# What animal is #2 on the food chain? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 4, 2020, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165 "2020-12-04T02:27:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/41 "2020-12-10T22:22:55Z")
Gato, I think she is the apex predator and you are #2. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2020, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/42 "2020-12-10T23:42:05Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Thats a complete and utter myth. I just went looking on the internet, to see if anyone else agreed with you, but nope. You seem to be on your own. Rich Chinese people will eat tiger meat, but that’s sympathetic medicine, not calories. True about people too. People on a mostly vegetarian diet were known to taste different than people who ate a lot of meat. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/43 "2020-12-11T04:55:59Z")
Mosquitos. They kill more humans, the #1 on the food chain, than anything else. By far. And they regularly feed on the #1 of the food chain. ---
**Author:** ![tripthicket](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripthicket/32/297_2.png) [@tripthicket](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tripthicket)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/44 "2020-12-11T08:36:13Z")
Did I miss someone mentioning cockroaches? I’ve heard it said many times that after the apocalypse, the only things left in the radioactive wastelands will be Twinkies and cockroaches. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/45 "2020-12-11T15:31:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Though I could happily label the hippo an “Apex defender.” IOW, something you f\*\*\* with at your extreme peril no matter how badass a critter you are. > > Readily kill humans if provoked? Check. > Readily kill lions if provoked? Check. > Readily kill packs of hyenas if provoked? Check. > Readily kill salt water crocodiles if provoked? Check. > Readily kill [fill in the blank] if provoked? Check. > > Apex defender. Doesn’t cause much shit, but takes even less. Kinda like Chuck Norris or maybe Billie Jack. But badder ass. I think this overstates things considerably. Hippos can usually drive off these creatures if confronted, but it’s very rare that they kill any of them (aside from humans, apparently). And the others can and do prey on hippos, though rarely full grown ones in good health. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/46 "2020-12-11T18:06:32Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Hippos can usually drive off these creatures if confronted, but it’s very rare that they kill any of them (aside from humans, apparently). And the others can and do prey on hippos, though rarely full grown ones in good health. I don’t think hippos go out of their way to kill these things but if these things are in their “you’re too close zone” then yeah…they’ll run after it (but most other animals will be faster on land…in the water they are doomed). I have seen video of hippos killing a crocodile that unwisely swam right into their midst. The croc figured out its mistake too late and was promptly chomped to death. Obligatory pic of a gamekeeper being chased by a hippo: [![](https://i.redd.it/3r4mxlhua8l11.jpg) ](https://i.redd.it/3r4mxlhua8l11.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/47 "2020-12-11T19:11:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I don’t think hippos go out of their way to kill these things but if these things are in their “you’re too close zone” then yeah…they’ll run after it (but most other animals will be faster on land…in the water they are doomed). I have seen video of hippos killing a crocodile that unwisely swam right into their midst. The croc figured out its mistake too late and was promptly chomped to death. Hippos can chase all sorts of things but that’s not the same thing as killing them. Hippos are not really set up for killing things like lions or hyenas or even dogs, which can easily outrun them. If a hippo happens to get a good chomp on one of these animals, it can kill it, but those animals are fast, agile, and smart enough to stay out of the way of the hippo’s mouth. What lions do is attack from the rear and from the top. The hippo has a hard time attacking anything to its rear and is reduced to constantly turning around and around, which is tiring, especially since it’s being tag teamed. What makes hippos mostly impervious to such attacks is not its ability to injure these animals, but rather the fact that it’s difficult for them to kill hippos. This is because the hippo’s skin is very think, its big and broad body is difficult to fit into the teeth, and because due to its size, shape, and strength, it’s difficult to knock down. So trying to kill one is a very tough go. But it’s not like hippos can kill them either - unless it gets a lucky grab it won’t do much to it. I’m curious as to your video of hippos killing a croc. Not that I think it’s impossible to happen, but I’ve seen a lot of videos of hippos confronting crocs and none of them involved a hippo actually killing a croc. In particular, there was one very similar to the one you described, with a large group of hippos manhandling a croc which had wandered into their midst, but it did not end up with the hippos killing the croc. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/48 "2020-12-11T19:23:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I’m curious as to your video of hippos killing a croc. Sure (WARNING - videos below shows animals being killed): [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/fLZHEnaCU9A/maxresdefault.jpg "Watch What Happens When a Crocodile Walks Into a Herd of Hippos | Nat Geo Wild") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLZHEnaCU9A) And here are hippos chomping and a bunch of other animals like lions and such: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toEsTZW-U5o) ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/49 "2020-12-11T19:39:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Sure (WARNING - videos below shows animals being killed): That’s the video I was referring to, which I had previously seen. Per the video, the croc survived and was not killed by the hippos, contrary to your claim. The other video is 11 minutes long and I don’t have that time right now. But to be clear, are you claiming that it shows any instances of hippos _killing_ (as opposed to chasing or biting) lions, hyenas, or crocs as you originally claimed? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/50 "2020-12-11T19:58:44Z")
