# What advice do you have for a new motorcycle rider? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 27, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016 "2015-08-27T03:18:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/101 "2015-09-28T13:23:28Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK. Only you can know what you’re capable of. Learning this is an autonomic function. It’s literally like walking or riding a bike. If the class environment is freaking you out I understand that. But I would suggest that you don’t buy a used 250. At least not like the ones in class. They SUCK. Seriously, I hated them. I started out and am still currently riding a 4 cylinder Honda 650. It’s a 450 lb bike and it makes a great starter bike. If you can get a motorcycle moving forward and shifting gears on your own then you can learn to ride. Which I would argue, I was doing. Starting and stopping every 10-20 feet, while an _incredibly_ valuable skill, doesn’t actually give me a feel for how my hand is supposed to pseudo-“lock” the throttle in a quarter roll-on (so moderate-low RPMs in gear 1–and this is the formerly broken wrist hand which has never regained full roll-on motion (i can hit about 80 degrees from flat)) while messing with friction zone which is supposed to kick in at about 1/4" from all the way squeezed but honest to the FSM, the Friction zone felt like it was closer to 1/2" to 3/4" (Suzuki TU250X, if anyone is familiar). Honestly, I wish the MSF would understand that when someone says they have NO riding exerience, then having an instructor (there were 4 present) set us newbies on outer cones while allowing those with some experience to move at their own pace on inner cones, even if it meant paying triple to grasp a basic skill. Simply put, I was expected to keep pace with a guy who has been riding for over 10 years without a license, a girl who failed out the same way I did (who went and bought a bike to practice with for several weeks), a girl who rode dirtbikes and ATVs at a kid, and several students who at the very least had dirt bike/moped experience from childhood, none of which I possess. I honestly have nothing against higher CC bikes, except I’m already sore from power-walking a 250cc bike for 2 hours, and I don’t really have anyone I know who can help me learn the subtleties of the friction zone, and so on. Maybe I’m out of shape. Maybe job stress is, even a week later, getting in the way, of melding the various components together smoothly and coherently. But you and others keep pushing this “don’t get a 250cc displacement bike, get a 500-650cc bike”, and honestly I’m confused as to why. Better friction zones? Throttle more forgiving? Not much difference in weight? > [@](#): > > You can keep buying learner’s permits indefinitely. I know people who went years riding this way. You can’t ride at night, or take passengers and you must wear a helmet. Which is where you’re at now anyway. Unless I misread, Ohio requires re-testing every year for your temps. This isn’t a problem. I passed the temp license within an hour of studying. > [@](#): > > I will say this, it’s NOT an expensive hobby unless you make it expensive. FLYING is an expensive hobby. But riding a motorcycle is similar in that the autonomic skill is just the basics needed to move the vehicle. You have to be thinking well ahead of a motorcycle to ride it safely. You can get in trouble much faster in a motorcycle than an airplane. Expensive in the context of needing to buy a good quality helmet (probably priority #1), full fingered gloves, comfortable riding boots (mine were so thickin the soles, I couldn’t tell the difference between the foot rests and the gear shift/right-rear break pedal) and a vented cycle jacket on top of long pants, which can add anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to $2000 easily, on top of a $1000-$5000 investment for a bike (used to new) for the small displacement engines. Expensive as an airplane? Not even close, I’ll happily grant you. > [@jz78817](#): > > You’re having the same kinds of.problems I did the first time I took the class. Honestly most of the classes offered by e.g. community colleges have way too many students which means they have little time to actually instruct people how to do stuff. Simply barking “clutch control” at me isn’t helping me figure out how to do it. Plus, a 2-day class isn’t nearly enough for a n00b. > > I ended up taking a privately run class and passed. Still weak on low speed maneuvers but I’m getting better. > Oh, and if you’re more comfortable starting out with a smaller "starter bike, " then do so and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise. I’m very cautious in how I approach things, so I found aa cheap used Yamaha V-Star 250 on Craigslist and spent the summer getting my legs on that. Glad I did, since it