# What advice do you have for a new motorcycle rider? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016 "2015-08-27T03:18:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ac8455/32.png) [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Your_Great_Darsh_Face)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/41 "2015-08-28T11:24:17Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > \*\*What advice do you have for a new motorcycle rider? > \*\* > > Sell it and get a car. There’s a word going through my mind, I can’t think what it is, but I know it rhymes with “head-hitting”. :rolleyes: Having abundant experience on both sides of the fence, I can certainly tell you that your road awareness as a car driver will progress immensely by riding motorbikes. Be aware that they’re much more dangerous than cars, but that the risk can be estimated and found acceptable. I’ve lived through many tens of thousands of miles of it - go thou and do likewise. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/42 "2015-08-28T13:21:38Z")
If your just riding local you might consider a “scooter” type motorcycle like a Vespa. They get great gas mileage and are easy to handle. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/43 "2015-08-28T16:44:05Z")
Around here, the traffic on major highways like the PA Turnpike or 376 Corridor cruises along at 75 to 80 mph. Every so often, I see someone on such a highway driving a scooter or a small bike. It’s clear that the bike is out of throttle just barely keeping pace with the cars. Then too, such rides get blown around considerable when they get passed, which is often. A bike suitable for more than just tooling around on the local streets and side roads needs a certain amount of power and weight. Getting blown all over your lane as an 18-wheeler barrels around you isn’t fun and it isn’t safe. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/44 "2015-08-28T18:05:55Z")
> [@Count\_Blucher](#): > > Pick which leg you like best? (…not that it’ll ever come up…) 😃 I’m sure I’m missing something, but, how is this “funny”? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2015, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/45 "2015-08-28T20:38:23Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Are you at all interested in riding on dirt? If I had to do it over again, I think a 250 dual sport bike would be a good a first bike (assuming one has the inseam for it.) The newer ones will do anything a new rider needs them to on-road (and are forgiving of being dropped, which is nice) but once you move on to a different street bike it’s still nice to have something that’s nimble for messing around in the hills. Yeah, its not always realistic, but my advice is for any new rider to put in a couple years off-road first. Best way to learn countersteering. No cars to kill you, softer if you fall off. Get a nice SNELL full-face helmet. Always get on and off the _left side_ of the bike. 😉 Good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/46 "2015-08-29T04:27:41Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Around here, the traffic on major highways like the PA Turnpike or 376 Corridor cruises along at 75 to 80 mph. Every so often, I see someone on such a highway driving a scooter or a small bike. It’s clear that the bike is out of throttle just barely keeping pace with the cars. Then too, such rides get blown around considerable when they get passed, which is often. A bike suitable for more than just tooling around on the local streets and side roads needs a certain amount of power and weight. Getting blown all over your lane as an 18-wheeler barrels around you isn’t fun and it isn’t safe. I didnt know if he was just driving local or on the interstates. Yeah you need a bigger bike for that. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/47 "2015-08-29T05:43:20Z")
The best fun you can have with your clothes on, biking is wonderful. The slower I ride, the more I can enjoy the environment I’m riding through. ALGATT is great for low speed crashes but it won’t save your life in a high-speed impact like a cage, seatbelt and airbag will. Counter steering is well worth learning, it isn’t just for the track, as is watching what the car ahead of the car ahead of you is doing, plus you need to be able to account for the environment. You’ll need to be aware of how slippery the road is, where the wind’s coming from, where the sun is, where a cager’s blind spots are, if that truck in the line ahead of you is about to turn left (he’s either forgotten to turn on his indicator or it’s broken), and are the riding conditions going to change before you get back home. I’ve rarely ridden off-road but a friend does regularly and his front wheel got bogged down and he tore his shoulder muscles, another friend wiped out on a race track and smashed his collar bone, another friend lost the front wheel - you’ll never recover when losing the front - on a corner on a public road and broke his arm. Another friend lost his leg. I’ve ridden in five countries and never crashed, probably because I’m shit-scared when on two wheels and never ridden a fast bike. I stick to 250cc or under and will only filter, stick my knee out or break the speed limit when I’m very familiar with the road and the weather’s optimal. “Don’t be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” – E. Hamilton Lee, 1949 Planes fly in three dimensions but the analogy holds true as a biker, plus you also could be flying in three dimensions if you aren’t careful. ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/48 "2015-08-29T06:43:24Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > Get a copy of [Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620081199/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687742&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1889540692&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1AV5SZJXPW76D260MV06), and read it over and over. It’s a good read and has a lot of good information in it. > > Get a white helmet, not a black one. Yeah, black (or blue, or red) ones look cool, but white ones are much more noticeable and that is the key. You want to be sure others notice you (not just see you). Book purchased, will be reading it over the next month or so. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Remember, a wet street is a very slippery street. A very slippery street. True with almost any rear-wheel drive vehicle. My former Miata was a bitch in wet and icy/snowy weather. > [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > If you’re just starting out, and you don’t have fun on a 250, you’re doing it wrong. Those things have plenty of power for everyday riding, and you won’t feel any lack of power because you won’t have any thing to compare it to, experience wise. I still have fond memories of my old Honda 90. It was all the fun of riding a bicycle, without the exertion. Imagine a cool Fall morning, floating down a tree lined secondary highway, taking in the colors and smells without the windows and roof of a car blocking the view. You’re gonna love it! Honestly, I don’t want much more than a 300. Sure, that may change, but right now, It’s all the power I need, since I’m doing mostly in town/street driving and parking lot practicing to start out anyways. > [@GreasyJack](#): > > Are you at all interested in riding on dirt? If I had to do it over again, I think a 250 dual sport bike would be a good a first bike (assuming one has the inseam for it.) The newer ones will do anything a new rider needs them to on-road (and are forgiving of being dropped, which is nice) but once you move on to a different street bike it’s still nice to have something that’s nimble for messing around in the hills. > > That said, I have a Ninja 250 and it’s a really great bike. It actually wasn’t my first bike; I sort of inherited it from someone and mostly use it as a runabout, but I’ve also done longer trips on it. Unlike a lot of other starter bikes out there, it’s a pretty nice basic utilitarian bike you’re only really going to outgrow when you decide you want something more specialized. I’m absolutely considering riding on a dual-sport. I just want know until I’m comfortable on a motorcycle itself, and don’t wanna even touch the decision of which to purchase until I know I’m not going to crash and burn at parking lot speeds in the training course. > [@Magiver](#): > > Where are you taking the course? Delaware, OH. Closest, soonest course (since I work 7 on, 7 off, I’d rather get the endorsement out of the way the sooner the better to get to practicing). > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Motorcycles were never designed to share the roads with automobiles. > > Do you live somewhere where it is summer all year long? Motorcycle and cars do fine as long as both are paying attention to each other. I may not have worked up the courage to learn to ride until recently, but after reading the MSF training years ago, I’ve tried very hard to be cognizant of motorcycles in the road and to protect them from other idiot drivers if necessary. Were my efforts perfect? Probably not, but then I’ve never come close to hitting a biker, as opposed to a soccer mom in her SUV on her cell phone (likely still under the influence of a massive ton of sleeping pills given where I work and drive). But no, Ohio sucks for year round riding, or so I’m told. If I buy the bike next month, I’ll probably use it to practice maneuvering technique in parking lots until it get too cold (cold weather gear which doesn’t look ridiculous appears expensive as hell), park the bike in my garage, then worry about road practice at a later/warmer date. ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/49 "2015-08-29T12:03:54Z")
Which now is probably going to have to wait, as my jeep blew out a tire on the way to training this morning, and I dont know if they’ll let me reschedule without repaying the fee. Here’s hoping… ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/50 "2015-08-29T20:45:44Z")
