# What advantages did mail provide compared to other forms of armor? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115 "2012-08-21T00:24:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/21 "2012-08-23T20:00:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I have never heard of armour made of rope, outside of that used by more primitive tribal societies. Rope armour was never used, to my knowledge, in the same time period that maille was available. I will grant that my focus of study is mostly on what was used in pre-17th century Europe and the Middle East…so I could be wrong. I would very much like to see a cite that shows rope armour being used by any non-aboriginal, non-tribal war units. It’s not exactly rope armor, but the Aztecs used Cotton Armor, which the Conquistadors found so attractive that they adopted it themselves, according to Bernal Diaz and historians. I don’t know what the attraction was, but I’ve always assumed it was the lightness and relative comfort from more breathability and ability to dry off sweat. Here’s a page about it: > **[Pre-Columbian Cotton Armor: Better than Steel - Pints of History](https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/)** > > Was Inca and Aztec cotton armor better than steel? The Europeans were masters hard materials, but the natives were masters of tension: of fabric. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/22 "2012-08-23T20:49:43Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > It’s not exactly rope armor, but the Aztecs used Cotton Armor, which the Conquistadors found so attractive that they adopted it themselves, according to Bernal Diaz and historians. Eh, no, that article is misleading. The Spanish would have been no strangers to padded armour. Yes, in the heat they may have abandoned metal and worn locally-made fabric armours, but not because it was some wonderous new tech to them. Europeans were perfectly familiar with cotton padded armour. The very name for the darn things in French, aketon, comes from the Arabic for cotton. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/23 "2012-08-24T00:09:40Z")
One thing I would touch on is that _cost_ is a huge factor in what kind fo armor people made, wore, and used, as well as the related question of who pays for it. The Romans from the late Republic onward tended to provide soldiers with armor at public expense; that meant standardization, a need for cost-effectiveness, and armor that could be retained, repaired, and reused by the state. European fighting men in the post-Roman era had more individual wealth, but fewer resources to work with (though those resources were often ingeniously effective). This changed the way they made and used armor. As Woeg implied, armor is not really a one-variety-to-an-age deal. Armors come and go according to current needs, and there has never been a universal standard even among one nation for one combat era. It’s always a mixture of varying proportions. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/24 "2012-08-24T13:05:57Z")
mmm, **Blake** ’s definitely around the site, but still no cites… ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/25 "2012-08-24T13:28:00Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Eh, no, that article is misleading. The Spanish would have been no strangers to padded armour. Yes, in the heat they may have abandoned metal and worn locally-made fabric armours, but not because it was some wonderous new tech to them. Europeans were perfectly familiar with cotton padded armour. The very name for the darn things in French, aketon, comes from the Arabic for cotton. Damned if I can remember where I read it, but I do recall reading an account in which the Spaniards were not surprised at the use of padded armour, but at its effectiveness against the weapons used by the indigenous people they encountered. Again, it has been years since I read it, so I’ll have to do some digging to find the source, but I believe what surprised them was that their maille and plate was less effective against stone-based arrowheads not because it didn’t prevent penetration, but because it caused the arrowheads to fragment into shrapnel that then caused injuries. The padded armour kept the same arrowheads from shattering and snared them, stopping deep penetration. While this is NOT my area of expertise, I believe that the bows used by the Aztecs, et al, were a lot less powerful in general than the ones that had been developed for warfare in Europe, so cloth armour stopping an arrow may have been what surprised the Spaniards more than the use of cloth as armour. I’m pretty busy, but if I can find the account, I’ll post a cite to it. ---
**Author:** ![Woeg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/df705f/32.png) [@Woeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Woeg)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2012, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/26 "2012-08-24T13:35:04Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > It’s not exactly rope armor, but the Aztecs used Cotton Armor, which the Conquistadors found so attractive that they adopted it themselves, according to Bernal Diaz and historians. I don’t know what the attraction was, but I’ve always assumed it was the lightness and relative comfort from more breathability and ability to dry off sweat. > > Here’s a page about it: > > [http://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/](http://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/) Unfortunately, I can’t read that site from work - stupid random filters! I will also posit that the adoption of lighter armour may have been a case of realizing that what they were wearing was overkill - why carry the weight and go through the effort of wearing heavy armour when a padded jack does just as good at protecting with a lot less maintenance? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115/27 "2012-08-25T08:00:25Z")
> [@Woeg](#): > > Unfortunately, I can’t read that site from work - stupid random filters! > > I will also posit that the adoption of lighter armour may have been a case of realizing that what they were wearing was overkill - why carry the weight and go through the effort of wearing heavy armour when a padded jack does just as good at protecting with a lot less maintenance? Probably the point at which they realised they were not ever going to be attacked by iron weapons, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advantages-did-mail-provide-compared-to-other-forms-of-armor/632115.md?page=1)