# What am I, a maid? (tame and lame) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2005, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956 "2005-03-04T20:15:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/21 "2005-03-05T16:16:46Z")
I read the OP and the first thing that I thought of (showing my age here) was and old Maxwell house coffee commercial from the early sixties. It had a faceless male announcer (you could only see his hands) who showed his wife how to make a cup of coffee. The last shot of the commercial showed the wife’s face looking submissive and grateful for the instructions as the man’s voice said, “Be a good little Maxwell House wife and I might just keep you around”. Even at the innocent age of a lad of six I was amazed by the sheer balls of the commercial. And **sinjin** , if my daughters do as well as you I will be very proud of them. ---
**Author:** ![Idlewild](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8491ac/32.png) [@Idlewild](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idlewild)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/22 "2005-03-05T18:48:35Z")
My husband by no means does an equal amount of housework to me. You see, he works from home, and works about 3/4 time, not full time. He does about 80% of the housework in addition to working a 30 hour week. I don’t feel overly guilty about it because he also gets to take his laptop and go work in a coffee shop or otherwise flex his hours around pretty much at will. This arrangement works for both of us beautifully. Working a corporate 9-5 job was just driving him crazy. I, on the other hand, like the relative security that comes with being a wage slave at the loss of the flexibility he has. I like to think we’re doing our little bit to move choices along for everyone. If and when kids enter the picture, it’s pretty clear that he’s more interested in being the nurturer/caregiver so that’s all good too. We’ll sort out how that works financially when the time comes. But right now the hit we took in income from his downshifting is more than made up for by the huge quality of life increase for both of us that having one person who can devote themselves more to household stuff brought. So far our families have been very supportive - my family never modeled traditional gender roles anyway and his father seems to be happy as long as he can talk in depth about our financial situation with us, which bugs me but is fine by my husband. There’s definitely been a _lot_ more pressure for my husband to fill the wage-earner role than there has for me to fill the housekeeper role. I guess it’s progress but I’d like to think we can get past that too. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/23 "2005-03-06T18:36:52Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > Cite? > > I don’t want to disparage the work a SAHM does, but the whole “three full-time jobs” makes me think that somebody took 24 hours a day, divided by the standard 8 hour workday, and came up with three “full-time jobs”. Again, I don’t think that SAHM moms are loafing; it’s real work, and a lot more than 40 hours a week. I’m just suspicious of the convenience of the numbers. How are the numbers “convenient?” I’m not saying that to be a jackass - I’m not quite sure what you mean. As for a cite, I wasn’t able to find an online version of the article I read, which was in print; however, I was able to find several links to articles on [Salary.com](http://Salary.com) and a few other sources indicating that the value SAHMs’ work equals easily $90,000 per year were they do provide the same services to an actual business. Here you go: [link](http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/P46800.asp) [another link](http://aolsvc.salary.aol.com/careersandwork/salary/articles/atcl_careeradvice.asp?atc=358) Sorry I wasn’t able to provide better backup for the assertion. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/24 "2005-03-06T19:19:48Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > How are the numbers “convenient?” I’m not saying that to be a jackass - I’m not quite sure what you mean. > > As for a cite, I wasn’t able to find an online version of the article I read, which was in print; however, I was able to find several links to articles on [Salary.com](http://Salary.com) and a few other sources indicating that the value SAHMs’ work equals easily $90,000 per year were they do provide the same services to an actual business. > > Here you go: > > [link](http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/P46800.asp) > [another link](http://aolsvc.salary.aol.com/careersandwork/salary/articles/atcl_careeradvice.asp?atc=358) The first link actually says > [@](#): > > Unfortunately, the statistics are codswallop. > > The economic value of a stay-at-home spouse is closer to $30,000 a year. Our society doesn’t place a high dollar value on a homemaker’s work, and those who choose to stay home do so at their own economic peril. and the second link says > [@](#): > > Based on a 90-hour work week, [Salary.com](http://Salary.com) has estimated that a fair wage for the typical stay-at-home mom would be $88,276 for