# What American cities not named NYC or Chicago can you comfortably live in w/o a car? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 29, 2009, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613 "2009-01-29T21:20:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/21 "2009-01-30T00:35:29Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Pretty much any major college town or area of town have evolved to allow car-less living by necessity. Like Ann Arbor. Actually, it is not that easy to live in Ann Arbor without a car. Specifically, there is no supermarket within walking distance of downtown. There are a couple minimarts, but it would be crazy (and expensive) to try and cook for a family from those. Nor does the bus system run to the elementary schools. If you’re a fulltime student living on campus, you would not need a car. Those of us participating in Real Life ™ would need a car to live in Ann Arbor. I live in Kew Gardens, a neighborhood in Queens. You can certainly get a 2BR for $2,000 here, the schools are pretty good, and its convenient to Manhattan both by NYC subway and Long Island Railroad (commuter rail). ---
**Author:** ![hobscrk777](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a6a055/32.png) [@hobscrk777](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hobscrk777)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/22 "2009-01-30T01:01:00Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Can you cite the part about the schools? I would be interested in seeing those reports. > > If he lived in the burbs, how would he get around to stores and what not? How is the actual mass transit in the city? Mass transit in the city I think is pretty great. But once you get out into the 'burbs of DC, you’re really going to need a car. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/23 "2009-01-30T01:07:13Z")
Somebody mentioned Montreal. Probably not relevant because you would have to immigrate. But yes, you could live quite easily without a car. Some of the markets even have taxi stands. I have a car, but I know of at least two car-less neighbors. Rents are cheap (a 2BR apartment with all utilities might set you back around $1000/month, depending on the neighborhoods). The transit was better 40 years ago, but they are planning major improvements now that ridership is seriously growing. I grew up in Philly and the transportation was superb then. In fact we didn’t have a car till my senior year in HS and I hardly ever used it. But I spent a year there in 89-90 and it was not nearly as good. Rents are cheap as is real estate. My son lived there for two years and bought–and then sold two years later–a 3 storey, 5BR house in a nice neighborhood for $200,000. He now lives in Brooklyn where he pays $5400/month for a large 3BR apartment. My daughter lives three blocks away and pays about half that for a tiny 1BR apartment. But the transportation is superb and you gotta be nuts to even want a car. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/24 "2009-01-30T01:10:39Z")
Salt Lake City has a great public transit system (I live with two people who have their own lives and no cars and do just fine) and my 2 bedroom apartment is $800/month…and I live in the expensive part of town. ---
**Author:** ![Yorikke](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yorikke/32/4335_2.png) [@Yorikke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yorikke)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/25 "2009-01-30T01:12:28Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > You can live in San Francisco just fine without a car. Really. Much easier than you can in New York, because of the temperate weather. You’ll have to deal with the hills, but unless you live at the top of one of them, there’s almost always a way around. > > The two-bedroom place for under $2,000 per month? Not so sure about that. Housing costs are at least comparable to New York. Yeah, two-grand two-bedrooms are doable. We pay $1500 for a smallish one-bedroom in a quiet part of the [Sunset District](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunset_District), and, though they were out of our range, there were two-bedrooms at about $1950. This was a year ago, almost exactly. And no, you don’t NEED a car. It’s nice, but parking can be rough, and a bus pass is something like $45.00 per month. Joe ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/26 "2009-01-30T01:20:06Z")
I’ll third Seattle for carless, though you do of course need to consider where you work re where you live. I can’t speak to housing cost there as it’s been too long for me and most of my friends still there either moved to the burbs or have unique situations. Seattle is stunningly beautiful when the sun is out, and mildly damp (as opposed to torrentially downpoured-upon) when not. It does not get as many inches of rain as you might think, though it is cloudy more often than not, but even that compares favorably to more Eastern cities than you might imagine. May I mention, in the negative, that you should NOT move to Austin with those priorities, as its mass transit sucks, largely due to how the city itself is designed. If you carefully live within walking distance of where you work… well, then you still have to be willing to walk regularly in 90+ degree F heat while sucking up some pretty diesel-exhausty air. Austin is fantastic in other respects, but not in the sense of doing without a car. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/27 "2009-01-30T01:36:13Z")