Ah, that sucks. Hopefully you can get it rescheduled. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > But no, Ohio sucks for year round riding, or so I’m told. If I buy the bike next month, I’ll probably use it to practice maneuvering technique in parking lots until it get too cold (cold weather gear which doesn’t look ridiculous appears expensive as hell), park the bike in my garage, then worry about road practice at a later/warmer date. One thing you’ll learn is that people have _very_ different opinions of what kind of weather is rideable. There are definitely people who think it’s only a June-July-August hobby, but that’s definitely not a hard and fast rule. In fact, you may very well find that the best riding is on the shoulder seasons in Fall and Spring, not the hottest part of Summer, especially if you’re an ATGATT rider. The first few years I was riding, I stored the bikes for the winter, but I found I was gradually storing them later and bringing them out earlier. The last year I did it, I put them away in late November and brought them out in mid-February. Now I just don’t do it. I’m in a part of the country with fairly brutal winters, but I find there’s always a few days here and there where the temperature is above freezing and the roads are dry that I can take them out and avoid storage related problems. Oh, also I personally don’t think cold weather specific gear is all that necessary, other than gloves. Just layer underneath your normal armor and you should be able to stay reasonably warm down to freezing. If I lived somewhere like Seattle where you get a whole winter full of 35-40 degree days you can ride in, I could see investing in some nice heated gear but if you live somewhere with cold winters where you’re just snatching a riding day here and there from the clutches of winter, swaddling up with layers works fine. ETA: Of course the other thing is that Fall and Winter are the absolute best times to buy a bike, deals-wise. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/51 "2015-08-29T21:40:51Z")
Delaware is too far for where I was going to suggest. I’m not sure why you’re focusing on small sport bikes. I just started out late last year. I bought a Honda 650. It’s 450 lbs and 60 hp. Great starter bike you can grow into. It’s light and all the hp is in the upper range so it’s there but you have to deliberately crack open the throttle to use it. You can buy bikes like these all day long used for $3000 or less in decent shape. If you ding it it’s not the end of the world. Things I’ve learned as a new bike rider that I didn’t anticipate: Unlike cars a bike clutch is a wet clutch designed for constant use. This should be hammered into you in the class and probably won’t be. We used Honda 250’s and I had a lot of trouble at low speeds because my brain kept screaming to get off the clutch or you’ll burn it up. It doesn’t matter how light or heavy the bike is at low speeds because it still takes a lot of slippage to keep control of the bike. The clutch is your friend and the 1st thing that gets you out of trouble. They should spend an hour just talking about it but they won’t. braking. I learned on my own how to shut a bike down quickly. You have to keep the bike straight or bad things happen. What nobody told me is that even rolling at a half mph you can dump the bike if you turn the wheel. I found this out when coming to a “Y” intersection. I was literally almost completely stopped and had actually rushed it a bit. The weight of the bike pushed on the forks. At the very last second I turned the wheel to the right and the bike went over in slow motion. The momentum of the bike increased the weight enough that I couldn’t stop it. I can’t emphasize enough that the bike was only moving a fraction of a mph but I stopped too quickly and the momentum carried it over. Gravel. a subject all to it’s own. I’ve hit it twice. the second time both wheels slid independently and I had to put my foot down to stabilize it. Broke my foot doing it. That’s the danger of night riding. It’s hard to see gravel. But gravel doesn’t fall from the sky. It’s somewhat predictable and There are multipe ways it gets there. Pot holes (which caught me by surprise), vehicles pulling onto the road dragging it forward, and RAIN. I was riding a country road after a torrential rain and came upon a blind curve. It was next to a hill. I shut it down to a walk and what I found on the curve was a layer of gravel that had washed off the hill. There would have been no way to keep the bike up if I hit it at any normal road speed. I dodged a bullet on that one but I predicted the possibility. Situational awareness. If you’re looking around for traffic that’s great but if you drive based on what’s around you you’re literally behind the curve. You have to be mentally driving ahead of the bike. It’s not enough to be aware of the car’s around you. You have to actively be thinking of your exit strategy. People change lanes and run red lights and pull out in front of other vehicles all the time. I just had a dump truck change change over 2 lines in front of me the other day. He cut me off and the car to my left. My exit strategy was to the right away from both of them and that mean looking at traffic behind me both to the left and right. Even in my car I don’t drive through blind