executing all of her daily tasks. Factor in overtime, and the appropriate salary leaps to $112,797. and then goes on to say how that figure was calculated. It takes a number of jobs, estimates were made of the times spent on each job’s tasks and how much time was spent on each within the 90 hour model and then were multiplied by hourly wages for each of the jobs. Sounds good, except for one thing. SAHM’s don’t have the necessary education and experience to actually be paid those wages in all of those jobs. The average SAHM mom could never earn the CEO salary of over $500,000 a year used in that estimate, nor does she need the skills that would command such a salary to run her household. And the one who could doesn’t _also_ have the plumbing skills to earn $27,609 as a plumber ( and most likely isn’t doing much work around the house at all). Do licensed practical nurses gain nothing from their education? And in reality, should the services of a SAHM need to be replaced (due to disabilty, death or divorce) no one is going to pay a hairstylist to come in for two hours a week to style hair, call an LPN whenever there is a sick child, hire an accountant for an hour a week to take care of the finances, etc. Those tasks will either be performed by someone else in the family or someone will be hired at much less than $90,000 a year to fill in. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/25 "2005-03-07T15:59:18Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > The first link actually says > and the second link says and then goes on to say how that figure was calculated. It takes a number of jobs, estimates were made of the times spent on each job’s tasks and how much time was spent on each within the 90 hour model and then were multiplied by hourly wages for each of the jobs. Sounds good, except for one thing. SAHM’s don’t have the necessary education and experience to actually be paid those wages in all of those jobs. The average SAHM mom could never earn the CEO salary of over $500,000 a year used in that estimate, nor does she need the skills that would command such a salary to run her household. And the one who could doesn’t _also_ have the plumbing skills to earn $27,609 as a plumber ( and most likely isn’t doing much work around the house at all). Do licensed practical nurses gain nothing from their education? And in reality, should the services of a SAHM need to be replaced (due to disabilty, death or divorce) no one is going to pay a hairstylist to come in for two hours a week to style hair, call an LPN whenever there is a sick child, hire an accountant for an hour a week to take care of the finances, etc. Those tasks will either be performed by someone else in the family or someone will be hired at much less than $90,000 a year to fill in. You’ve made your point quite well - I was wrong about the 120 hours. Jeez - my original purpose was just to vent about my dad, not necessarily discuss the philosophies and education of stay-at-home-moms. Still, I suppose I shouldn’t make claims, even in tangential comments, that I can’t support. I’m still looking frantically for that study I read stating the 120 hour figure very specifically, but if I can’t produce, it’s as good as if that study had never existed. Anyway, that comment seemed to get several people’s backs up - sorry if I offended. I only meant to bitch about the one particular topic. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/26 "2005-03-07T20:04:20Z")
I don’t think the issue is whether or not the study exists, but rather or not the study is a big steaming load of horseshit. Frankly, I lean toward the “steaming load of horseshit” camp, because I don’t believe for a second that SAHMs work every single minute they’re awake. No matter how many studies you produce, it still seems incredibly unlikely that a SAHM doesnt’ spend at least part of her day showering, eating, watching TV, having sex, playing with her kids, or any of the other mundane stuff that doesn’t get counted as work when all the people who aren’t SAHPs do it. That’s the crux of the issue, really, how you define work, and whether that definition is consistent from group to group. ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/27 "2005-03-07T21:22:40Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I don’t think the issue is whether or not the study exists, but rather or not the study is a big steaming load of horseshit. Frankly, I lean toward the “steaming load of horseshit” camp, because I don’t believe for a second that SAHMs work every single minute they’re awake. No matter how many studies you produce, it still seems incredibly unlikely that a SAHM doesnt’ spend at least part of her day showering, eating, watching TV, having sex, playing with her kids, or any of the other mundane stuff that doesn’t get counted as work when all the people who aren’t SAHPs do it. That’s the crux of the issue, really, how you define work, and whether that definition is consistent from group to group. That’s a fair assessment. Still, I think you could say the same thing about people working out of the home, too. Not all their time is spent actively working - a lot of it can be spent on bathroom breaks, lunch, Web surfing, commuting, etc. When I worked in an office, there were a lot of employees who spent the bulk of their time gossiping and not really doing anything at all but taking up space and running their mouths. When I started my business, while I do allow myself intermittent breaks (like this one), I found I spent a lot more time actively working and a heck of a lot less time chatting and surfing. So maybe that study is assuming too much work of _both_ groups. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/28 "2005-03-07T21:28:47Z")
