# What adaptation is least like the source? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 20, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238 "2021-08-20T20:44:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/61 "2021-08-21T11:37:28Z")
“The Story of Mankind” - a nonfiction children’s book was adapted into a movie of the same name, which framed brief sketches about history as part of a trial of mankind being held in heaven with Satan as prosecutor. Harpo Marx played Isaac Newton in one scene, and Groucho bought Manhattan from the Indians. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/62 "2021-08-21T11:42:49Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Except the director himself said the movie wasn’t satirical. Its theme was a serious warning of how seductive fascism is, and was intended to be completely serious. But “satire” doesn’t necessarily (or in fact, usually) mean laugh-out-loud funny. It’s often the use of irony, sarcasm or exaggeration to imply some kind of political message. _Starship Troopers_ is absolutely exemplar of that. In terms of Verhoeven’s own thoughts, the closest I could find was this quote when he was discussing the _Starship Troopers_ remake: > [@Paul Verhoeven](#): > > It said in the article [that] the production team of [the remake] would go back more and more towards the novel. And of course, we really, really tried to get away from the novel, because we felt that the novel was fascistic and militaristic. > The studios always wanted not to have a layer of lightness, a layer of irony, sarcasm, satire. This seems to imply he _did_ think of his movie as being satirical. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/63 "2021-08-21T13:12:03Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@RealityChuck](#): > > > > Except the director himself said the movie wasn’t satirical. Its theme was a serious warning of how seductive fascism is, and was intended to be completely serious. > > But “satire” doesn’t necessarily (or in fact, usually) mean laugh-out-loud funny. It’s often the use of irony, sarcasm or exaggeration to imply some kind of political message. _Starship Troopers_ is absolutely exemplar of that. Not in the slightest. There is no irony, sarcasm, or exaggeration in the film; it’s all played as a straight drama. Much of that is inept, but calling it satire is like calling _Plan 9 from Outer Space_ a satire of alien invasion films. Here’s what Verhoeven said in the article you quoted: > [@Paul Verhoeven](#): > > “Our philosophy was really different [from Heinlein’s book],we wanted to do a double story, a really wonderful adventure story about these young boys and girls fighting, but we also wanted to show that these people are really, in their heart, without knowing it, are on their way to fascism,” Verhoeven said. Note that he does not mention the word “satire.” He’s talking about the movie having two levels. > [@](#): > > In terms of Verhoeven’s own thoughts, the closest I could find was this quote when he was discussing the _Starship Troopers_ remake: > > > [@Paul Verhoeven](#): > > > > It said in the article [that] the production team of [the remake] would go back more and more towards the novel. And of course, we really, really tried to get away from the novel, because we felt that the novel was fascistic and militaristic. > > The studios always wanted not to have a layer of lightness, a layer of irony, sarcasm, satire. > > This seems to imply he _did_ think of his movie as being satirical. Quite the opposite. He’s saying that the studios didn’t _want_ satire, so he didn’t provide it. Ultimately, though, the movie’s ineptitude does not make it satire. It’s an interesting concepts, but the execution is no better than Ed Wood’s. in _Plan Nine_ ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/64 "2021-08-21T13:30:36Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Not in the slightest. There is no irony, sarcasm, or exaggeration in the film; it’s all played as a straight drama. Much of that is inept, but calling it satire is like calling _Plan 9 from Outer Space_ a satire of alien invasion films. If you think there’s no irony or exaggeration in _Starship Troopers_, you watched a _very_ different movie than I did. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Note that he does not mention the word “satire.” He’s talking about the movie having two levels. And the combination of those two levels is satirical. One one level, it’s a straightforward adventure story. But the underlying level is that the characters are or are becoming fascists. If you understand the underlying level, then the straightforward adventure story level is satirical. Verhoeven thinks that _all_ military adventure stories are _inherently_ fascist, whether the creators consciously realize it or not. Verhoeven consciously incorporated those themes into the movie, as a _critique_. > [@RealityChuck](#): > > Quite the opposite. He’s saying that the studios didn’t _want_ satire, so he didn’t provide it. Quite the opposite. He literally says “we really, really tried to get away from the novel”. He’s saying that the studios didn’t want the “irony, sarcasm, satire” that his version _did_ have, which is why the proposed remake would be going back to the novel. From the Wikipedia article on the film: > [@](#): > > The film includes visual allusions to [propaganda films](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_film) such as _[Why We Fight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_We_Fight)_ , _[Triumph of the Will](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will)_ and wartime [newsreels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsreel), and the symbols and certain clothing styles of the Federation are modeled on those of the Nazis ( _e.g._ , [windbreakers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windbreaker), suits, caps, etc. Furthermore, the military intelligence officer’s uniforms bear a striking similarity to those of the _[Allgemeine-SS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allgemeine-SS)_ ).