# What am I not allowed to read in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2010, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409 "2010-06-08T11:24:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FNAWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@FNAWright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FNAWright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/61 "2010-06-10T17:01:53Z")
You are not allowed to read or possess obscene material in the U.S. You might want to let Allen Ginsburg and others in on that ‘pure text is never obscene’ idea. I think most of the responses about child pornography are incorrect. The crux of the issue is still not whether the material concerns actual persons. There is a three part test to determine if material is obscene and therefore malum prohibitum (bad because it is against the law): Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions; Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. That’s why my Grove Press edition of the Marquis de Sade’s 120 Days of Sodom is not obscene, even though it undoubtably contains child pornography. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/62 "2010-06-10T17:12:40Z")
> [@FNAWright](#): > > Re: Cigars > A couple of years ago it was legal to bring back into the U.S. a certain quantity of cigars from Cuba. This was a result of a change in earlier law. Sometime in the last two years, the law was again changed to a strict prohibition. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/63 "2010-06-10T17:29:02Z")
> [@FNAWright](#): > > You are not allowed to read or possess obscene material in the U.S. > > You might want to let Allen Ginsburg and others in on that ‘pure text is never obscene’ idea. > > I think most of the responses about child pornography are incorrect. The crux of the issue is still not whether the material concerns actual persons. > > There is a three part test to determine if material is obscene and therefore malum prohibitum (bad because it is against the law): > > Whether the average person, applying contemporary community standards, would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; > Whether the work depicts/describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct or excretory functions; > Whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value. > > That’s why my Grove Press edition of the Marquis de Sade’s 120 Days of Sodom is not obscene, even though it undoubtably contains child pornography. You are just wrong here. Wrong wrong wrong. There is no prohibition on possessing obscene material in the United States. Under [_Stanley v. Georgia_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_v._Georgia), 394 U.S. 557 (1969) all state laws criminalizing possession of obscene material were struck as in violation of the First Amendment via the 14th Amendment. Child pornography’s illegality (for possession) is not dependent on whether or not it is determined to be obscene. I was wrong on the pure text never being ruled obscene - while it rarely is, it can be. But you need to stop confusing child pornography and obscenity. Your de Sade is not considered obscene because of the test you quoted. It is not considered prohibited child pornography because it is text rather than pictures. I believe, though I am not certain as I don’t have the law in front of me, to be considered prohibited child pornography there must be an actual photographic portrayal of an actual underage person. ---
**Author:** ![FNAWright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@FNAWright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FNAWright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/64 "2010-06-10T17:32:04Z")
Alright, not a couple of years ago, 2004. Go to second article, not about internet [http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/](http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/) ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/65 "2010-06-10T17:45:27Z")
> [@FNAWright](#): > > Alright, not a couple of years ago, 2004. Go to second article, not about internet > > [http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/](http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/) Interesting. But how many people actually were allowed to travel to Cuba? And how many cigars do you get for a lousy $100? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/66 "2010-06-10T17:45:38Z")
> [@FNAWright](#): > > Alright, not a couple of years ago, 2004. Go to second article, not about internet > > [http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/](http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/ofac-penalities-for-buying-cuban-cigars-on-the-internet-and-restrictions/) Well yes - if you had permission to visit Cuba, you could bring a limited amount in. You couldn’t bring them in from other countries. It’s a very small loophole that was closed. ---