Along with San Francisco comes the East Bay. It’s flat (good for biking), the weather is better and rents are cheaper. I lived in Oakland (which does have some nice neighborhoods) for a year without a car. Schools could be a problem though. Santa Cruz, CA is a small piece of paradise that you can live comfortably in without a car (you can walk across town in an hour, and there is a great bus system). It’s a friendly college/beach town nestled between the ocean and the redwoods. It’s full of free-spirits and funky neighborhoods with beautiful old houses. People there are committed to their town and the schools are good. Rent is expensive, but a reasonably nice 2k house should be possible with some looking. The only drawback is that there are few jobs there- tourism is the main industry and the university assures and infinite supply of cheap labor. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/28 "2009-01-30T01:49:16Z")
As others have said, Washington DC is an easy city to live in without a car. In addition to the Metro, the city has a lot of Flex cars scattered throughout. My neighbors were carless and used Flex Car when they needed a car. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/29 "2009-01-30T03:40:45Z")
You can live in Salt Lake City without a car (as **Pepperlandgirl** says) – even without public transit, it’s small enough that you can walk anywhere you want.\* But in SLC, with so much excellent outdoor stuff so close by, I’d still want a car. \*This is true of Boston, too. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/30 "2009-01-30T04:34:54Z")
There are probably a bunch of smaller cities you could do this in, but I’m not sure if that’s what you had in mind. For instance, you could probably live in New Haven or Providence or Burlington without a car and be ok, but your options for stuff to do or places to shop might be more limited than you’d want. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/31 "2009-01-30T09:07:40Z")
> [@wolfman](#): > > Pretty much any major college town or area of town have evolved to allow car-less living by necessity. Like Ann Arbor, Boulder etc. I would add Madison to the list as my daughter (grad student) has been without a car now for over a year and a half. ---
**Author:** ![Student\_Driver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@Student\_Driver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Student_Driver)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/32 "2009-01-30T14:31:34Z")
> [@Natty\_Bumppo](#): > > Are you sure abou that? IndyGo is fairly pathetic as a bus system, and there is no rail. I love Indianapolis, but I wouldn’t want to live here without a car. I’ve a few friends and an ex-girlfriend who live and work in downtown Indianapolis and do without cars. With Circle Center Mall and many residential and office buildings all interconnected via skyway, my ex was capable of living much of her day-to-day life without ever being outdoors. IndyGo is useful for going to the suburbs, but there’s not much need to do so since one has access downtown to pretty much any good or service one would need. (As an aside, my mom and I lived for 15 years in Indy’s southern suburbs without a car; we were within walking distance of her job and all of the amenities we needed, like libraries, grocery stores, etc. No downtown needed.) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/33 "2009-01-30T17:13:15Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Can you cite the part about the schools? I would be interested in seeing those reports. > > If he lived in the burbs, how would he get around to stores and what not? How is the actual mass transit in the city? The close-in suburbs (Arlington and Alexandria on the Va. side, Chevy Chase and Bethesda in Md.) have urbanized areas with walkable groceries and restaurants. Some of those areas will be mostly condos, but some will include single-family homes. Both of those areas have good school systems. The public schools in the District are a much chancier affair. ---
**Author:** ![BetsQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/fbc32d/32.png) [@BetsQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BetsQ)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/34 "2009-01-30T17:21:32Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Can you cite the part about the schools? I would be interested in seeing those reports. > > If he lived in the burbs, how would he get around to stores and what not? How is the actual mass transit in the city? [Newsweek ranking of public high schools](http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380). Here’s a start. Richard Montgomery, Wootten, Bethesda-Chevy Chase, Walt Whitman, Walter Johnson, and Winston Churchill are all in the top 100 in the country and that’s just Montgomery County. Rumor is that Fairfax is even better and there are some good schools in Arlington as well. It’s a good area for public schools. BTW, those are all large, regular high schools - not magnet schools. We live in the close-in burbs. You could definitely live in Silver Spring, for example, without a car. If you’re close enough to walk to the Metro, there are also drug stores, grocery stores, restaurants, daycare, dry-cleaners, etc. in walking distance. Not sure about rent, though. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/35 "2009-01-30T17:34:01Z")
Hell, if I give myself a little time, I can _walk_ to almost everywhere in San Francisco from my place. I’ll back up **even sven** on Oakland/Berkeley and Santa Cruz, as well. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/36 "2009-01-30T17:35:07Z")