madee my transition to a Dyna Switchback that much easier 😃 My next goal is to buy a cheap bicycle, make sure I’m NOT having balance problems (what the instructor initially thought was my problem–it was’t, but I won’t rule it out, entirely), work on stress reduction techniques, and continue to exercise to attempt to “right” my brain to be able to handle stress appropriately. Then, I’ll probably search for private tutors who can ride a cheap bike to someplace safe to practice, and practice till I get the basics down. The MSF may be for everyone, but clearly it isn’t for me. > [@Bi5h0p](#): > > To the OP: there is a very good reason for you to go back and re-evaluate your, “I’m a chicken-$#!t,” statement - just go to YouTube and watch a compilation of motorcycle accidents. Unless you are suicidal, I highly recommend getting yourself back into a full-sized car or truck. The bottom line is that no matter how good of a rider you are, you have very little protection in a collision. Let me take you back to that saying, “Whatever doesn’t kill you just makes you stronger.” Well, NO. I am afraid that when you are riding a motorcycle, whatever doesn’t kill you does not make you stronger - it leaves you severely injured, maimed, and/or disabled for the remainder of your natural life. > [@jz78817](#): > > or, we could do something like, oh, I don’t know, make it so we don’t just hand out driver’s licenses like they’re Halloween candy. Then we’d make roads safer for all types of vehicles. Bi5shop > > but no, that would inconvenience some people, so we just throw up our hands and say “don’t ride a motorcycle because we think it’s our right to be shitty drivers.” > [@Magiver](#): > > Seriously? You came into this thread to tell someone to quit? That’s you’re solution to helping someone achieve one of their goals in life. > > Not everybody wants to read about life’s experiences. All 3 of you make good points. Bi5h0p, I’m aware that I’m in greater danger on roadways when on a motorcycle versus my 4x4 jeep. My sister, an ER/Trauma nurse calls motorcyclists who ride without ATGATT “donorcyclists”. Some training courses in fact teach me to accept that I am a SMIDSY–"Sorry Mate I Didn’t See You There). Invisible to most drivers. When I drive, having read up on motorcycling, I do my damnedest to safely watch out for them because I know other drivers won’t. I accept that risk of invisibility, provided I learn and am comfortable in my skills enough to offset any risk, but I thank you for your warning. jz78817, like it or not we in the USA live in a largely suburban/rural society. Getting a driver’s license IS absurdly easily here in the states compared to other countries. We have people driving at absurdly drunk/drugged levels, on drug dosages that can level a horse/cow, in some cases. We so far don’t have much in the way of detecting anything other than alcohol. Bi5sh0p’s concerns are, if a tad doom-and-gloom, at least somewhat reasonable. They are not enough to keep me from trying, even if I have to find a way to change up my strategy for learning. Magiver, thank you, for both the kind words, but also the challenges to my way of thinking. I won’t rule out a larger displacement bike, but I don’t quite get why larger displacement may = easier to learn. Simply put, after this weekend, I’ve learned two major things. One, If I don’t get my stress (from all sources, including my job) under control, I’ll fail at this. That may mean a hiatus from learning to ride and enrolling in Yoga or some form of mindfulness meditation to calm the fuck down and stay that way, since stress is my enemy. Two, while useful for many, structured classes like the MSF courses just aren’t for me, so I have to find a way to get a bike to practice on safely until I’m confidant I can control it. That may mean paying someone to ride the bike to a deserted parking lot so I can practice once or twice a week (honestly wish I’d gotten the tow package on my Jeep now). Despite the risks, dangers, problems inherent in motorcycle riding, I don’t think I should give up on this. I don’t WANT to give up on this. But if one strategy for learning something fails, repeatedly, it may be time to sit back and consider a new way of thinking about learning how do to what I want to do. ---
**Author:** ![brovolone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e4f/32.png) [@brovolone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brovolone)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/102 "2015-09-28T13:34:10Z")
Be vigilant ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/103 "2015-09-28T16:09:45Z")