Men’s work, women’s work, I never heard the work complain who does it. My family is stil amazed that my boyfriend does housework, he cooks, helps me clean. He doesn’t help me do the laundry, but that’s because I’ve vetoed it. I believe in the “quick and dirty” way of laundry, i.e., get it done and clean without damaging anything. He seems to think it should take hours and be done with extreme care and meticulousness. ---
**Author:** ![Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4da419/32.png) [@Gala\_Matrix\_Fire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gala_Matrix_Fire)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/29 "2005-03-07T21:31:27Z")
I just want to chime in and say that if I were a breadwinner paying professionals to look after my house and children, whether I paid $30,000 or $90,000 a year, they would be doing things _my way_. Stay-at-home parents, on the other hand, do things their own way and are accountable to nobody. I think the kind of children we see on Nanny 911 are a large part of the reason a lot of people don’t respect SAHPs. If you’re entire freaking job is to rear your children, do it right! No disrespect intended to anybody on these boards. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/30 "2005-03-07T22:46:04Z")
> [@Rhiannon8404](#): > > I feel your pain. My MIL is the same way. She thinks it’s the wife’s job to take care of her husband, sons, etc. I was at their house for dinner one night right after we got engaged. My future-husband had just gotton a job where he had to wear dress shirts and a tie. MIL had been washing and ironing his shirts despite the fact that he was 22. > > She looked at me and said, “Well, you’ll have to learn to do the laundry and iron dress shirts once you’re married.” I looked her directly in the eye and said, “I’ve been doing my own laundry since I was 13 and if Gary wants clean dress shirts for work, he can wash and iron them himself.” My husband has to wear a dress shirt for work a couple of days a week, and I don’t even bother washing and ironing them. I **hate** ironing. I take them to the cleaners, and for a buck each, I get them back cleaned and pressed and lightly starched, just the way he likes them. Hubby sweats a lot and gets terrible ring-around-the-collar that I just can’t get out. When my MIL found out I was taking his shirts to the cleaners rather than washing and ironing them myself, she never missed an opportunity to needle me about it, especially in front of my own mother. Her favorite was to mention how she guessed I thought we were “rich” since I paid someone else to wash his shirts. :rolleyes: Bitch. She would also run her finger along the edges of the furniture and doorframes and things like that, trying (but not too hard) to be unobtrusive to check for dust. As for the OP, ironing _UNDERWEAR_?!? Are you kidding me? Who the hell bothers to iron underwear? ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2005, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/31 "2005-03-07T23:09:58Z")
Where do you all count things like lawn care, snow shoveling, flower planting, garbage removing, and household repairs like unclogging the sink, painting something, moving furniture, and that stuff my mom would consider dadsix’s job, yet not housework. Does that count in when you’re saying that the men don’t do housework, and the women are doing all that stuff too? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/32 "2005-03-08T00:58:54Z")
Well, I do all of the above–why wouldn’t it count as housework? My husband is better at ironing than I am, but he has never cleaned a toilet. I, however, have routinely done things considered the “man’s job”-like the lawn mowing and fixing small appliances/refinishing furniture/painting fences and walls etc. I think that the dividing of housework it getting better, but is still not equal. By that I don’t mean that each partner should do exactly half. I mean that if some chore isn’t done–the unspoken expectation should not be that the woman should do it. My husband is a better ironer than I am–but I have him beat at trouble shooting the washing machine. There are still things that he just assumes I’ll do (and the same goes for me) but overall, we are pretty equitable. I am raising my sons to not expect the “star” treatment, by any means. My MIL had a cow and half when I told her that since I didn’t know any of these people (I didn’t say it quite like that) that husband would be sending out some thank you notes to the far flung relations of his. She mutters under her breath alot. ---