[[10]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-gemsbok-10)[[15]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-15)[[16]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-16) The use of Nazi imagery for the film’s Americanized heroes occasioned comment. At the time of the film’s theatrical release, the filmmakers did not explain their reasons for this choice. Some viewers interpreted it as a [satirical](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire) takedown of fascism, while others saw a celebration of it.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-audiocommentary-7) > > In his DVD commentary, Verhoeven said that the film’s message is that “War makes fascists of us all”. He evoked Nazi Germany’s fashion, iconography and propaganda because he saw it as a natural evolution of the United States after [World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II) and especially after the [Korean War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War). "I’ve heard this film nicknamed _[All Quiet on the](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Quiet_on_the_Western_Front)_ _[Final Frontier](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek)_ ", he said, “which is actually not far from the truth.” Screenwriter Edward Neumeier broadly concurs, although he sees a satire on human history rather than solely the United States.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-audiocommentary-7) Verhoeven says his satirical use of irony and hyperbole is “playing with [fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) or fascist imagery to point out certain aspects of American society… of course, the movie is about ‘Let’s all go to war and let’s all die.’”[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-17) > > Verhoeven also compared the film to previous [creature features](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monster_movie) from the 1950s, such as _[Them!](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Them!)_ (1954) and _[The Deadly Mantis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Deadly_Mantis)_ (1957). Speaking about these films, he said they “expressed the fear about the nuclear threat at the time and the feelings of helplessness and despair it caused”, while _Starship Troopers_ (which was filmed in a post-[Cold War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War) United States) was about “having no more enemies.” He also discussed how making movies of the sort are difficult due to [political correctness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness) but “if it’s big insects that you can shoot to pieces, nobody cares.” Tying this into the theme of the film, he said the statement of the film is that “we like enemies.”[[18]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers_(film)#cite_note-18) ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/65 "2021-08-21T13:40:13Z")
None of the many Frankenstein adaptations have been remotely close to the novel, and I’ve wondered why, since it’s a good story. Kenneth Branaugh’s “Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein” comes closest, but still takes a number of liberties with the story. When I first read the novel I was surprised to find out that the creature taught itself to read and write, and was intelligent and philosophical, having grown up with the Universal Frankensteins. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/66 "2021-08-21T14:04:10Z")
And the book monster was fast and agile. ISTR book monster described as wearing a long overcoat (probably called something else) and carrying guns. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/67 "2021-08-21T14:33:42Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Verhoeven thinks that _all_ military adventure stories are _inherently_ fascist, whether the creators consciously realize it or not. Verhoeven consciously incorporated those themes into the movie, as a _critique_ . Which adds to his assholishness. I WAS THERE when his people tried to hype the movie at WorldCon. It was presented as a straight adaptation of the novel, with no critique or other bullshit. They hyped the CGI Bugs because they ditched the power armor. That should have been a sign. Verhoeven has a special place in Hell waiting, reserved for him, child molesters and people who talk at the theater. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/68 "2021-08-21T17:16:38Z")
“[N]o irony, sarcasm, or exaggeration in [Starship Troopers]”? I think someone needs to watch it again after a viewing of Robocop, to see it more in style context. Only the most superficial viewing would come away with that opinion. It is so over the top that it’s almost camp. If they played it straight at WorldCon, then I’m sure that was part of the gag. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/69 "2021-08-21T17:38:21Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The “happy ending” to _ **Pygmalion** _ (and _ **My Fair Lady** _ ) was added by the play’s first producer, over the objections of GB Shaw. “Audiences want to see a happy ending, so we’re going to give them one.” The play actually ends with Eliza walking out on Higgins to attend her father’s wedding. The recent revival I saw at Lincoln Center a few years ago changes the ending back to more what Shaw wanted. Not because Shaw wanted it, but for a more feminist take on Eliza. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/70 "2021-08-21T17:39:57Z")
