# What advice would you for a guy who hasn't been able to find a job for the past year? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2016, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221 "2016-12-20T14:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/21 "2016-12-21T12:21:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Maybe YOU don’t think less of them, but a lot of other people sure do. > > One of the most soul-crushing things I endure in retail is being a cashier - hearing customers go on and on about the leeches and parasites that are on things like food stamps, about how terrible they are and they’re all criminals and frauds… and you yourself are on food stamps. Or hearing them tell their kid, who is standing in line with them, that anyone who works retail is an utter failure and they won’t allow THEIR child to work with trash like that. And so on. > > Then there are the people who treat retail workers as verbal punching bags. > > It can be pretty horrible. My in-laws look down in disdain on me because _gasp_ I WORK FOR A SUPERMARKET CHAIN GOD HEAVEN FORBID WHAT WILL THE NEIGHBORS THINK??? As I sweetly explained to them, “You know, I’m a second generation American. All my grandparents came here not speaking English and doing whatever was necessary to stay alive. My maternal grandparents were cooks. My paternal grandparents were laborers. My parents did whatever they could to help their families. They didn’t sit on their asses in their lace-curtained houses waiting to be rescued by somebody who could provide them with the life they’d become accustomed to.” (said with a smarmy smile) Yeah, you just don’t go there with me. I’ve actually been more smarmy and ruder IRL. The fact that it goes over a few of their heads (because, really, god forbid they expose themselves to lives other than their bubbles) makes my blood boil. And yes, I have a master’s degree. I taught for a few years. Working in corporate food service is, surprisingly, more stable than applying to the scant number of teaching jobs in one’s discipline. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/22 "2016-12-21T13:52:57Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > He could also look into some low-hanging fruit professional qualifications. A PMP (Project Management) is fairly easy to get and can open some doors. A larger, but still viable, risk would be getting a mid-career masters degree. Government student loans are available for grad students, and if he TAs he may get some tuition help. Being a student or recent grad also opens doors, if you are smart about it. A PMP requires 2000 hours of experience to get - in project management or doing project management type things. He’d have to get the job first and work it for a year or more before getting the PMP. But I think the suggestion is fundamentally sound. I’d go for something more ITIL myself - knowledge management for instance, or release management or change management. Less competition for the jobs. Business Analyst is another one. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/23 "2016-12-21T13:58:16Z")
The other advice I’d give him is to start being honest with people - they are the source of jobs. They’ll introduce him to opportunities he never imagined existed - some with really low barriers to entry. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/24 "2016-12-21T14:07:53Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Maybe YOU don’t think less of them, but a lot of other people sure do. Well, then, some people are big assholes. All work is honorable work. If it didn’t have to be done, they wouldn’t pay you to do it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/25 "2016-12-21T15:28:51Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > A PMP requires 2000 hours of experience to get - in project management or doing project management type things. He’d have to get the job first and work it for a year or more before getting the PMP. > > But I think the suggestion is fundamentally sound. I’d go for something more ITIL myself - knowledge management for instance, or release management or change management. Less competition for the jobs. Business Analyst is another one. Business analyst usually requires a certain amount of business knowledge and experience though; as a BA who’s interviewed quite a few other ones, I’d think that his experience in doing support-ish type stuff wouldn’t play well. I do think that the more administrative type positions like change control, release management or the like would be a better fit. The other thing that came to mind would be to get some sort of agile/scrum certification and become a scrum master or some other sort of development-related position that’s not really technical. The advantage there is that the various agile methodologies aren’t that old, so the lack of experience might not be quite the handicap that it would in other areas. ---
**Author:** ![harmonicamoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/65b543/32.png) [@harmonicamoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/harmonicamoon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/26 "2016-12-21T15:29:28Z")
The only advice I have for the guy is…Become acquainted with hunger. Experience it! Then he will find solutions. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/27 "2016-12-21T15:31:14Z")
I’m inclined to think what’s crushing your soul and motivation is the lying. I think at your age, with your work history, and to be actively, creatively, comfortably and grossly misrepresenting your circumstances warrants a real hard look at yourself. And, I’m gonna say maybe it’s time to stop trying to squeeze your square self into a round hole. Maybe you’re just not a, ‘work a 20yr career’, kinda person. All you need do is own that. You’re an adult now and the only person’s opinion who really matters is yours. It’s YOUR opinion of yourself that’s making you lie, no one else’s, that’s just projection on your part, I think. So embrace who you actually are, and set about finding another way. Get two part time jobs. Deliver pizza, night watchmen, whatever is out there, don’t hesitate to try them all out! Start looking at your future as a grand experiment/adventure, ( which will require some of that creativity you are currently misusing!) And start believing something will fall together for you. The more situations you expose yourself to, the likelier you may stumble onto/into something awesome. It is not unheard of for someone to put their hand to something new, only to be surprised to discover that they truly enjoy it or shocked at how well suited, it actually is for them. These are unfailingly happy and enthusiastic people, in my experience. Change your view of success, it’s dragging you down. Aim for happiness, let go of your ego and be who you are! (This is just my opinion!) I wish you great Good Luck, and better days in the New Year! ---