**Author:** ![belladonna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@belladonna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/belladonna)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/33 "2005-03-08T01:25:22Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Does that count in when you’re saying that the men don’t do housework, and the women are doing all that stuff too? lawn care – once a week snow – half a dozen times a season (around here) planting – once a year garbage – once a week repairs/paint/moving – few times a year I’m not saying men’s housework is unimportant, but you really can’t fairly compare it to chores like dishes (1-2 times daily), cooking (3 + daily), general tidying (daily), laundry (2-4 a week), shopping (1-3 a week), sweeping (3-4 a week), childcare (near-constant), etc. The majority of housework is in the tedious day-to-day stuff, it’s comparing apples and oranges, IMO. I know that I, as a single person who does both “man” and “women” work, would MUCH prefer to hoist the woman’s work onto someone else and take sole responsibility for the man stuff. There’s simply less of it. Of course, I’m talking only about steretypically gender-based chore divisions here, not commenting on individual situations, which obviously range from one extreme to the other. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/34 "2005-03-08T01:25:40Z")
I just thought it odd that people in the thread were talking about housework and they were saying like, cooking, cleaning, laundry, but that other stuff wasn’t mentioned at all. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/35 "2005-03-08T01:29:31Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Where do you all count things like lawn care, snow shoveling, flower planting, garbage removing, and household repairs like unclogging the sink, painting something, moving furniture, and that stuff my mom would consider dadsix’s job, yet not housework. > > Does that count in when you’re saying that the men don’t do housework, and the women are doing all that stuff too? Does that count when **who** is saying that men don’t do housework? No one in this thread has said men don’t do housework. On the contrary, at least three posters have supported SAHDs. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/36 "2005-03-08T01:36:23Z")
And yet the gist of the thread was that women are expected to do the housework and that men, mostly, are not kicking in their share. I think it’s just interesting that the ‘housework’ mentioned was entirely cleaning, cooking, and laundry. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/37 "2005-03-08T01:51:44Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Where do you all count things like lawn care, snow shoveling, flower planting, garbage removing, and household repairs like unclogging the sink, painting something, moving furniture, and that stuff my mom would consider dadsix’s job, yet not housework. > > Does that count in when you’re saying that the men don’t do housework, and the women are doing all that stuff too? Half this stuff is not done in an apartment. Let’s see, lawn care, snow shoveling (other than your own car), flower planting (usually only as a hobby in an apartment), painting something, is all generally not done in an apartment. But all the other housework is. Just making a point. Besides, as \*\*belladonna \*\* mentioned, a lot of these jobs are much less frequent than what we are thinking of as housework. And I don’t think of that as “man’s work” either. It’s gotta be done, whoever does it. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/38 "2005-03-08T01:53:03Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > And yet the gist of the thread was that women are expected to do the housework and that men, mostly, are not kicking in their share. > > I think it’s just interesting that the ‘housework’ mentioned was entirely cleaning, cooking, and laundry. Where? I see people complaining about old-fashioned attitudes regarding quality of housework by a select few men AND women (including mom’s and MILs) against whom they’re ranting. There are zero posts stating that men are not doing their share, and once again, at least THREE supporting men being SAHDs. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/39 "2005-03-08T02:01:48Z")
Well, I’m standing by my observation that it’s really odd that the same things keep coming up as housework, and that they’re certainly not inclusive of everything that is ‘house work.’ It’s odd to me. Now if you all want to keep ranting about the cooking, cleaning, and laundry, be my guest, but there’s a shit lot more to taking care of a house than that, and not everybody lives in an apartment. ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2005, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956/40 "2005-03-08T02:36:57Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > I take them to the cleaners, and for a buck each, I get them back cleaned and pressed and lightly starched, just the way he likes them. A buck? What cleaners do you use? I want to go there! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-a-maid-tame-and-lame/292956.md?page=3)