Jay, Practice: Learning on your own at first might indeed be best. It’s not like you could know in advance that MSF courses weren’t for you. You tried it, it didn’t work as well as you’d hope and now you’re trying alternatives. Is it possible with your permit to rent a motorcycle? Might be cheaper than buying one and you’d practice on a better bike. Motorcycling: What motivates you to learn to drive a motorcycle? What benefits do you expect? While I might be completely off, I get the impression that your motivation to learn to ride a motorcycle is linked to your perception that not doing it or giving up on it is chickenshit. If so, there may be better ways to serve that need than motorcycles. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/104 "2015-09-28T16:17:59Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Is it possible with your permit to rent a motorcycle? Might be cheaper than buying one and you’d practice on a better bike. obviously varies by area, but around me (Detroit metro) the only places I’ve found which rent out bikes are a couple of Harley dealerships. And they require that you’ve had your motorcycle endorsement on your license for at least a year. They don’t want you learning on bikes they plan on selling at the end of the year. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/105 "2015-09-28T16:54:19Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > At least I didn’t drop the bike, or crash, and this was literally my first time ever on a motorcycle. If it’s your first time ever on a bike, then you really ought to cut yourself some slack. As you’ve noticed, a motorcycle’s weight makes it handle very differently from a bicycle, and on top of that you’re trying to manage a throttle, clutch, and shifter. It can be a lot to take in for someone with zero hours of saddle time. If you’ve got your temp license, then you can practice on your own on neighborhood streets and empty parking lots, without the pressure of an instructor or an audience (stay away from busy thoroughfares for now); come back for the course after you’ve spent a few hours getting yourself familiar with the controls. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > But you and others keep pushing this “don’t get a 250cc displacement bike, get a 500-650cc bike”, and honestly I’m confused as to why. Better friction zones? Throttle more forgiving? Not much difference in weight? I think the expectation is that will grow to love the sport and very rapidly find that you want something bigger than a 250 - at which point it becomes a hassle to upgrade. But based on what you’ve written recently, I think I’d still recommend getting a well-used 250. “well-used” means you won’t be bummed out if you drop it while practicing parking lot maneuvers, and any damage you do to it won’t significantly decrease its resale value. “250” means you won’t struggle to pick it up if you drop it. Upgrading later isn’t that big a deal; you’ll only be out by the amount of sales tax you paid when you bought the 250 (e.g. $1200 bike= ~$72 sales tax). > [@JayRx1981](#): > > Expensive in the context of needing to buy a good quality helmet (probably priority #1), full fingered gloves, comfortable riding boots (mine were so thickin the soles, I couldn’t tell the difference between the foot rests and the gear shift/right-rear break pedal) and a vented cycle jacket on top of long pants, which can add anywhere from a couple hundred bucks to $2000 easily, on top of a $1000-$5000 investment for a bike (used to new) for the small displacement engines. Entry costs can certainly add up, but you can keep them down by getting used stuff - and you can recover most of that expense if you decide to get out of the sport. Example, you can get a good quality used jacket (like a top-name 3-season touring jacket in which the waterproofing has given up the ghost), maybe even a whole suit, for under $100 if you browse the listings in various motorcycle discussion forums. If you’re willing, you can take on used boots and gloves as well. A decent quality helmet that meets applicable standards can be had for under $200. Add in a beat-up Ninja250 for ~1400, and you should be able to get started for less than $2000 total. Your running expenses will be minimal for a beater Ninja250, and so will your insurance (especially if you skip the collision coverage and just get liability). ---