intersections. I assume someone is going to run it. I recently stopped at the intersection by my house and a car blew right passed the stop sign. It was a police car. Yesterday I had a car turn into my like I was invisible. I had already shifted gears down and was able to accelerate forward. Mirrors - I assumed too much with my mirrors. It takes a totally different scanning habit to capture what is going on around me. Too often I had cars passing me on a highway that I wasn’t expecting. I’m getting better at it but It’s an ongoing skill I’m working on. Tools - You should have a mini-set of cables (for a dead battery) and small tool set to adjust headlight, mirrors or tighten down external items such as horns and lights. I ran the battery down one night and it was a circus getting it started. Couldn’t get to the battery. That’s all I can think of as a beginner. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/52 "2015-08-29T21:45:23Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > Ah, that sucks. Hopefully you can get it rescheduled. > > One thing you’ll learn is that people have _very_ different opinions of what kind of weather is rideable. There are definitely people who think it’s only a June-July-August hobby, but that’s definitely not a hard and fast rule. In fact, you may very well find that the best riding is on the shoulder seasons in Fall and Spring, not the hottest part of Summer, especially if you’re an ATGATT rider. > > The first few years I was riding, I stored the bikes for the winter, but I found I was gradually storing them later and bringing them out earlier. The last year I did it, I put them away in late November and brought them out in mid-February. Now I just don’t do it. I’m in a part of the country with fairly brutal winters, but I find there’s always a few days here and there where the temperature is above freezing and the roads are dry that I can take them out and avoid storage related problems. > > Oh, also I personally don’t think cold weather specific gear is all that necessary, other than gloves. Just layer underneath your normal armor and you should be able to stay reasonably warm down to freezing. If I lived somewhere like Seattle where you get a whole winter full of 35-40 degree days you can ride in, I could see investing in some nice heated gear but if you live somewhere with cold winters where you’re just snatching a riding day here and there from the clutches of winter, swaddling up with layers works fine. > > ETA: Of course the other thing is that Fall and Winter are the absolute best times to buy a bike, deals-wise. Excellent advice. You might consider the following: If you wait until just after Christmas and visit a few dealerships, you might just find someone that you like and respect. It’s an ideal time - not just for a good deal - but also because most people at a dealership would have lots of time to spend with you and give you their attention. When I bought my bike, there were several dealerships in my city. Most of them were only interested in getting you in and then getting you out just as fast as they could and finding the way to extract as much money from you as possible. But there was one dealership where the staff was honestly interested in their customers. If you can spend some time on the net and find such a dealer, Winter (and specifically just after Christmas) should be a wonderful time for you to spend your time with a dealer. I’m just guessing but I would think that would be a good strategy. What do you think? P.S. It was wrong for me to suggest up-thread that anyone who buys a bike is likely going to die. I really shouldn’t have done that. But it is true that great care is required to avoid driving mayhem. I wish you all the best. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/53 "2015-08-29T21:54:27Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Motorcycle and cars do fine as long as both are paying attention to each other. > \ I would certainly agree with that. But, I’m sorry to say there are many car drivers who just do not pay attention to bike riders and it would be a mistake to feel confident that you will be OK because you are paying attention to cars and assume that car drivers are paying attention to bike riders. Unfortunately, there are plenty of car drivers who just do not pay attention to bike riders. Taking a course is a real good idea - especially if they teach you defensive driving techniques. My best wishes to you. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/54 "2015-08-29T22:10:30Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Which now is probably going to have to wait, as my jeep blew out a tire on the way to training this morning, and I dont know if they’ll let me reschedule without repaying the fee. Here’s hoping… Even if you have to eat the $50 it’s still worth taking the course again. Upon passing you are immediately eligible for the license and you learn a lot. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/55 "2015-08-29T22:39:55Z")
