her from pursuing these initiatives, both of which came to be used against her in the brewing constitutional crisis.[6] Liliʻuokalani’s chief desire was to restore power to the monarch by abrogating the 1887 Bayonet Constitution and promulgating a new one, an idea that seems to have been broadly supported by the Hawaiian population.[38] The 1893 Constitution would have reduced suffrage by reducing some property requirements, and eliminated the voting privileges extended to European and American residents. It would have disfranchised many resident European and American businessmen who were not citizens of Hawaii. The Queen toured several of the islands on horseback, talking to the people about her ideas and receiving overwhelming support, including a lengthy petition in support of a new constitution. However, when the Queen informed her cabinet of her plans, they withheld their support due to an understanding of what her opponent’s likely response to these plans would be.[39]\* Details about Queen Liliʻuokalani’s plans are sketchy, but she did try to abrogate the Constitution that gave voting & property rights to all, regardless of skin color (there was a pretty strict residency requirement, which I think is fair) and also limited the powers of the Monarch. She certainly wanted to bring back a nigh absolute Monarchy and get rid of the vote for whites. Exactly what else she wanted is unclear and debated. L\*orrin A. Thurston (July 31, 1858 – May 11, 1931) was a lawyer, politician, and businessman born and raised in the Kingdom of Hawaiʻi. The grandson of two of the first Christian missionaries to Hawaiʻi, Thurston played a prominent role in the overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom that replaced Queen Liliʻuokalani with the Republic of Hawaii, dominated by American interests. \* > **[Lorrin A. Thurston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorrin_A._Thurston)** > > Lorrin Andrews Thurston (July 31, 1858 – May 11, 1931) was a Hawaiian-American lawyer, politician, and businessman. Thurston played a prominent role in the revolution that caused the Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom that replaced Queen Liliʻuokalani with the Republic of Hawaii, guided by American ideas. He published the Pacific Commercial Advertiser (a forerunner of the present-day Honolulu Star-Advertiser), and owned other enterprises. From 1906 to 1916, he and his network lobbied with nation... So he was born there and his parents were born there! I’d say that would make him a “native”, no? and about Sanford Dole:"Dole was born April 23, 1844 in Honolulu " ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/30 "2015-03-21T03:12:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > So he was born there and his parents were born there! I’d say that would make him a “native”, no? > and about Sanford Dole:"Dole was born April 23, 1844 in Honolulu " I do not agree. They were rich Americans trying to make money. If the natives want to fuck around with folks, well, they owned the joint before American Businessmen arrived. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/31 "2015-03-21T08:22:03Z")
until someone defines “the Japanese.” Are you talking about a few ultra nationalist nuts? Some of the conservative politicians who pander to them? The average Tanaka-san on the street? Liberal academics in ivory towers? It’s meaningless to debate what “the Japanese” deny about WWII because there isn’t a neat little box we can through all 100 million souls into. There are also so many differences between the situation in Germany and Japan, that despite the temptation, they cannot be compared so easily. It was an enormously complex situation and not something which can be readily defined. The questions of what the Japanese did, who was responsible, how much responsibility the average person has, etc., need to be clarified, but Japan surrendered to Allied forces 70 years ago this year. That’s a long time, and I fear that in the US-tolerated, and probably encouraged, whitewash in the immediate years post surrender, has effectively slammed the doors to understanding shut. That’s unfortunate. Here’s a post I wrote in a thread about why the Japanese were so cruel in WWII. > [@Why were the Japanese so cruel in World War II?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-were-the-japanese-so-cruel-in-world-war-ii/565034/290): > > Oh boy. Don’t look at a discussion for a couple of days, and see what happens. > > For the long-forgotten OP, the question is why the Japanese were so cruel in WWII. > > The quick answer is the Japanese militarism which became increasingly strong through the 1920s and then into the 30s and then the war. _Bushido_ has a little to do with it as Christianity does to the Westboro folks, it was hijacked to service a more evil purpose. This is evidenced by the normal treatment of POWs by the Japanese in the Russo-Japanese war. It was only in the 30s that the army became so cruel. With universal conscription, the army drilled compliance into a populous which wasn’t that long out of a feudal system. > > The structure of the Meiji Constitution created a structure which allowed militarism to develop unchecked by the civilian government. The Ministers of War (Army) and Navy had to be active duty officers, and the prime minister had to resign if he could not fill a cabinet, so he was at the mercy of the armed forces. The general staffs of the army and navy were independent of the respective ministries, and like the ministers, they reported not to the Prime Minister but directly to the emperor. > > The ultra-nationalists attempted a number of coups, assassinated many government leaders and even threatened admirals who opposed them, ultimately unilaterally starting the war in China which lead to war with the Allies. > > There is no doubt that the acts of the Japanese during the war were despicable. One searches in vain for words to adequately describe the unspeakable horrors. > > The question is then why the Japanese didn’t develop the same sense of collective guilt which the Germans did after WWII. Many people point to this and try to make comparison, but there were large, material differences between the situations concerning the two Axis nations. > > More German people were more involved in the rise of Nazism, which was a political party that received a plurality of votes, did enjoy the support of sizable percentage