> [@BetsQ](#): > > [Newsweek ranking of public high schools](http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380). > > Here’s a start. Richard Montgomery, Wootten, Bethesda-Chevy Chase, Walt Whitman, Walter Johnson, and Winston Churchill are all in the top 100 in the country and that’s just Montgomery County. Rumor is that Fairfax is even better and there are some good schools in Arlington as well. It’s a good area for public schools. BTW, those are all large, regular high schools - not magnet schools. > > We live in the close-in burbs. You could definitely live in Silver Spring, for example, without a car. If you’re close enough to walk to the Metro, there are also drug stores, grocery stores, restaurants, daycare, dry-cleaners, etc. in walking distance. Not sure about rent, though. Thank you for the link. I notice that it leans heavy to magnate type schools and not general High Schools. It takes until 430 to get the 11th best “normal” HS in New Jersey. Are the DC burb HS high on the list “normal” HS or magnates? If you are looking at magnate types I think NYC is the best location. ---
**Author:** ![Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Laughing\_Lagomorph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Laughing_Lagomorph)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/37 "2009-01-30T17:56:05Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Thank you for the link. I notice that it leans heavy to magnate type schools and not general High Schools. It takes until 430 to get the 11th best “normal” HS in New Jersey. Are the DC burb HS high on the list “normal” HS or magnates? If you are looking at magnate types I think NYC is the best location. [Magnet, dude. Magnet.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnet_school) [QUOTE=badbadrubberpiggy] You could get a 3 bedroom outside of Boston (think Brighton/Brookline) for slightly less than $2,000, but it would be very small. . [/QUOTE] I don’t think of either Brighton or Brookline as being “outside of Boston”. Especially Brighton considering it is actually a neighborhood of the city. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Am\_The\_Lorax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19adc/32.png) [@I\_Am\_The\_Lorax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Am_The_Lorax)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/38 "2009-01-30T18:30:26Z")
Buffalo isn’t the best for weather or jobs, but I have a huge 3bd apartment in the nicest neighborhood and I pay just slightly over $600/month. I have never even had a car, and I have two kids. ---
**Author:** ![Cowboy8467](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Cowboy8467](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cowboy8467)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/39 "2009-01-30T18:35:31Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Thank you for the link. I notice that it leans heavy to magnate type schools and not general High Schools. It takes until 430 to get the 11th best “normal” HS in New Jersey. Are the DC burb HS high on the list “normal” HS or magnates? If you are looking at magnate types I think NYC is the best location. The majority of them were, as stated not magnet high schools. Richard Montgomery, Wootten, Bethesda-Chevy Chase, Walt Whitman, Walter Johnson, and Winston Churchill are all regular high schools. I did not attend any of those, but I went to a large high school in that same district and it is one of the better school districts in the country. Fairfax county VA and Montgomery county, MD are both in the top 10 in terms of richest counties in the nation last time I checked. ---
**Author:** ![melodyharmonius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/melodyharmonius/32/21310_2.png) [@melodyharmonius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/melodyharmonius)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613/40 "2009-01-30T18:49:59Z")
I lived in Denver for 2 years (2004-2006) and was carless most of that time. [Denver’s RTD](http://www.rtd-denver.com/) is fairly computer friendly - I would just type in where I was and where I wanted to go and it gave me my options. Also, I was able to buy the discounted pass through my employer. And your kids would be able to buy them discounted through the schools. As for things like groceries, I dated a cab driver and he said it was very common for people to ride the bus to their local grocery store and then call for a ride back with their stuff. Some cabs charged per bag for the service - but most didn’t. You _do_ have to be comfortable with calling “bullsh\*t” on cab drivers, though. And, although Denver is not snow-covered year round like everyone thinks - there are times when it is cold and waiting for the bus really bites. However, honestly, I loved commuting by public transportation. I met some really great folks, got to do a lot of reading and napping, was better organized (can’t be late or you have to wait), and was even inspired to write a series of poems about several observations I made. And the view in Denver is just breath-taking. I swear. I worked as a contractor and on my first day at one of my assignments, I got out of the elevator and checked in with the receptionist. The reception desk had this absolutely gorgeous mural behind it - just amazing. Then I realized it was just a set of windows! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-american-cities-not-named-nyc-or-chicago-can-you-comfortably-live-in-w-o-a-car/483613.md?page=3)