**Author:** ![Generic\_Userid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc29f/32.png) [@Generic\_Userid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Generic_Userid)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/67 "2010-06-10T18:15:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Technically it is illegal for a U.S. citizen to smoke a Cuban cigar in a country where they are not prohibited. (Which is basically everywhere _except_ ‘The Land of the Free’. 😛 ) Nonsense. It is not illegal for a U.S. citizen to smoke a cuban cigar except where smoking in and of itself is outlawed (for example in a restaurant in a state where smoking in restaurants in banned). The language in your citations is very clear: it’s the _importation_ of the cuban cigar that is illegal, and not possession nor the cigar itself. And if you are in a foriegn country where it is legal to import/possess Cuban cigars, any U.S. law regarding those cigars is not applicable in any way, shape or form as long as you are not on U.S. property like a military base or diplomatic mission. Further technicalities abound … if you buy a Cuban product in Mexico and bring it into the U.S., technically you are not bringing in a product from Cuba, you are bringing in a product from Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/68 "2010-06-10T18:28:04Z")
> [@Generic\_Userid](#): > > Nonsense. It is not illegal for a U.S. citizen to smoke a cuban cigar except where smoking in and of itself is outlawed [Would you believe the U.S. Treasury](http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/programs/cuba/ccigar2.pdf)? (.pdf) (Emphasis mine.) > [@U.S. Treasury](#): > > Transactions Involving Cuban-Origin Goods in Third Countries > > **The question is often asked whether United States citizens or permanent resident aliens of the United States may legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and alcohol products, in a third country for personal use outside the United States. The answer is no.** The Regulations prohibit persons subject to the jurisdiction of the United States from purchasing, transporting, importing, or otherwise dealing in or engaging in any transactions with respect to any merchandise outside the United States if such merchandise (1) is of Cuban origin; or (2) is or has been located in or transported from or through Cuba; or (3) is made or derived in whole or in part of any article which is the growth, produce or manufacture of Cuba. Thus, in the case of cigars, the prohibition extends to cigars manufactured in Cuba and sold in a third country and to cigars manufactured in a third country from tobacco grown in Cuba. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/69 "2010-06-10T18:32:11Z")
[And](http://cigars.about.com/od/cubantradeembargo/qt/0062002a.htm): > [@](#): > > **Cuban Cigars Are Illegal at Home and Abroad** > > Technically, although an American citizen cannot even purchase or smoke a Cuban cigar while traveling abroad, there may not be any practical way to enforce the restriction. > > \ > > Cuban Assets Control Regulations, 31 C.F.R. Part 515, (Revised September 30, 2004) are administered and enforced by the Office of Foreign Assets Control. Criminal penalties for violation of the Regulations can go as high as $1 million for corporations, and $250,000 for individuals plus up to 10 years in prison. In addition, civil penalties of up to $65,000 per violation can be imposed by OFAC. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/70 "2010-06-10T18:37:12Z")
> [@Generic\_Userid](#): > > Further technicalities abound … if you buy a Cuban product in Mexico and bring it into the U.S., technically you are not bringing in a product from Cuba, you are bringing in a product from Mexico. Please don’t try this. Cuban goods don’t become Mexican goods any more than my paying US sales tax for Chinese goods in the US makes them American. At best you’ll get a laugh out of Customs as they confiscate your stuff. (This is one derailed thread :D) ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/71 "2010-06-10T21:19:55Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > Posessing _anything_ that you know to be stolen is a crime, right? Yeah; my point was that information could be considered to be a stolen object, so even if the actual piece of paper you’re looking at wasn’t stolen, if a copy of stolen document is printed on that paper, you could (possibly) be in possession of stolen property. I was also just thinking about material that might not be stolen property but was illegally gotten – say a peeping tom photograph from a hidden camera in a dressing room or something (let’s assume the victim is an adult). Now, whoever took the picture is surely civilly liabile to the victim, and I imagine a decent DA could find a statue to charge the creep with criminally. I don’t know what the legal status of the picture would be – it’s hard too see it as stolen property, but it wasn’t legally obtained. So a more knowledgable legal mind would have to weigh in on the possible crimes of knowingly possessing such pictures. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/72 "2010-06-10T21:59:28Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Has anyopne ever been prosecuted for this?“Cuban-style” cigars? “Kuban” cigars. ---
**Author:** ![ponzicar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@ponzicar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ponzicar)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/73 "2010-06-11T01:35:32Z")
It appears that you are not allowed to read pornographic Japanese comics depicting child sex and bestiality: [http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/02/obscene-us-manga-collector-jailed-6-months/](http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/02/obscene-us-manga-collector-jailed-6-months/) ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/74 "2010-06-11T02:25:58Z")
