# What am I entitled to in a divorce? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 18, 2009, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837 "2009-01-18T06:13:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/41 "2009-01-19T04:58:44Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > In CA, it’s six months from when the first papers are filed or when the final decree comes through whichever is last. Mine was a relatively rare case of having the decree come through and then having to wait. > > My friend got divorced in OR. In that State, it’s when the final paper is signed and submitted to the clerk. > > It’s different everywhere. Do you know anyone who was divorced in IL? I could probably come up with someone, but I’d like to find someone I don’t know. This is way too new to share with anyone. I don’t even have a clue as to what the next step is. He’s basically pulling this, “Sorry I made you so miserable. I always figured I would die alone,” drama. Refusing to respond to any direct questions and acting like I’m the one who has “left him.” Man, this is going to be a long, hard road. If I didn’t have this amazing job starting soon, I don’t even know what I’d do. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/42 "2009-01-19T05:05:32Z")
I understand. I didn’t want to tell anyone for a while either. [This](http://www.divorcesource.com/info/divorcelaws/illinois.shtml) site seems to have good info. I’m assuming that you’re going to want a no-fault divorce. It looks like you need have lived apart for two years but you can ask for the two year requirement to be be waived and reduced to six months if both spouses agree. So…six months, I think. I’m not a lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/43 "2009-01-19T13:55:39Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > First of all, two people can come to any agreement that they want despite whatever calculations the Court might make if it were left up to them. Also, different jurisdictions will use different formulas. That said, there is a simple formula that will be used to calculate alimony and/or child support. Anyway, if the difference in incomes is less than something like 10%, there won’t be alimony. When my ex and I divorced, he paid me three years of spousal support despite the fact that I made more money than he did. The logic, which he agreed to, is that shortly before he left (leaving was his idea) we bought a new car and had car payments (spending as much as we did on a car - also his idea). I kept the car. Had the marriage been in such a state where he would be walking out the door a month after buying a new car, he should have never signed a loan. The support was very small, and the length of the loan. As the support got written up - it actually ended up lasting longer than the loan (the divorce took a year to process - and I paid off the loan early) - but he also stopped paying it early and I never went after him. We also had a house, which I also kept. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/44 "2009-01-19T14:34:18Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I could probably come up with someone, but I’d like to find someone I don’t know. This is way too new to share with anyone. I don’t even have a clue as to what the next step is. He’s basically pulling this, “Sorry I made you so miserable. I always figured I would die alone,” drama. Refusing to respond to any direct questions and acting like I’m the one who has “left him.” Man, this is going to be a long, hard road. If I didn’t have this amazing job starting soon, I don’t even know what I’d do. This is exactly why you need to consult a lawyer. You are overwhelmed and really need someone on your side. And I don’t mean your mother. Sounds like this will not be a quick-and-dirty amicable divorce. Stop talking about this to a message board. You are getting advice here that may or may not apply in your state and some that is misleading at best. This is serious. This is your life. Get a lawyer today. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/45 "2009-01-19T14:42:02Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Well, it seems like it’s really happening. Holy Shit, not only can I not believe my marriage is ending, I can’t believe that it’s ending via e-mail. This is so far beyond fucked up that it’s surreal. Guess it makes sense that it’s not working out. Sorry to hear this, Hazle. On the [del]bright[/del] less dim side, though: face-to-face can get ugly and violent, and for what? If it’s over, it’s over. Maybe he should have manned up but if he didn’t, it’s another reason that you can later feel like you have no regrets. It’s the exclamation mark at the end of the sentence. Note: Again, I’d be uber careful what I put into an email to him. Don’t give him anything that can be used against you. > [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Yeah, I’m basically mourning what we lost a LONG time ago. The absolute worst thing will be dealing with my niece (4) and nephew (2). They love him and he loves them. He and the nephew have a really special thing going and it just breaks my heart that that will probably end. This is so surreal, still. I’m sitting here in my hotel room, not 3 miles from the apartment and we’re e-mailing back and forth. More wine is in store for tonight…not to worry, though; no tipsy, weepy e-mailing! Thanks everyone. Also, what’s the fastest to moderately fastest that a divorce can be made final from the time a decision is made? I once talked to a guy who was in charge of Catholic counseling svcs. He said most marriages that end were really over in the first year. I.e. the battle lines are drawn and if a couple can’t work them out, that’s that. I also talked to a woman at work whose counselor said, “When you went in for counseling after a couple years of marriage, what did you argue about?” She told her. “And what are you arguing about today, 20 years later?” Same thing. FWIW I don’t think his relationship to the niece/nephew has to end. But you need ground rules. > [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > I could probably come up with someone, but I’d like to find someone I don’t know. This is way too new to share with anyone. I don’t even have a clue as to what the next step is. He’s basically pulling this, “Sorry I made you so miserable. I always figured I would die alone,” drama. Refusing to respond to any direct questions and acting like I’m the one who has “left him.” Man, this is going to be a long, hard road. If I didn’t have this amazing job starting soon, I don’t even know what I’d do. I wouldn’t let the promise of the amazing new job alter how you perceive what you deserve in the divorce settlement. This stuff is two steps backward, one step forward. You might check around your area for divorce support groups. My philosophy, when I got divorced, was: “This marriage sucked. I could have stayed in it longer, but it was suffering with no point…it was never going to work. Divorce is suffering, too, but at least one day the suffering will end. The sun will shine, I may meet someone more suited to me, etc. but even if I don’t, at least I’ll be okay in my own head.” One that I’ve heard really _bad_ things about, and it doesn’t apply to you, is Parents without Partners. I mention this for the lurkers’ benefit. Good luck, and be kind to yourself! ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/46 "2009-01-19T14:42:16Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Oh, that’s right! You may, however, get the court to agree to make him pay for your health insurance for a period of time. Happens all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/47 "2009-01-19T14:47:47Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Yeah, I’m basically mourning what we lost a LONG time ago. The absolute worst thing will be dealing with my niece (4) and nephew (2). They love him and he loves them. He and the nephew have a really special thing going and it just breaks my heart that that will probably end. This is so surreal, still. I’m sitting here in my hotel room, not 3 miles from the apartment and we’re e-mailing back and forth. More wine is in store for tonight…not to worry, though; no tipsy, weepy e-mailing! Thanks everyone. Also, what’s the fastest to moderately fastest that a divorce can be made final from the time a decision is made? My husband’s divorce was pretty quick, but his ex didn’t want to participate, so there was no resistance. They were only married a year, so he gave her 3 years of his income tax return (totalling $5K I think) and that was that. It took about 6 months if I recall. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/48 "2009-01-19T14:51:01Z")
IIRC I filed late Feb/early Mar and it was final early July in Texas. She didn’t resist…she waived going to court, in fact. Although I didn’t get the papers till August, from what I could tell it was official when I signed in July. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/49 "2009-01-19T15:53:39Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > IIRC I filed late Feb/early Mar and it was final early July in Texas. She didn’t resist…she waived going to court, in fact. Although I didn’t get the papers till August, from what I could tell it was official when I signed in July. I am curious about this - what papers exactly did you sign that ended your marriage? I see this in movies all the time (Twister springs to mind) where one party is insistent that the other party sign something legal-looking so they can get a divorce. What is this legal-looking document that when the other party signs, they are suddenly divorced? (Or is this not the appropriate place to ask? Mod? If so, just let me know.) ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/50 "2009-01-19T15:53:40Z")
The only regret I now have about not using a lawyer in my divorce was that a lawyer _might_ have warned me that failing to put the support payments I make to my ex into our divorce agreement as a requirement would mean that I now cannot deduct them from my income tax. Apparently if you’re just paying support “voluntarily,” the IRS doesn’t deem it worthy of recognition. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/51 "2009-01-19T16:00:09Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > I am curious about this - what papers exactly did you sign that ended your marriage? I see this in movies all the time (Twister springs to mind) where one party is insistent that the other party sign something legal-looking so they can get a divorce. What is this legal-looking document that when the other party signs, they are suddenly divorced? (Or is this not the appropriate place to ask? Mod? If so, just let me know.) I signed whatever the court gave me to sign. Again, I was the one who filed; she waived her right to appear in court. I went to court, the judge asked something along the lines of “Are there irreconcilable differences?” and I said, “That’s an understatement, yes.” IIRC he made sure there were no kids blah blah, banged his gavel, I signed something official and that was it. They mailed me copies later and I assume hers were mailed as well. But it had a stamp on it with the date it was filed. I looked it up on line…weird to see your signature on the computer screen. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/52 "2009-01-19T16:14:28Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > The only regret I now have about not using a lawyer in my divorce was that a lawyer _might_ have warned me that failing to put the support payments I make to my ex into our divorce agreement as a requirement would mean that I now cannot deduct them from my income tax. Apparently if you’re just paying support “voluntarily,” the IRS doesn’t deem it worthy of recognition. I am assuming these are spousal support payment, and not child support, yes? How are these payments described in the divorce decree? Are they part of the equitable distribution of marital assets? You don’t have to tell if you don’t want to. I practiced family law (not in your state) and I’m just fascinated by these things. And I have to say that a LOT of people came to me to UNDO the things that happened because they were not represented by counsel. Some thing could be undone, or at least modified; some not. I highly recommend at least consulting with a lawyer if something legal comes up. ---
