# What am I seeing? (WTC wreckage photo) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 8, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182 "2003-09-08T00:15:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/21 "2003-09-08T20:59:20Z")
No, the North Tower was the first to be hit, but the second to fall. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/22 "2003-09-08T21:19:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eirik \* > \*\*What’s funny is that I distinctly remember seeing _somewhere_ a photo of a woman in a pink suit standing in the gaping hole left by the airplane and looking out. It was an image shot with sufficent clarity that I thought that someone who knew her would reconize her. I remember wondering at the time if she survived, and wondering how she survived being on a destroyed floor. \*\* I remember a picture like that too, and it was **not** the picture linked above. It was taken from a more straight-on, or maybe left side (photographer’s left) point-of-view of the hole in the North Tower. I don’t remember the pink suit, though, but I do remember the person as being a woman though I don’t know exactly why I know that. I believe the photo was even captioned as “woman looks out the hole” where ever it was that I saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/23 "2003-09-08T21:20:58Z")
Then it’s the North Tower. The first plane to hit was banked sharply just prior to impact, which shows in the linked photo. The second one hit the other tower more or less level, but came in at a sharp angle. ---
**Author:** ![patchbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dc4da7/32.png) [@patchbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patchbunny)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/24 "2003-09-08T21:50:50Z")
There’s a better copy of the picture in the FEMA report 9WTC Building Performance Study) on page 2-18. I’m willing to bet that it’s a person, given that the proportions work out so well between the legs, torso, and head, and the object size corresponds with the size of a person. The key would be to find another picture of the same opening, at a different time, and see if there’s anything still there. How ther person got there I can only speculate. The object is on the 94th floor, so it may be that someone managed to work their way down that far but could go no further. –Patch ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/25 "2003-09-08T22:16:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Then it’s the North Tower. The first plane to hit was banked sharply just prior to impact, which shows in the linked photo. The second one hit the other tower more or less level, but came in at a sharp angle. \*\* I think you have the sequence backward **Q.E.D.** The second plane was the one that was banked. Look [here.](http://www.brownalumnimagazine.com/photos/fe.wtc.jpg) This [picture shows the first hit to be horizontal (on the right) and the second hit](http://www.eudaimonic.com/images/wtc.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/26 "2003-09-08T22:31:13Z")
You’re right there, **Rick**. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/27 "2003-09-08T22:36:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Q.E.D. \* > \*\*Then it’s the North Tower. The first plane to hit was banked sharply just prior to impact, which shows in the linked photo. The second one hit the other tower more or less level, but came in at a sharp angle. \*\* Still wrong. The first plane hit the North Tower with wings more or less level. The second plane hit the South Tower sharply banked. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/28 "2003-09-08T22:41:20Z")
[Hole left by first plane in North Tower.](http://www.ictv1.com/north_tower1.jpg) [Second plane hits South Tower.](http://www.udc.edu/images/Second%20Plane_South%20Tower.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Eirik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b19c9b/32.png) [@Eirik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eirik)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2003, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/29 "2003-09-08T22:45:22Z")
Walloon: Last night on Discovery they ran the special “Collapse, why the Towers Fell” or something like that, which included a detailed look at the last moments of the first impact from the French camera crew that taped it. They reported (and it’s born out by a look at the damage in the photos) that the plane did a sharp bank at the last moment, probebly to maximize the amount of damage caused. ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/30 "2003-09-09T05:21:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by patchbunny \* > \*\*There’s a better copy of the picture in the FEMA report 9WTC Building Performance Study) on page 2-18. \*\* Here is a copy of that picture, it is much better. I think it looks more like bent steel in [this photo.](http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/bobobob/wtc.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bob55](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bob55](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bob55)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/31 "2003-09-09T05:33:10Z")
here’s two more images, I blew up the area [2X](http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/bobobob/wtc2.jpg) and [4X](http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/bobobob/wtc3.jpg). I guess it could still be a person. But there are a lot of fires in that area, what would the ambient temerature be? ---
**Author:** ![patchbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dc4da7/32.png) [@patchbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/patchbunny)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/32 "2003-09-09T06:06:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bob55 \* > \*\*Here is a copy of that picture, it is much better. I think it looks more like bent steel in [this photo.](http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/bobobob/wtc.jpg) \*\* The more I look at it, the more I think it’s a woman leaning against the column, looking down. Damn depressing image. –Patch ---
**Author:** ![Eirik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b19c9b/32.png) [@Eirik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eirik)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/33 "2003-09-09T06:12:04Z")
Bob55: By the time you get to 4X, I think it’s pretty clear that it’s a person, and a woman at that. The only other explaination that I can imagine is that it’s either a dummy or a cutout that was in an office and ended up at the window, but that strikes me as rather unlikely. How she survived the impact is beyond my imagination. I really wonder if she made it out. The more I look at it, I wonder if it’s the same woman that I remember seeing in that other photo. My memory tells me that it was a woman in a pink suit, but it’s been a couple years. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/34 "2003-09-09T06:19:34Z")
The first plane crashed into six floors (93-98) of the North Tower. The second plane crashed into seven floors (78-84) of the South Tower. I’m estimating the first plane was banked at 25 degrees, while the second plane was banked at 40 degrees. [A useful graphic](http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/news/gra/wtcvictims/frame.htm) (click arrow to get the second page). Let me correct something I wrote earlier. One of the three stairwells in the _South_ Tower remained undamaged from top to bottom. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/35 "2003-09-09T06:28:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by patchbunny \* > \*\*The more I look at it, the more I think it’s a woman leaning against the column, looking down. > > Damn depressing image. > > –Patch \*\* Funny that, because the more I look at it, the more I’m convinced that it isn’t a person. I can’t imagine how anyone can conclude that it’s a women based on anything more than the color of the clothes. Speaking of which, those WHITEish pants sure are clean for walking around in that burning, ashy, smokey mess. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/36 "2003-09-09T06:32:11Z")
woman\* ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/37 "2003-09-09T06:39:05Z")
Given that scores of still and video cameras were by then aimed at that opening in the North Tower, I think at least a few other photographers would have gotten shots of the alleged woman moving, gesturing, jumping, etc. However, that does not seem to be the case. This is an artifact of damaged steel (bottom of “woman”) and flame (top of “woman”), made suggestive by angle and distance. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/38 "2003-09-09T06:48:25Z")
And notice how the clean “clothes” (that should have been in quotes in my first post) are the same colors that are common throughout the picture, particularly nearby. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/39 "2003-09-09T06:57:50Z")
[Here’s another photo](http://www.davidicke.net/newsroom/america/usa/pics/toweroneimpactsite.jpg) of the crash site on the North Tower. Compare it with the other photo, and you can see the same stubby piece of steel column (below the last “hanging” piece of steel column on the left before the largest part of the hole begins) that forms the “woman’s” pants. ---
**Author:** ![paulberserker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@paulberserker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paulberserker)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2003, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182/40 "2003-09-09T10:13:29Z")
on the full picture, if you look to the right of where the ‘woman’ is (which i’m convinced is metal and flame) at about a 30 degree angle it looks like a man in a black suit sat looking across. people will read what they will into these things. the 4x pic posted above looks nothing like a woman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-am-i-seeing-wtc-wreckage-photo/200182.md?page=3)