of the people. Hitler’s ascension to power in the early 30s was famously cheered on by large crowds of tens or hundreds of thousands. More Germans were active participants in the anti-Jewish laws and agreed with the Nazis that the Jews were a major problem which needed to be solved (although fewer knew about the death camps). The brutality occurred not in some far distant land but its own neighborhoods and its victim included its own citizens. > > In contrast, in Japan the militarism was centered on the army and members of the non-elected ruling oligarchy. The violence occurred overseas, mostly out of view and knowledge of the average civilian. No one was rounded in the streets of Tokyo and political parties were suppressed rather than serve as an instrument of gathering public support. Political leaders did not spew hate-filled diatribes to cheering crowds. > > There were major differences between how the wars ended and the timing and most importantly of how the Allies approached the issue. The land war on the European continent exposed the worst of Germany’s secrets to the world. The camps still stood and evidence of the massacres were there for all to see. Not only were they visible, but the Allies had enacted a wide-spread campaign of to rid Germany of Nazis and their sympathizers, forcibly bringing the atrocities to everyone’s attention. It was Allied pressure which was the impetus for the laws which ultimately banned the denial of the Holocaust. > > In Japan, however, the war took several months longer, and the Japanese army was not overrun in areas where they had committed many of their atrocities. Even by then, there were concerns over the Soviet Union, and at least partly due to this the US Army participated in the cover-up of Unit 731. China’s attention was immediately distracted by its civil war. A critical part of the puzzle is that the US cooped the emperor in changing the nation, and was complicit in the cover-up of his responsibility. With the vast majority of the problem stemming from the then disbanded military, GHQ did not conduct an extensive propaganda campaign to impose a collective guilt on the Japanese population > > Japanese intellectuals were highly critical of the militarism and successfully fought displays of the flag and the national anthem at school graduations for years, to take one example. > > Timing is everything. With the successful cover-up of the worst of the civilian atrocities, including the Rape of Nanking, the Comfort Women and Unit 731 until decades later, when the news did come out, the shock value was considerably less. Less people could directly relate. > > This is not an apology for the actions of the Japanese. Note my repeated use of words such as “atrocities.” Nor it is an excuse for the lack of earlier, clearer apologies and an honest approach to history. > > It is, however, my opinion on why comparisons to Germany are not as black and white as some would think or claim. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/32 "2015-03-21T16:40:16Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > until someone defines “the Japanese.” > > Are you talking about a few ultra nationalist nuts? Some of the conservative politicians who pander to them? The average Tanaka-san on the street? Liberal academics in ivory towers? > > It’s meaningless to debate what “the Japanese” deny about WWII because there isn’t a neat little box we can through all 100 million souls into. You make some good points as to why the Japanese people dont quite have the sense of collective guilt as the Germans. But to me, that would have me say “Yeah, bad things happened, now let’s get on with life”. However, as you know, some have argued that the USA forced Japan to attack. There’s a difference between the two attitudes. ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/33 "2015-03-21T19:02:23Z")
> [@GythaOgg](#): > > Dave Barry’s book is very outdated - It was printed in 1992, making it over twenty years old. It’s also mainly a comedy book that contains much that’s inaccurate. > > My daughter got back from Japan in late August, having lived there a year as a college student. She visited Hiroshima twice - once in the Spring of 2014 and then again for the anniversary ceremonies in August. She did visit Peace Memorial Museum, and her reaction was that the reason for the bombings and Japan’s role in the war was very clearly and bluntly explained in context with the exhibits and not glossed over at all…she was actually a bit surprised by how much it was not glossed over, actually. > > Many of the survivors (hibakusha) are also very blunt, when they give talks and appearances, about Japan’s role in the war and what led up to the city being bombed. She also found it interesting how the Mayor of Hiroshima, in his talk at the memorial ceremonies, tore into the Prime Minister (Abe) over some of his aggressive stances that he felt could lead to Japan being involved in more wars. The mayors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (their forebears, actually) have [paid dearly](http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/19/world/mayor-who-faulted-hirohito-is-shot.html) for their unconventional (read: non right-wing) views on various aspects of WWII. In fact, the right wing factions in Japan have been active, vocal and extremely intimidating for many, many decades, including the years I was there (88-93). They are, to put it mildly, Japanese Neo-Nazis, and of course, [they shout down anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest](http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/hashimoto-zaitokukai-chairman-get-into-shouting-match). They take a most vociferous form as the [Zaiutokukai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaitokukai), and anyone who has any mental image of the Japanese as a meek, slightly naive culture would do well to remind themselves of the true fanaticism of a large proportion of the populace during WWII. I’m not here to argue with the likes of “RickJay.” While stating a remarkable list of opinions about Japanese beliefs (please tell me what your background is that enables you to take this position); suffice to say that the Japanese as a modern race in general have little or no interest in what went on in WWII. You’d be a fool to bring it up in any conversation and the subject would be changed so fast you could swear it had never existed. My own then-wife dismissed my views about the Japanese treatment of POWs until I showed her the irrefutable evidence of that newspaper article, published during the war, on the “[Contest to Cut Down 100](https://sites.google.com/site/renemalenfant/hyakuningirikyousou).” She was uncharacteristically quiet for about a week after that. The only people who would bother to talk about it these days are people who have a major agenda – usually like that of the above – and they are an extremely unpleasant bunch of assholes. In general, the watchword in Japan today is See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Think No Evil. All very well to be saying “Never again” about the atomic bombs, but perhaps we should add a rewind button to that statement. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/34 "2015-03-21T21:02:23Z")