**Author:** ![groo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecd19e/32.png) [@groo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/53 "2009-01-19T17:24:49Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Consult with an Illinois lawyer who handles divorces. You may also want to go to a book store and pick up a do it yourself divorce book. Nolo Press does well for California. You may also want to look into a mediated divorce. Talk to friends or pastors, etc about good divorce lawyers. You don’t want to get a bad divorce lawyer or they will wind up owning everything. One thing I’ve done in the past is talk to acquaintances who went through (or I guessed went through) similar situations. It was awkward, but at one point, I identified someone who I thought was very emotionally grounded, and asked him if he’d ever seen a therapist. He grinned and said yes, and gave me a reccommendation for his really good therapist. It might work. (It helped me find my primary care physician, therapist, accountant and chiropractor). I’d like to second and third the issue of just having a close friend help you through the divorce; it’s very difficult to make (good and) big decisions while you’re dealing with strong emotions. Having someone give advice from a more detached perspective will likely help you get out in one piece. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/54 "2009-01-19T17:25:21Z")
> [@legalsnugs](#): > > I am assuming these are spousal support payment, and not child support, yes? That is correct. > [@](#): > > How are these payments described in the divorce decree? Are they part of the equitable distribution of marital assets? They aren’t, and no. There’s nothing, not a single word, about money anywhere in our divorce papers, and we never did a separation agreement. We handled everything together and very amicably, all things considered. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/55 "2009-01-19T17:57:09Z")
> [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](#): > > Here is what I would ask for: 5-10 thousand dollars, the car and to remain covered by any/all insurance policies for one year from the date of the divorce. If it’s workplace-based insurance, this might not be possible. I am sure, since I went through divorce a bit under two years ago, that my plan does not allow me to cover a non-cohabitating, non-married partner. Wife? Yes. Live-in? Yes. But not just some other person who’s not sharing a legal status or legal residence with me. You might be able to take insurance with you as COBRA, check the rules, but that’s about $800/month on my plan and hardly something that I, as a divorced man, would want to be paying as a form of “spousal support”. As for the rest, I suggest you get to walk with what was individually yours before the marriage and half of what was acquired during the marriage. We divided gifts based on who gave it, gifts from my family went with me, gifts from hers went with her. It’s harder than I’m making it sound. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/56 "2009-01-19T18:02:56Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > The only regret I now have about not using a lawyer in my divorce was that a lawyer _might_ have warned me that failing to put the support payments I make to my ex into our divorce agreement as a requirement would mean that I now cannot deduct them from my income tax. Apparently if you’re just paying support “voluntarily,” the IRS doesn’t deem it worthy of recognition. If it really is “voluntary” and not “ordered”, why don’t you just stop paying them. If you’re talking about child-support, by the way, it’s not deductible for you nor considered income for him. Spousal support is the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/57 "2009-01-19T18:26:19Z")
Non-deductible spousal support v. deductible spousal support may very well come out to the same in the long run if the deductible spousal support would be grossed up in anticipation of the tax deduction by the payor and corresponding tax hit on the recipient. Of course I have no idea if this would come into play with **KneadToKnow’s** matter. ---
**Author:** ![legalsnugs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/45deac/32.png) [@legalsnugs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legalsnugs)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/58 "2009-01-19T18:54:58Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > If it really is “voluntary” and not “ordered”, why don’t you just stop paying them. If you’re talking about child-support, by the way, it’s not deductible for you nor considered income for him. Spousal support is the other way around. Yeah, I’m wondering that myself. I’m guessing \*\*KneadtoKnow \*\*is just a really really nice guy. Must be to make what amounts to a gift to the ex every month. Alimony is supposed to be deductible to the payor and taxable to the payee. Not only is the ex getting a bonus every month, \*\*KTK \*\*is paying her taxes on it! **KTK** , is she disabled or something? You might be doing something admirable, but you also might be doing something unnecessary since you have no legal obligation to continue. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/59 "2009-01-19T19:19:59Z")
> [@Belrix](#): > > If it really is “voluntary” and not “ordered”, why don’t you just stop paying them. > [@legalsnugs](#): > > You might be doing something admirable, but you also might be doing something unnecessary since you have no legal obligation to continue. I do it because I agreed to it. Early on, I went through a very dark period of thinking of it as a small price to pay for my freedom. Now, I’m prouder to say, it’s the last thing I can do for her. The boogie man of her entire life has been financial insecurity. When I left, I took three-fifths of the household income with me. I gave her a house and a promise of five years\* of financial support to try to keep that boogie man away for as long as I could. > [@Muffin](#): > > Of course I have no idea if this would come into play with **KneadToKnow’s** matter. I have no idea either, because I don’t understand a word of that. 🙂 All I know is, Publication 17 says if it’s not required by either our separation agreement or our divorce settlement, I can’t deduct it. - Actually, five years from when I moved out (July 2007) or through one year after she finishes grad school, whichever comes first. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837/60 "2009-01-19T19:38:43Z")
Another option would then be to figure out how much the tax difference would be if it was really deductible, divide that by your payment schedule, and reduce what you pay by that amount. It would be as if it were ordered in your agreement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-entitled-to-in-a-divorce/481837.md?page=4)