**Cheaper by the Dozen** (2003) has almost nothing in common with the 1948 book except that it’s about a family with twelve children. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/71 "2021-08-21T17:43:07Z")
> [@caligulathegod](#): > > “[N]o irony, sarcasm, or exaggeration in [Starship Troopers]”? I think someone needs to watch it again after a viewing of Robocop, to see it more in style context. Only the most superficial viewing would come away with that opinion. It is so over the top that it’s almost camp. If they played it straight at WorldCon, then I’m sure that was part of the gag. Paul Verhoeven is the Chauncey Gardiner of action movies. People assume he’s profound - probably because he’s European - but actually, he’s a singularly shallow filmmaker. He’s basically Michael Bay with a Dutch accent. (BTW, Luc Besson is his French equivalent. So, so stupid). ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/72 "2021-08-21T17:57:06Z")
I wonder if Verhoeven would be a good fit for another version of _ **Judge Dredd** _, since the source material is already a surreally satirical take on a fascist super-badass. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/73 "2021-08-21T17:59:38Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > Aside from a doctor named John Dolittle who was able to talk to animals, the movie had nothing to do with the original stories or characters. (ETA: Wikipedia mentions that the Pushmi-Pullyu made a cameo appearance, but I don’t even remember that.) When they made a Captain America movie serial during WWII, they didn’t actually bother to include a guy named Steve Rogers — or a shield, or a super-soldier serum — but, hey: who needs a pal called Bucky, or an enemy called the Red Skull, when we’ve got stories to tell about (checks notes) a District Attorney investigating apparent suicides that have nothing to do with the military? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/74 "2021-08-21T18:02:58Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I thought it was a gung-ho pro-war book, as did the SF fan who recommended it to me. I believe his exact words were “It’s the only piece of blatant military propaganda ever to win a Hugo Award.” It’s been decades since I’ve read the book, but IIRC Heinlein was simply trying to paint a picture of a highly efficient militarized society, without stating any opinion on whether he was for it or against it. It isn’t good, it isn’t bad. It simply is. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/75 "2021-08-21T18:04:51Z")
I love the film ‘The **Princess Bride** ’, but it has little to do with the book. The TV series ‘ **The Watch** ’ was a really, really bad adaptation of the Discowrld novels. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/76 "2021-08-21T18:14:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > The Last Airbender movie was apparently made by someone who had heard of the original cartoon but never watched it. The names aren’t even pronounced in a way that’s consistent to the source material. That’s the hilarious (or add the descriptor of your choice 😉) thing about this one: Shyamalan researched and watched the series with his family. “Watching _Avatar_ has become a family event in my house … so we are looking forward to how the story develops in season three,” said Shyamalan. “Once I saw the amazing world that Mike and Bryan created, I knew it would make a great feature film” So he was a fan who somehow systematically deconstructed everything good about the show and turned it into a rotting zombie of a wreck. Truly breathtaking level of “not getting it.” And Shyalaman is normally at least a technically gifted director. He should be at his best adapting other people’s better written material. But his ego and its relationship to his writing and plotting suck so hard he massively tanks 3/4 or more of the projects he gets involved in. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/77 "2021-08-21T18:37:55Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > There is no irony, sarcasm, or exaggeration in the film; it’s all played as a straight drama. Wow, you and I saw a _completely_ different film. ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/78 "2021-08-21T18:39:33Z")
Both versions of _The Nutty Professor_ are so drastically different from _Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde_ that it’s startling. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/79 "2021-08-21T18:42:25Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > So he was a fan who somehow systematically deconstructed everything good about the show and turned it into a rotting zombie of a wreck Yeah, for me personally the only saving grace of the movie is that it got me off my duff and I started watching _ATLA_ by getting the disks through Netflix. Partway through the second season I bought the set and – luckily – finished them all before the movie struck. And speaking of Netflix, the fact that Bryke have disassociated themselves from that organization’s live action effort does not fill me with confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Bonum\_Legatum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bonum_legatum/32/6183_2.png) [@Bonum\_Legatum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bonum_Legatum)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2021, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238/80 "2021-08-21T18:56:46Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > It’s been decades since I’ve read the book, but IIRC Heinlein was simply trying to paint a picture of a highly efficient militarized society, without stating any opinion on whether he was for it or against it. It isn’t good, it isn’t bad. It simply is. Sorry for the hijack, but I’ve had to get this off my chest: In the Heinlein anthology “Expanded Universe”, there is a section titled “Who are the heirs of Patrick Henry”. Heinlein wrote an afterword to that section that includes a defense of Starship Troopers. He wrote that his purpose was to glorify the recruit, the common “Tommy Atkins”. He further points out that in the story Starship Troopers the military is despised (his word) by the larger society. I’ve always felt that this afterword should be part of any reprint of Starship Troopers, just as Walden is almost always paired with On The Duty of Civil Disobedience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-adaptation-is-least-like-the-source/949238.md?page=5)