It’s been a while now since I’ve ridden, so I don’t have too many things to add. Oh yeah. When embarking on a long ride, always pick a song to sing before you set off. Otherwise you’ll have “The Birdy Song” stuck in your head for the whole trip. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/56 "2015-08-30T01:57:31Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Oh yeah. When embarking on a long ride, always pick a song to sing before you set off. Otherwise you’ll have “The Birdy Song” stuck in your head for the whole trip. Oh Jesus, definitely this. Except in my case, it’s always this one seem Juliana Hatfield song. ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/57 "2015-08-30T02:40:58Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Which now is probably going to have to wait, as my jeep blew out a tire on the way to training this morning, and I dont know if they’ll let me reschedule without repaying the fee. Here’s hoping… > [@GreasyJack](#): > > Ah, that sucks. Hopefully you can get it rescheduled. They won’t let me reschedule, sadly. I have to take the whole thing again, even the classroom portion. Which was boring as can be, not because it didn’t have some good information, but because I’d read it 3-4 times by that point. Still better than Iron Pony’s $232 fee for the same course, I guess, and Friday was payday. > [@](#): > > One thing you’ll learn is that people have _very_ different opinions of what kind of weather is rideable. There are definitely people who think it’s only a June-July-August hobby, but that’s definitely not a hard and fast rule. In fact, you may very well find that the best riding is on the shoulder seasons in Fall and Spring, not the hottest part of Summer, especially if you’re an ATGATT rider. > > The first few years I was riding, I stored the bikes for the winter, but I found I was gradually storing them later and bringing them out earlier. The last year I did it, I put them away in late November and brought them out in mid-February. Now I just don’t do it. I’m in a part of the country with fairly brutal winters, but I find there’s always a few days here and there where the temperature is above freezing and the roads are dry that I can take them out and avoid storage related problems. > > Oh, also I personally don’t think cold weather specific gear is all that necessary, other than gloves. Just layer underneath your normal armor and you should be able to stay reasonably warm down to freezing. If I lived somewhere like Seattle where you get a whole winter full of 35-40 degree days you can ride in, I could see investing in some nice heated gear but if you live somewhere with cold winters where you’re just snatching a riding day here and there from the clutches of winter, swaddling up with layers works fine. > > ETA: Of course the other thing is that Fall and Winter are the absolute best times to buy a bike, deals-wise. I’ve come across the same variant of individuals, but the truth is, especially when I was on mild psychostimulants for my ADHD, I started having bouts of Raynaud’s Phenomenon when the weather gets cold, even with gloves, and I suspect you’ll agree that pain, numbness, tingling, and possible loss of control of my hands while winter riding doesn’t seem the most…prudent of choices for a new rider. 🙂 > [@Magiver](#): > > Delaware is too far for where I was going to suggest. Honestly, they had the earliest classes available. I wanted to get as much practice time in before the weather got too cold. But yes, it was a far drive from where I live (30-45 minutes). > [@](#): > > I’m not sure why you’re focusing on small sport bikes. I just started out late last year. I bought a Honda 650. It’s 450 lbs and 60 hp. Great starter bike you can grow into. It’s light and all the hp is in the upper range so it’s there but you have to deliberately crack open the throttle to use it. You can buy bikes like these all day long used for $3000 or less in decent shape. If you ding it it’s not the end of the world. It’s almost purely an appearance/size thing. I don’t want or need a bigger bike. Street legal 250cc and 300cc bikes are more than adequate (or so I’ve read) for getting around town, I’m not exactly a big guy, and honestly, without being able to pinpoint it, there’s something about them that speaks me. Maybe it’s the difference between a basic but competent non-motorized bicycle versus a fancier racing bike. The former sounds fun, the latter just too much for what I want to do with it. I appreciate the honesty of you and several others pointing out that 500cc bikes are perfectly fine for new riders as well, they just don’t currently appeal to me in the same way. > [@](#): > > Things I’ve learned as a new bike rider that I didn’t anticipate: > > Unlike cars a bike clutch is a wet clutch designed for constant use. This should be hammered into you in the class and probably won’t be. We used Honda 250’s and I had a lot of trouble at low speeds because my brain kept screaming to get off the clutch or you’ll burn it up. It doesn’t matter how light or heavy the bike is at low speeds because it still takes a lot of slippage to keep control of the bike. The clutch is your friend and the 1st thing that gets you out of trouble. They should