**Author:** ![sandra\_nz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@sandra\_nz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sandra_nz)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/28 "2016-12-21T15:35:42Z")
Two years without work? Hell, I went three months and then took on a crappily paid work-from-home self-employed dictation job. Then I joined a temp agency, started with rubbish single-day office work assignments, went in to everyone single one with an “I’ll do anything” attitude, got longer and longer assignments because my feedback was positive, eventually getting a twelve month assignment at the company I have now worked in as a permanent employee for six years. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hey\_Hey\_Paula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_Hey_Paula)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/29 "2016-12-21T15:58:01Z")
> [@sandra\_nz](#): > > Two years without work? Hell, I went three months and then took on a crappily paid work-from-home self-employed dictation job. Then I joined a temp agency, started with rubbish single-day office work assignments, went in to everyone single one with an “I’ll do anything” attitude, got longer and longer assignments because my feedback was positive, eventually getting a twelve month assignment at the company I have now worked in as a permanent employee for six years. Yes! Why the hell isn’t this guy temping? According to his description of his typical day, he searches a few job websites, then goofs off on Twitter, maybe does a bit of housework (but he’s bad at it and does’t like it, poor baby). With a humanities degree, and half an ounce of ambition, he could have been temping, which means bringing in money, trying out different kinds of work, and making valuable networking contacts. I was laid off in 1999, and temped for three years (along with doing union background actor work). In those three years, I learned that I am really good at being a legal secretary. Temping gave me those specific legal secretary skills (I already had regular secretarial skills) and I got paid while I learned on the job. Temping finally got me the two week spot that turned into a permanent job, which i retired from after twelve years. But apparently Mr. I’m An IT Guy expects a plum job to just drop out of the internet into his lap. And I feel bad for his wife. I get the feeling that she works all day and still has to do the lion’s share of the housework and child care. It can’t be fun to come home to a husband who’s goofed off all day, who then whines that wife has it better because she gets to leave the house to go to work. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/30 "2016-12-21T16:04:54Z")
The Peace Corps will take applicants your age. B. Traven said it well: “Begging for food is less humiliating than begging for a job.” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/31 "2016-12-21T16:16:12Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Business analyst usually requires a certain amount of business knowledge and experience though; as a BA who’s interviewed quite a few other ones, I’d think that his experience in doing support-ish type stuff wouldn’t play well. > > I do think that the more administrative type positions like change control, release management or the like would be a better fit. > > The other thing that came to mind would be to get some sort of agile/scrum certification and become a scrum master or some other sort of development-related position that’s not really technical. The advantage there is that the various agile methodologies aren’t that old, so the lack of experience might not be quite the handicap that it would in other areas. I’ve worked with of BAs without a lot of experience. Especially on the analysis end of BA work - instead of the interview end. At its heart, its a research and information consolidation job - one of the things a liberal arts degree does teach you to do. On the other hand, none of my clients want a SCRUM master without three years of experience. My husband has been doing Agile work for over a decade - it isn’t that new (the Agile Manifesto came out in 2001), and at least here in the Twin Cities (I’d imagine in Silicon Valley as well), you look for someone with a few years experience. (My own credentials, I have a PMP and a CSM - and I’ve done most of the work for a CBAP - and have done all three jobs. Currently I place and manage IT contractors - mostly developers, but we have a few BAs) ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/32 "2016-12-21T18:36:31Z")
> [@bump](#): > > But how to go about it? That’s really the question. :snip: Does he take a step back and start entry level in some other career? Some other option? I have had made radical career changes twice in my life - once of my own accord and once due to downsizing. I went from Assistant Manager at a big box retailer to an entry level bank teller, then from banking VP to line manger at the company I currently work for. Each time the initial step back has lead to bigger and better things. I don’t have a degree of any kind, I was ruled out of some jobs because they insisted on one. The banking layoff happened when I was in my mid-forties, I’m sure I lost out on some jobs because I was older than other candidates. In the end what it took was honest self assessment - what are my marketable strengths/skills, what were specific examples of when I used them to benefit a company, what do I want from a job (standard hours or flexible, money or experience, what type of work life balance, how much