It’s not clear if the animals survived. A hippo gets a lionesses whole head in its mouth and picks her up. If she lived she is lucky. Same with that croc. I doubt the hippos were trying to be gentle and we’ve all seen hippo teeth. If one of those daggers had pierced the lioness in her head or throat it’d almost certainly be the end of her. And I never suggested that hippos run around chasing stuff like a predator would. Just if you get too close…whatever animal you are…they may well go after you. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/51 "2020-12-11T20:37:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It’s not clear if the animals survived. A hippo gets a lionesses whole head in its mouth and picks her up. I assume you’re referring to the lioness here. As previous, the video explicitly states that eyewitnesses said the croc survived. Re the lioness, she survived too. That clip is taken from a longer documentary about that pride, which said that after X amount of time she was back to normal. (Worth being aware that many nature videos on YouTube are compilations of extracts from other videos, often with misleading titles and descriptions (generally oversensationalist, in the aim of attracting views).) My original point was not that a hippo couldn’t kill one of these animals if it got lucky. But your claim was that hippos “readily kill” these other animals, which is overstating things considerably. The fact that you can’t find any examples of hippos killing any of them supports this. If they were “readily kill[ing]” lions and “packs of hyenas” etc. there would be examples of this on film. (By contrast, there are videos of lions killing hippos, even though this itself is not common either.) ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/52 "2020-12-11T21:33:09Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > But your claim was that hippos “readily kill” these other animals… Where did I say that? ---
**Author:** ![a6ka97](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@a6ka97](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/a6ka97)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/53 "2020-12-11T21:41:16Z")
I see with my original post about Hippos is they are a very aggressive defender, not necessarily a meat /food eating aggressor like humans are. I would think large pedatory birds like hawks, falcons or eagles that the can pick up small mammals or pack animals (in a way human hunters are also) such as wolves and coyotes would be near the top. I read somewhere that lions and tigers usually let some other animal do the killing and then come in to eat, true? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/54 "2020-12-12T15:45:09Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > > > But your claim was that hippos “readily kill” these other animals… > > Where did I say that? I think you got blamed for my somewhat too hyperbolic post. I’m the guy who introduced “readily kill” into the conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/55 "2020-12-13T00:32:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Where did I say that? I had you confused with LSLGuy. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/56 "2020-12-19T15:59:26Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I just went looking on the internet, to see if anyone else agreed with you, but nope. You seem to be on your own. Oh, you went on the internet for a look. I went to three different universities’ Anthropology libraries over a period of 12 years, and excavated Prehistoric and Historic sites with animal remains for a living, to end up with this idea. Then I proceeded to test this personally. Nothing like experimental studies to back things up. Anyone else agreed? Let’s take a quick, surface-skimming, global look: the Sami (Arctic Europe), the Montagnais (Subarctic North America) and the Selknam (Tierra del Fuego) among others all considered fox and marten as meat animals. The Selknam actually placed fox meat as top delicacy. They mostly subsisted on guanaco, so it was not a question of you gotta eat what you get. In the Mesolithic of Northeastern Europe, a period of 6 000 years over 2 000 000 sq. kms, carnivorous animals’ bones exhibit the exact same meat-cutting marks as the bones of herbivorous animals. In addition to wild carnivores, dogs were one of the most common meat animals throughout prehistory. Historically, one can find multiple recipes for cooking badger, in places like England and Germany. There are historical accounts of lynx meat being extremely good eating. Anecdotally, I have served fox and badger to multiple people. Not one has been of the opinion that the dish was anything less than a similar dish made of rabbit, moose etc. Hell, even Jared Diamond comments on having a lion burger, and a tasty one, too. Yes, if you go have a look on the internet, in English, in 2020, you will have a hard time coming up with much. This is precisely the cultural bias I was talking about. We have strong ideas about what is fit for consumption and what is not, just like every other culture in history, but this is not based on any meaningful differences in taste or texture or nutrition or satiety. They are culturally determined, irrational biases. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/57 "2020-12-21T06:09:14Z")
I say “by preference we eat”, – and you discard that as “cultural bias”. I think that you _really wanted to say something_, so you took the opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/58 "2020-12-21T06:47:43Z")
I would say the gray wolves and all their close relatives which are still true wolves. I believe they are the most widespread and capable of defending their territory against anything but humans. Brown bear which includes polar bears and big cats if lumped together would possibly be superior. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2020, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165/59 "2020-12-21T12:15:49Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I say “by preference we eat” We prefer, _without any actual experience_, cow over fox, but the Selknam prefer fox over guanaco, having had both on a regular basis. Cultural bias. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-animal-is-2-on-the-food-chain/927165.md?page=2)