spend an hour just talking about it but they won’t. Honestly felt the same learning to drive a standard transmission car. Balancing the clutch/gas/throttle is almost an art you have to learn with each car/bike and was probably the thing that took the longest to master (I even eventually learned how to shift without the clutch in my former Miata, but it took forever). > [@](#): > > braking. I learned on my own how to shut a bike down quickly. You have to keep the bike straight or bad things happen. What nobody told me is that even rolling at a half mph you can dump the bike if you turn the wheel. I found this out when coming to a “Y” intersection. I was literally almost completely stopped and had actually rushed it a bit. The weight of the bike pushed on the forks. At the very last second I turned the wheel to the right and the bike went over in slow motion. The momentum of the bike increased the weight enough that I couldn’t stop it. I can’t emphasize enough that the bike was only moving a fraction of a mph but I stopped too quickly and the momentum carried it over. > > Gravel. a subject all to it’s own. I’ve hit it twice. the second time both wheels slid independently and I had to put my foot down to stabilize it. Broke my foot doing it. That’s the danger of night riding. It’s hard to see gravel. But gravel doesn’t fall from the sky. It’s somewhat predictable and There are multipe ways it gets there. Pot holes (which caught me by surprise), vehicles pulling onto the road dragging it forward, and RAIN. I was riding a country road after a torrential rain and came upon a blind curve. It was next to a hill. I shut it down to a walk and what I found on the curve was a layer of gravel that had washed off the hill. There would have been no way to keep the bike up if I hit it at any normal road speed. I dodged a bullet on that one but I predicted the possibility. > > Situational awareness. If you’re looking around for traffic that’s great but if you drive based on what’s around you you’re literally behind the curve. You have to be mentally driving ahead of the bike. It’s not enough to be aware of the car’s around you. You have to actively be thinking of your exit strategy. People change lanes and run red lights and pull out in front of other vehicles all the time. I just had a dump truck change change over 2 lines in front of me the other day. He cut me off and the car to my left. My exit strategy was to the right away from both of them and that mean looking at traffic behind me both to the left and right. Even in my car I don’t drive through blind intersections. I assume someone is going to run it. I recently stopped at the intersection by my house and a car blew right passed the stop sign. It was a police car. Yesterday I had a car turn into my like I was invisible. I had already shifted gears down and was able to accelerate forward. > > Mirrors - I assumed too much with my mirrors. It takes a totally different scanning habit to capture what is going on around me. Too often I had cars passing me on a highway that I wasn’t expecting. I’m getting better at it but It’s an ongoing skill I’m working on. > > Tools - You should have a mini-set of cables (for a dead battery) and small tool set to adjust headlight, mirrors or tighten down external items such as horns and lights. I ran the battery down one night and it was a circus getting it started. Couldn’t get to the battery. > > That’s all I can think of as a beginner. Coming at this solely from a “book learning” standpoint, all solid advice (and in line with what I’ve read). Ultimately, I think I can read every book on the subject and still won’t know until I’ve learned to muscle memory dual braking, squeeze left for clutch, remember what gear I’m in with the left gear shift, and just how much throttle roll does what, while keeping body and handlebar angle appropriate for the situation–which knowing me is going to take time. Here’s hoping for 2 weeks from now going better. > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Excellent advice. You might consider the following: > > If you wait until just after Christmas and visit a few dealerships, you might just find someone that you like and respect. It’s an ideal time - not just for a good deal - but also because most people at a dealership would have lots of time to spend with you and give you their attention. > > When I bought my bike, there were several dealerships in my city. Most of them were only interested in getting you in and then getting you out just as fast as they could and finding the way to extract as much money from you as possible. > > But there was one dealership where the staff was honestly interested in their customers. If you can spend some time on the net and find such a dealer, Winter (and specifically just after Christmas) should be a wonderful time for you to spend your time with a dealer. > > I’m just guessing but I would think that would be a good strategy. > > What do you think? > > P.S. It was wrong for me to suggest up-thread that anyone who buys a bike is likely going to die. I really shouldn’t have done that. But it is true that great