travel, etc.) - and hard work finding opportunities that best suited as much of that as possible _in any industry_. Take what could be perceived as weaknesses and sell them as benefits (“No sir/ma’am, I do not have a college degree. What I do have is real world experience working with XXXXX and here is how that will translate into an immediate benefit to your company…”). In the interim I did odd jobs to bring in money. I worked remodeling homes with a friend, learned to run low voltage wiring and helped install home alarm systems for another small company, both on an as needed basis. It was hard and it took a long time but I have a family to support and to accomplish that I will do whatever proves necessary that does not violate my ethics and morals. One last point - I never saw myself as a retailer or a banker or any other industry related descriptor. I am a manager of people, processes and projects. I am a hard working, quick learning problem solver. The guy in the article seems to identify himself as an IT person. He shouldn’t, it’s far too limiting. There is not a lot of detail in the article, but he should view himself as, at minimum, a customer service champion and an experienced problem solver. Those are portable, marketable skills. Just “IT” is not. The more limited your view of what you do, the more opportunities you blind yourself to. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/33 "2016-12-21T19:30:46Z")
I feel so, so badly for this guy’s wife. He seems to think he is looking for the same kind of job as his former jobs, all the while acknowledging his former jobs didn’t do enough to move him up the ladder, expose him to learning opportunities, etc. I think all of the OP’s advice is on target for this guy. The other suggestion I would add is to consider strategically volunteering somewhere in a professional capacity. I know he should avoid the trap of doing thankless unpaid work … but with some thought, he could seek out some volunteer opportunities that could provide him with new or enhanced skill sets, it’s something on a resume, and if you’re IN a working environment, you will hear about openings for actual jobs (and possibly meet the people who are hiring for those positions). Not every volunteer position is going to fulfill these requirements, which is why he would need to be selective and intentional with it. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/34 "2016-12-21T20:38:18Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > He seems to think he is looking for the same kind of job as his former jobs, all the while acknowledging his former jobs didn’t do enough to move him up the ladder, expose him to learning opportunities, etc. I think he’s stuck in a mental rut thinking that “I’m an IT guy in Silicon Valley” and tying too much of his self-worth to that particular identity, and then having crushing disappointment and shame when the world keeps hammering home that “no, you’re not an IT guy in Silicon Valley, you’re a guy who once had a few IT jobs in Silicon Valley.” It probably sounds hideously cruel, but this guy’s self-conception of being an IT guy reminds me a whole lot of those deluded, off-key “singers” on American Idol’s early rounds who get angry when the judges tell them they can’t actually sing, no matter how much they may think they can. He really needs to realize that and map out a plan to take advantage of what he’s actually good at and qualified for, without necessarily having that mental chip on his shoulder about being an IT guy in Silicon Valley. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/35 "2016-12-21T20:50:16Z")
He mentioned spending a lot of time on the internet. I wonder if he has ever reached out to a forum like this one and tried to follow any of the advice he got. The article paints him in a poor light because it doesn’t mention what he has done besides sending out his resumes and feeling bad about himself. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221/36 "2016-12-21T21:03:14Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It probably sounds hideously cruel, but this guy’s self-conception of being an IT guy reminds me a whole lot of those deluded, off-key “singers” on American Idol’s early rounds who get angry when the judges tell them they can’t actually sing, no matter how much they may think they can. That’s a good analogy. Person after person would stand in front of the judges on American Idol and say being a singer was the only thing they ever wanted in life, and then it would turn out they couldn’t sing. And every time it happened, I’d think… you’ve wanted to be a singer your whole life **but you never took lessons**? You never once spent a few bucks on a month’s worth of sessions with a voice coach? Any number of hapless buffoons would have been twice as good (if not good enough, but still, they would ahve sounded okay instead of embarrassing) with just four or five lessons. How on earth can a record producer even think twice about employing you to sing if you have not once thought to take a lesson in how to sing? It was essentially the same as if someone said their life’s ambition was to be a golfer, but they never bothered to practice golf. Your values aren’t what you say they are. Talk is cheap. Your values are where you expend your resources. If you don’t spend any time trying to learn how to sing, you don’t really want to be a singer. Simon Cowell wasn’t being cruel when he told people “You can’t sing.” He was being kind. He was trying to get them to stop wasting their time and either pursue something else or get serious about singing. You aren’t being cruel, either. I honestly, truly pity anyone who struggles to find work 'cause it’s HORRIBLE. But man, you wonder if this guy’s article wasn’t picked just to enrage people. He is not acting like a man who wants to find work. He is acting like a man who wants it to be 1999 again. He had an easy life in 1999 when there was a tech bubble and money was freely available. THAT’s what he wants. If he truly just wanted to work and earn money, he would be doing different things to work and earn money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-advice-would-you-for-a-guy-who-hasnt-been-able-to-find-a-job-for-the-past-year/775221.md?page=1)