**Author:** ![HipGnosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/76d3ee/32.png) [@HipGnosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HipGnosis)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2015, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/106 "2015-09-28T23:45:28Z")
The friction zone is a little different on all bikes and it can be adjusted. The bike you rode wasn’t adjusted correctly. You should have spent a few minutes with the bike idling as you find and get familiar with the friction zone. If it’s not in the printed material you got from the class, you should write down all the exercises the class did so you can practice them when you get your bike. I’ve been riding 40 years and I still practice emergency swerves and stops. Some recommend a bigger bike because 1) a bigger engine bike is more forgiving when starting from a stop - a small engine is easier to kill. 2) a bigger weight bike is more stable in winds. 3) a bigger engine bike is better on the highway - a 250 will be at or near full throttle if you’re going into any wind. FYI, I do not recommend a bigger bike. Wet roads aren’t that bad - unless your tires are old. The worse part of riding in rain (if you have decent gear) is that car drives don’t even look for bikes. But… the painted lines, turn arrows etc. on roads are DISASTEROUS when wet. Different brands of helmets fit different shaped heads better - round or oblong/oval. Most of the on-line gear retailers have closeout or discount sections. You can get some really good gear at some really good prices. Start with MotorcycleGear and MotorcycleSuperStore. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/107 "2015-09-29T00:55:11Z")
Always wear a helmet. Always wear protective gear on your entire body. Do you know how they get gravel out of road rash? Trust me you don’t want to know. I know and I cringe when I see people wearing shorts while they ride. :eek: Always wear gloves Note the word always above. That bastard Murphy is just waiting for you to say, I’m just going around the block I don’t need to wear my \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/108 "2015-09-29T03:58:14Z")
> [@HipGnosis](#): > > The friction zone is a little different on all bikes and it can be adjusted. The bike you rode wasn’t adjusted correctly. > You should have spent a few minutes with the bike idling as you find and get familiar with the friction zone. While it’s possible the bike wasn’t adjusted correctly I rode a number of the bikes provided and they were all the same. The 250 didn’t have enough power for my liking. I had to rev it up to nudge it along in slow maneuvers and it was virtually impossible to hit any kind of sweat spot. It was like juggling cats on fire. > [@HipGnosis](#): > > If it’s not in the printed material you got from the class, you should write down all the exercises the class did so you can practice them when you get your bike. I’ve been riding 40 years and I still practice emergency swerves and stops. > Some recommend a bigger bike because 1) a bigger engine bike is more forgiving when starting from a stop - a small engine is easier to kill. 2) a bigger weight bike is more stable in winds. 3) a bigger engine bike is better on the highway - a 250 will be at or near full throttle if you’re going into any wind. FYI, I do not recommend a bigger bike. > Wet roads aren’t that bad - unless your tires are old. The worse part of riding in rain (if you have decent gear) is that car drives don’t even look for bikes. But… the painted lines, turn arrows etc. on roads are DISASTEROUS when wet. > Different brands of helmets fit different shaped heads better - round or oblong/oval. > Most of the on-line gear retailers have closeout or discount sections. You can get some really good gear at some really good prices. Start with MotorcycleGear and MotorcycleSuperStore. I may not be expressing myself clearly. I consider my 650 a small bike at 450 lbs. It’s easy enough to pick up if it’s dropped. It’s a 10,000 rpm engine so you have to really open it up to get the hp out of it. That means it’s more docile at lower RPM’s versus a low revving V-twin of similar hp. But it still has enough hp to drag the bike forward without stalling. I would NOT drive the bike somewhere and ride it around. If you live in a suburban neighborhood then drive around there. If a car gets behind you pull over. I had a whole course laid out with hills and turns. When you can drive halfway up a hill, stop, and start up the hill consistently without stalling then it’s time to move out into the country to bump it up a notch. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/109 "2015-09-29T09:50:57Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Wear thick clothing. > I have scars through a quilted ski jacket. 🙂 Seconded. You would think that it would be obvious, but for gopod’s sake don’t wear shorts and a t-shirt while on the motorcycle. Even jeans aren’t enough. Get a good set of leathers. My idiot brother and (non-idiot) cousins wear leathers when riding, and they live in Florida. Source: two years as a nurse in an ER close to Daytona Beach, FL. I can’t tell you how much road rash – of various depths – I’ve treated. You don’t want to be the guy to lay down his bike while wearing shorts. Seriously. (ETA: I see that **Rick** ninja’d me on the shorts and road rash. Ah well, it’s worth saying twice.) ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2015, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/110 "2015-09-29T12:03:21Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Do you know how they get gravel out of road rash? Trust me you don’t want to know. I kinda want to know. > [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Source: two years as a nurse in an ER close to Daytona Beach, FL. I can’t tell you how much road rash – of various depths – I’ve treated. You don’t want to be the guy to lay down his bike while wearing shorts. Seriously. “Ask the former Dayton Beach, Florida, ER nurse” might make for a good thread. Also, I only found this one: [Redirecting...](https://www.facebook.com/roadrashband221) but you’d think there’d be so many more bands named Road Rash. And bars. And people. ---
