# What America Stands For **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 19, 2003, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483 "2003-03-19T06:02:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/21 "2003-03-20T23:30:22Z")
You’re right, Tom. It _does_ look like nitpicking. I said it badly and even truncated the quote. What I was attempting to point out was that you are wrong to see a difference between modern constitutions that profess equality while “embedding restraint clauses in their text” and our founding documents which pulled the same devious trick. Our Declaration of Independece speaks of freedom and equality and our Constitution of justice but the government created provided none of these and was so limited in scope that it hadn’t the authority to do so if it had wanted. That is the assertion of yours I am correcting. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/22 "2003-03-20T23:46:47Z")
America stands for principles honored in condemnations of our government and country. Condemnations, earned and unconscionable, of our politicians and our people, are praises of American principles. Reproaches, deserved and illegitimate, of our government for abridgements and endangerments of freedom, foreign and domestic, are only possible because promoting and protecting freedom are standards of conduct for our government. The idea that freedom is greater than life, as an axiom, is what America stands for. ---
**Author:** ![Dogface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9d8465/32.png) [@Dogface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogface)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/23 "2003-03-20T23:48:05Z")
The greatest crime that history may ever ascribe to America is that we did not live up to what we could have been. There is still time for us to make such a claim impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/24 "2003-03-21T00:06:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*America stands for principles honored in condemnations of our government and country. > Condemnations, earned and unconscionable, of our politicians and our people, are praises of American principles. > Reproaches, deserved and illegitimate, of our government for abridgements and endangerments of freedom, foreign and domestic, are only possible because promoting and protecting freedom are standards of conduct for our government. > The idea that freedom is greater than life, as an axiom, is what America stands for. \*\* Wow. \ ---
**Author:** ![Splutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@Splutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Splutter)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/25 "2003-03-21T01:09:09Z")
.\*\*They do not see that we are trying to make the world a better place for everyone. \*\* Classic arguement for imperialism. Your better place might not be our better place, iidkyimys :mad: ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/26 "2003-03-21T01:49:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by iidkyimys \* > **Don’t expect us to help countries that oppress their citizens.** You mean like how the U.S. helped Saddam Hussein in the 1980s, because at the time we happened to dislike Iran more than we disliked Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/27 "2003-03-21T02:37:13Z")
That should read: America stands for principles honored in condemnations of our government and country. Condemnations, the earned and the preposterous, of our politicians and our people, are praises of American principles. Reproaches, deserved and illegitimate, of our government for abridgements and endangerments of freedom, foreign and domestic, are only possible because promoting and protecting freedom are standards of conduct for our government. The idea that freedom is greater than life, as an axiom, is what America stands for. ---
**Author:** ![McDuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@McDuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McDuff)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483/28 "2003-03-21T02:38:54Z")
Tsk, tsk, **tracer**. During the Iraq/Iran war, you armed _both_ sides. I am led to believe that the intention was to make sure that the region remained unstable and undemocratised. Can’t imagine that, though… Oh, and I pretty much agree with **dogface**. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-america-stands-for/162483.md?page=1)