There’s an awful lot of self-congratulation here from Americans who seem to think every other country in the world is oppressed by censorship. For the purposes of comparison, here’s a complete list of every book I haven’t been able to read and every film I haven’t been able to see because I live outside the USA: ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/75 "2010-06-11T02:56:35Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > There’s an awful lot of self-congratulation here from Americans who seem to think every other country in the world is oppressed by censorship. > > For the purposes of comparison, here’s a complete list of every book I haven’t been able to read and every film I haven’t been able to see because I live outside the USA: Where do you live? If it’s Germany are you allowed to have/publish books doubting the Holocaust or pro-Nazi literature? What’s the law there? What about freedom of the press in China? ---
**Author:** ![Shakester](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shakester/32/437_2.png) [@Shakester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shakester)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/76 "2010-06-11T03:25:23Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Where do you live? If it’s Germany are you allowed to have/publish books doubting the Holocaust or pro-Nazi literature? What’s the law there? > > What about freedom of the press in China? I didn’t say there was no censorship outside the US, obviously there is plenty. My point is that there are _also_ plenty of places where there there is _also_ little or no censorship. It’s not like the US is _the only place in the world_ that has effective freedom of speech. Outside of dictatorships of various sorts, _everywhere_ has effectively the same level of freedom of speech as the US. Note: I’m saying “effectively” - which means that there _might_ be censorship laws still on the books in some places, but that they are not enforced in practice. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/77 "2010-06-11T03:27:08Z")
When I was in Denmark about four decades ago, they lived at a level of freedom that was at least as high as where we are now. They didn’t seem to be as hung up on things like nude beaches or nudity in general. _But they also weren’t as obsessed with it._ They weren’t so free to drive while intoxicated without much penalty though. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/78 "2010-06-11T04:20:40Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > With the exception of child pornography (and some classified documents) I can think of no book or article that would be illegal to have. That’s one of the great freedoms we have in the U.S. And there are some volumes out there, let me tell you. Books like [Successful Armed Robbery](http://www.loompanics.com/CrimeScience/crime_book21.htm), how to [kill someone](http://mirror.die.net/hitman/cover.gif), how to rip off a drug dealer, etc., etc., etc.. Here in Wisconsin we have a [guy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Fester_%28author%29) who rights books on poisons and instructions on how to make illegal drugs in your kitchen. Mere possession of any of these books is absolutely protected by our Bill of Rights. Wasn’t it “Here In Wisconsin” that a progressive magazine published plans to build a Hydrogen Bomb? And the feds fought and threatened them for six months because it contained classified information? And they finally published it, based on the 1st Amendment? [Yep!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Teller%E2%80%93Ulam_design#The_Progressive_case) ps: Publisher’s my daughter’s soccer coach. “The [H-bomb](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teller-Ulam_design) Secret: How we got it and why we’re telling it”… “In [1978](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978), Morland had decided that discovering and exposing this “last remaining secret” would focus attention onto the [arms race](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_race) and allow citizens to feel empowered to question official statements on the importance of nuclear weapons and nuclear secrecy.” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/79 "2010-06-11T05:58:44Z")
> [@Shakester](#): > > It’s not like the US is _the only place in the world_ that has effective freedom of speech. Nobody else is claiming this, so I don’t know why you are. > [@](#): > > Outside of dictatorships of various sorts, _everywhere_ has effectively the same level of freedom of speech as the US. Note: I’m saying “effectively” - which means that there _might_ be censorship laws still on the books in some places, but that they are not enforced in practice. This is simply wrong in the case of, for example, works that deny the Holocaust in Germany and other European nations: You cannot claim Germany is a dictatorship, and you cannot claim they are not banned. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409/80 "2010-06-11T15:49:47Z")
**Derleth** said: > [@](#): > > Nobody else is claiming this, so I don’t know why you are. **TriPolar** said: > [@](#): > > Aside from cigar labels and child porn, does anyone know of another country with this level of freedom? Is this a sincere or rhetorical question? Could be either. **Mr. Excellent** said: > [@](#): > > Say what you will about the American political system - there’s certainly much to criticize - but _this_, we do better than anyone on Earth. If you want it, you can read it, unless someone had to hurt kids to make it. Definitely reads as “USA best, nobody else this free.” **FNAWright** said: > [@](#): > > Concerning “rolled on the thighs of virgins” this really doesn’t even rise to the level of a myth. It’s a description that has made it into the popular lexicon. I’m pretty sure the idea is that virgins’ thighs are expected to be _smooth_, and they’re much sexier to think about than rolling on, for example, babies’ butts (also known for being smooth). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-not-allowed-to-read-in-the-us/542409.md?page=5)