**Author:** ![JayRx1981](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71e660/32.png) [@JayRx1981](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JayRx1981)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/111 "2015-09-30T15:42:57Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > Jay, > > Practice: > Learning on your own at first might indeed be best. It’s not like you could know in advance that MSF courses weren’t for you. You tried it, it didn’t work as well as you’d hope and now you’re trying alternatives. > > Is it possible with your permit to rent a motorcycle? Might be cheaper than buying one and you’d practice on a better bike. Best bet is to buy a used bike off craiglist or from a dealer and practice as much as I can. I don’t live in an area with huge, largely empty parking lots (except at night when my temp says I can’t ride). I have an friend who has offered to ride whatever bike I buy to a safe parking lot so I can practice, so I might just end up doing that and rewarding him with extra cash or something in appreciation. > [@](#): > > Motorcycling: > What motivates you to learn to drive a motorcycle? What benefits do you expect? > > While I might be completely off, I get the impression that your motivation to learn to ride a motorcycle is linked to your perception that not doing it or giving up on it is chickenshit. If so, there may be better ways to serve that need than motorcycles. As you know, I work an 80 hour 7 day on week. I NEED something to get me out of the house in my week off that challenges different parts of my brain. I also want to meet people. It’s hard as hell to do that working 7 night shifts in a row. Further, I’ve been the clutz most of my life. I’d like to learn/master something that many people would not expect of me. And lastly, but not leastly, I’m gay, a guy, and grew up viewing male bike riders as sexy. I don’t want to be a wanna be groupie. I want equally to enjoy the pursuit of someone I may eventually find to be a mate (bonus if they’ve also got nerdy/geeky tendencies). > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > If it’s your first time ever on a bike, then you really ought to cut yourself some slack. As you’ve noticed, a motorcycle’s weight makes it handle very differently from a bicycle, and on top of that you’re trying to manage a throttle, clutch, and shifter. It can be a lot to take in for someone with zero hours of saddle time. If you’ve got your temp license, then you can practice on your own on neighborhood streets and empty parking lots, without the pressure of an instructor or an audience (stay away from busy thoroughfares for now); come back for the course after you’ve spent a few hours getting yourself familiar with the controls. > > I think the expectation is that will grow to love the sport and very rapidly find that you want something bigger than a 250 - at which point it becomes a hassle to upgrade. But based on what you’ve written recently, I think I’d still recommend getting a well-used 250. “well-used” means you won’t be bummed out if you drop it while practicing parking lot maneuvers, and any damage you do to it won’t significantly decrease its resale value. “250” means you won’t struggle to pick it up if you drop it. Upgrading later isn’t that big a deal; you’ll only be out by the amount of sales tax you paid when you bought the 250 (e.g. $1200 bike= ~$72 sales tax). > > Entry costs can certainly add up, but you can keep them down by getting used stuff - and you can recover most of that expense if you decide to get out of the sport. Example, you can get a good quality used jacket (like a top-name 3-season touring jacket in which the waterproofing has given up the ghost), maybe even a whole suit, for under $100 if you browse the listings in various motorcycle discussion forums. If you’re willing, you can take on used boots and gloves as well. A decent quality helmet that meets applicable standards can be had for under $200. Add in a beat-up Ninja250 for ~1400, and you should be able to get started for less than $2000 total. Your running expenses will be minimal for a beater Ninja250, and so will your insurance (especially if you skip the collision coverage and just get