> [@Kamakiri](#): > > In fact, the right wing factions in Japan have been active, vocal and extremely intimidating for many, many decades, including the years I was there (88-93). Thank you for you well written personal insights. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/35 "2015-03-21T21:02:26Z")
Your experiences in Japan were very, very different from mine. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/36 "2015-03-21T23:41:31Z")
> [@Kamakiri](#): > > The mayors of Nagasaki and Hiroshima (their forebears, actually) have [paid dearly](http://www.nytimes.com/1990/01/19/world/mayor-who-faulted-hirohito-is-shot.html) for their unconventional (read: non right-wing) views on various aspects of WWII. > > In fact, the right wing factions in Japan have been active, vocal and extremely intimidating for many, many decades, including the years I was there (88-93). They are, to put it mildly, Japanese Neo-Nazis, and of course, [they shout down anyone who disagrees with them in the slightest](http://www.japantoday.com/category/politics/view/hashimoto-zaitokukai-chairman-get-into-shouting-match). They take a most vociferous form as the [Zaiutokukai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaitokukai), and anyone who has any mental image of the Japanese as a meek, slightly naive culture would do well to remind themselves of the true fanaticism of a large proportion of the populace during WWII. > > I’m not here to argue with the likes of “RickJay.” While stating a remarkable list of opinions about Japanese beliefs (please tell me what your background is that enables you to take this position); suffice to say that the Japanese as a modern race in general have little or no interest in what went on in WWII. You’d be a fool to bring it up in any conversation and the subject would be changed so fast you could swear it had never existed. My own then-wife dismissed my views about the Japanese treatment of POWs until I showed her the irrefutable evidence of that newspaper article, published during the war, on the “[Contest to Cut Down 100](https://sites.google.com/site/renemalenfant/hyakuningirikyousou).” She was uncharacteristically quiet for about a week after that. > > The only people who would bother to talk about it these days are people who have a major agenda – usually like that of the above – and they are an extremely unpleasant bunch of assholes. > > In general, the watchword in Japan today is See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Think No Evil. > > All very well to be saying “Never again” about the atomic bombs, but perhaps we should add a rewind button to that statement. Which region of Japan were you in? ---
**Author:** ![nicky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f0a364/32.png) [@nicky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nicky)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/37 "2015-03-22T11:07:04Z")
Tokyobayer: you seem knowledgeable - where’s the Japanese Schindler, Scholl, or von Stauffenberg? ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/38 "2015-03-22T11:16:35Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Which region of Japan were you in? I was based in Osaka, but I managed to make it to Hiroshima three times and Yamaguchi-ken once. My work took me all around the Osaka-Kobe-Kyoto area. ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/39 "2015-03-22T11:18:44Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Your experiences in Japan were very, very different from mine. No doubt. No doubt you weren’t there almost 25 years ago. It’s probably a very different country now. There are no veterans alive to counter the Revisionists. ---
**Author:** ![Kamakiri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f04885/32.png) [@Kamakiri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamakiri)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2015, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506/40 "2015-03-22T11:30:10Z")
> [@nicky](#): > > Tokyobayer: you seem knowledgeable - where’s the Japanese Schindler, Scholl, or von Stauffenberg? Since there was no real “Hitler” per se this is a difficult question to answer. Our major villiains, at least towards the end of the war, were a nebulous group of “militarists,” among them a guy named Korechika Anami. Some other bad guys throughout the war were Cho Osamu and our love-to-hate Tojo Hideki. But just like the Yakuza and right wing groups today, the Japanese tend to do things in _groups_. In fact, a single ruler or instigator would have been anathema to them. Very credible theories have been put forward, even by the Japanese themselves, that Hirohito had a far greater hand in things than most people know. In fact, that he actively supported the military in the early, successful years. But any von Stauffenberg would have found himself up against a large group of highly rabid militarists who would stop at almost nothing, even Emperor assassination, to achieve their twisted, nationalistic goals. That said, there was a large roster of very brave, almost suicidal Japanese who foiled the militarists at many, many different points during the war. Most of them were murdered or committed suicide. One could say that Admiral Nagumo, who came up with Pearl Harbor, and who had been educated in the States, was extremely sanguine about Japan’s chances in any war with the US. He gave Japan 'six months of unchallenged victories." But all bets were off after that. How right he was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-about-wwii-are-the-japanese-denying/715506.md?page=3)