care is required to avoid driving mayhem. > > I wish you all the best. It’s never imprudent to suggest having one’s ducks in one’s order when it comes to starting a particularly risky activity, and I took it in that spirit. I do need a living will (the insurance benefits already have beneficiaries attached and I’ve spent years building up my HSA to have double the out of pocket maximum in it should something go terribly wrong. I’ll consider a winter bike purchase, of course, should I come across the right one. > [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > I would certainly agree with that. But, I’m sorry to say there are many car drivers who just do not pay attention to bike riders and it would be a mistake to feel confident that you will be OK because you are paying attention to cars and assume that car drivers are paying attention to bike riders. Unfortunately, there are plenty of car drivers who just do not pay attention to bike riders. > > Taking a course is a real good idea - especially if they teach you defensive driving techniques. > > My best wishes to you. Thank you. > [@Magiver](#): > > Even if you have to eat the $50 it’s still worth taking the course again. Upon passing you are immediately eligible for the license and you learn a lot. Oh, I agree, It’ll be worth it. I just tend to hate classroom group activities, especially ones I’ve already done. It’d be nice if they let me skip all that and just turn in the written test, even if I had to pay the $50 to do just that. Unfortunately, the damage to my car was more severe than anticipated (shredded the front-left tire wall, bent the rim, possibly threw the front axle out of alignment), so I’m stuck with a repair bill for my Jeep (or at least what the insurance won’t cover) on top of everything else. Hopefully lesson learned when driving (probably too fast–I was late) in a roundabout though–one can swerve too hard to avoid getting hit by someone driving while on their cellphone encroaching on your lane. Part of me wishes cars would just jam the stupid things while running. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/58 "2015-08-30T03:12:59Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Honestly felt the same learning to drive a standard transmission car. Balancing the clutch/gas/throttle is almost an art you have to learn with each car/bike and was probably the thing that took the longest to master (I even eventually learned how to shift without the clutch in my former Miata, but it took forever). I took to driving manual shift cars on day one. I found the bike clutch easy enough for normal riding but it was burned into me not to ride a clutch. The 250’s used in class were harder for me than my 650. I just sucked on the 250’s. We had 5 women, (some really short) who had never been on a bike before. All of them did better than me and I had been riding for a month. Not that I have a fragile male ego but I was frustrated with my learning curve. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/59 "2015-08-30T03:15:51Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > I’ve come across the same variant of individuals, but the truth is, especially when I was on mild psychostimulants for my ADHD, I started having bouts of Raynaud’s Phenomenon when the weather gets cold, even with gloves, and I suspect you’ll agree that pain, numbness, tingling, and possible loss of control of my hands while winter riding doesn’t seem the most…prudent of choices for a new rider. 🙂 He sure amazing. Heated gloves are even more incredible. Heated gloves and a heated jacket liner, you could ride in anything! It was only the last couple years of my 21 years in Seattle then I discovered this fact… Years of commuting in the winter freezing everything off, and I figured it all out at the very end. Just in time to move to California where I never need to worry about it again. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2015, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/60 "2015-08-30T03:15:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Honestly felt the same learning to drive a standard transmission car. Balancing the clutch/gas/throttle is almost an art you have to learn with each car/bike and was probably the thing that took the longest to master (I even eventually learned how to shift without the clutch in my former Miata, but it took forever). I took the class after years of experience driving manual transmission cars. bike transmissions are the same, and yet completely different. getting underway and shifting gears is pretty similar (once you get used to clutching with your hand and shifting with your foot) but at low speeds on a bike, you use the clutch a _lot._ manual transmission cars have dry clutches, and can’t tolerate much significant slippage. most bikes have wet clutches, and can tolerate so much slippage that “clutch control” is a key part of low speed maneuvers. Too bad that most basic rider courses think teaching clutch control is little more than barking the words “clutch control” at you over and over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016.md?page=4)