liability). I’m trying to not be too hard on myself, honestly. I know I have a long way to go. I’m ok with with that. I just wish there were an easier way to learn with the time I need to develop the needed skills than 20 minutes of this, then 20 minutes of that, then 20 minutes of that, the break, then brand new exercises, which seems the MSF MO. > [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Seconded. > > You would think that it would be obvious, but for gopod’s sake don’t wear shorts and a t-shirt while on the motorcycle. Even jeans aren’t enough. Get a good set of leathers. My idiot brother and (non-idiot) cousins wear leathers when riding, and they live in Florida. > > Source: two years as a nurse in an ER close to Daytona Beach, FL. I can’t tell you how much road rash – of various depths – I’ve treated. You don’t want to be the guy to lay down his bike while wearing shorts. Seriously. > > (ETA: I see that **Rick** ninja’d me on the shorts and road rash. Ah well, it’s worth saying twice.) Oh trust me, the only gear I wanted to dump at practice were the boots. I wear bare-foot vibram five-fingers most of the time. I’m used to feeling subtle differences in how things feel under my feet. That I couldn’t even use running shoes (didn’t cover the ankles, but my jeans did) in first gear to get a feel for the bike pedals (wearing 3/4" thick biker boots) was…frustrating. Otherwise, ATGATT is a motto I intend to live by. > [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > I kinda want to know. Unless you have a strong stomach, you may want to rethink that. All of the gear worn gives a minimum of protections. You can still rip flesh off even in the correct gear, from all I’ve read. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/112 "2015-09-30T16:52:18Z")
Please understand before reading the following that my goal here is to offer another take on biking as a means to the ends you pursue. Being unsure that a particular means should be used is not at all the same as thinking that the ends it’s supposed to serve should not be fulfilled. Perhaps you get this in your job: People who very much insist on one particular remedy because they want to solve an important problem they have. They become very much attached to using that remedy because they equate using that remedy with solving their problem. In those cases, it would be your job or the MD’s job to challenge them if that remedy has significant risks and may not be that effective, especially if other remedies may be more effective while having less side effects. My reply is in the same spirit. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > I NEED something to get me out of the house in my week off that challenges different parts of my brain. A completely understandable end. Everyone needs to switch it up once in a while. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > I also want to meet people. Also a worthy end which can be difficult to achieve in some circumstances. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > Further, I’ve been the clutz most of my life. I’d like to learn/master something that many people would not expect of me. There are 3 aspects here: 1. un-clutzing yourself. 2. proving something to other people. 3. proving something to yourself. 1 can definitely be beneficial. However, if you’ve been a clutz most of your life, bike riding is too much too fast. To make an analogy: It’s like taking someone who hasn’t played video games much in their life and having them play Stalker or a flight simulator. Or taking someone who hasn’t swum much and making them dive in rough seas. It’s an ill-fitting way to grow because it’s too much. You seem to have a desire to achieve a lot of personal growth which is great. However, this must be done gradually and started small & simple. Once you’ve mastered that, you step it up one notch. It’s a lesson I’ve learned by making that mistake a few times before it sunk in. 1. proving something to other people: Who? People in your past? People in your future? 2. proving something to yourself: This can be achieved gradually. If you take on too much too fast and fail, it can have the opposite psychological effect. Also, these kinds of things are a lot like having sex; It’s easy to let yourself think that once that dramatic step has been achieved, you’ll level up and you will be dramatically different. But that’s not really what happens. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > I’m gay, a guy, and grew up viewing male bike riders as sexy. I don’t want to be a wanna be groupie. I’m straight, a guy, and grew up viewing female nurses as sexy. Finding them sexy and asking a would-be mate to dress up as one instead of being one doesn’t make me a groupie. You can do as many Village People-themed roleplays as you want without being a wanna-be groupie. I may of course be completely off here, especially as this is a text-only medium. Would it be accurate to say that you do not conceive as yourself as sexually desirable and would like to change that? > [@JayRx1981](#): > > I may eventually find to be a mate (bonus if they’ve also got nerdy/geeky tendencies). Perhaps it’s prejudice\* on my part but I don’t see nerdy/geeky gay men being plentiful in Ohio biker circles. You seem to have a good initial idea of what ends biking could serve. A lot of people who want to undertake such activities have no self-awareness or meta-cognitions. Perhaps if you spend some more time analyzing the ends you wish to achieve and formulating them clearly, you could start a thread and get suggestions on the different means available to achieve those ends. A few such suggestions come to my mind right now but I’d rather reserve them for that future thread. - Prejudice against Ohio and biker circles, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/113 "2015-10-01T01:26:52Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Best bet is to buy a used bike off craiglist or from a dealer and practice as much as I can. I don’t live in an area with huge, largely empty parking lots (except at night when my temp says I can’t ride). I have an friend who has offered to ride whatever bike I buy to a safe parking lot so I can practice, so I might just end up doing that and rewarding him with extra cash or something in appreciation. Parking lots are not the place to learn. Learn in a quiet residential area. You need hills to practice on. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > As you know, I work an 80 hour 7 day on week. I NEED something to get me out of the house in my week off that challenges different parts of my brain. I also want to meet people. It’s hard as hell to do that working 7 night shifts in a row. Further, I’ve been the clutz most of my life. I’d like to learn/master something that many people would not expect of me. And lastly, but not leastly, I’m gay, a guy, and grew up viewing male bike riders as sexy. I don’t want to be a wanna be groupie. I want equally to enjoy the pursuit of someone I may eventually find to be a mate (bonus if they’ve also got nerdy/geeky tendencies). A motorcycle is a great diversion to and from work. I literally take the road less traveled so I can go over the highway and smile at rush hour traffic. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > I’m trying to not be too hard on myself, honestly. I know I have a long way to go. I’m ok with with that. I just wish there were an easier way to learn with the time I need to develop the needed skills than 20 minutes of this, then 20 minutes of that, then 20 minutes of that, the break, then brand new exercises, which seems the MSF MO. It’s not rocket science and it’s not Mt Everest. If you think this a really hard task then I’m guessing it’s going to be a really hard task. If you think you’re a clutz that’s not helpful. Unskilled does not make you a clutz. I can fly a plane and ride a motorcycle but I can’t dance and couldn’t hit a baseball if it was propped up T-ball style. I could learn to dance if I wanted to and I’ll just blame baseball on bifocals. Every skill has it’s hills to overcome. Don’t look at them as mountains. Riding is suppose to be fun and so is the learning part. I was frustrated as hell when I first started out but I still enjoyed it. > [@JayRx1981](#): > > Oh trust me, the only gear I wanted to dump at practice were the boots. I wear bare-foot vibram five-fingers most of the time. I’m used to feeling subtle differences in how things feel under my feet. That I couldn’t even use running shoes (didn’t cover the ankles, but my jeans did) in first gear to get a feel for the bike pedals (wearing 3/4" thick biker boots) was…frustrating. Otherwise, ATGATT is a motto I intend to live by. I had an awful time with the shifter lever. The trick for me was to swing my foot out and THEN under the shifter. I do that automatically now. My boots are 3/4" soles at the toe line. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016/114 "2015-10-01T02:42:46Z")
Some suggestions for over coming your clutziness Find an empty area alley, parking lot the longer the better. Practice doing smooth starts. Gas let the clutch out feet off the ground. Don’t worry about feet on the pegs at this point. Then clutch in and stop. Don’t worry about both brakes use one or the other. Lather rinse repeat until it become second nature. If it takes you an hour or two of practice it’s no big deal. Get used to putting your left down first. Once you have getting started down you can work on putting your feet on the peg and using both brakes. Just keep practicing till you feel confident then take the class again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-do-you-have-for-a-new-motorcycle-rider/729016.md?page=5)