# What Are Among the Bloodiest Battles in History? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954 "2002-11-02T03:08:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/1 "2002-11-02T03:08:54Z")
What battles do historians generally consider to be the absolute goriest and deadliest? (I realize historical data are incomplete, the term “bloodiest” is ill-defined, and many confounding variables complicate answering this question, but give it your best educated guess–in the way you choose to define “bloodiest,” whether it involve absolute numbers of deaths, kill-to-combatant ratios, etc.) Where, for instance, would the battle of Okinawa rank? The Somme? Antietam? ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/2 "2002-11-02T03:27:20Z")
The battle of Cannae is reputed to be the bloodiest. No single battle has seen more dead. Out of 70,000 Roman troops, only about 2000 survived. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/3 "2002-11-02T03:59:32Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** This will probably be answered differently depending on different defintions of “bloodiest” (or “battle”), and there will be differences of opinion on the actual numbers even if the definitions are agreed on, but I think it will still fit best in General Questions. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/4 "2002-11-02T04:32:48Z")
My definition of “bloodiest” is most casualties (dead, wounded, missing, or captured). I would think World War One has good candidates: Verdun Total French casualties: 377,000, Total German casualties: 337,000 Somme (1916) British & Empire casualties: 419,654, French casualties: 204,253 German casualties: 450,000-680,000 Brusilov’s Offensives (1916-1917) German casualties: over 450,000 Russian casualties: estimated around 1,000,000 Just for illustration. Although maybe if the definiotn of bloodiest is fewest survivors, or highest casualty rates, these are not the best examples. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/5 "2002-11-02T05:16:24Z")
Stalingrad is certainly up there then…More than 300,000 dead. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/6 "2002-11-02T05:36:21Z")
Antietam: seems to be agreed bloodiest _single day_. Wasn’t there some fairly ghastly carnage in the Taiping business in China ca. 1850? Tsunami: Maybe specify a time frame (i.e., length of “battle”)? Stalingrad lasted 900 days. Isn’t that more of a siege? Specify “bloodiest” (deaths? deaths as a proportion of forces? deaths per day? deaths+injuries+invalided (“casualties”)? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/7 "2002-11-02T05:40:38Z")
The somme, verdun, and Stalingrad aren’t really battles, as such. They’re operations or campaigns. Battle tends to denote a specific action or series of actions against the same core forces in a short period of time, at least to me. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/8 "2002-11-02T05:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SenorBeef \* > \*\*The somme, verdun, and Stalingrad aren’t really battles, as such. They’re operations or campaigns. Battle tends to denote a specific action or series of actions against the same core forces in a short period of time, at least to me. \*\* Then I’d say Cannae. Or perhaps some of Genghis or Tamerlane’s exploits… ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/9 "2002-11-02T08:44:51Z")
Not to dispute Cannae but [The Battle of Towton](http://www.fifteenthcentury.net/towton.html) on 29/03/1461 during the Wars of the Roses puts down a marker for a single day conflict on British soil. 28,000 combatants died in 10 hours. The battle took place during a snowstorm and contemporary reports describe the snow turning red with blood. The surviving Lancastrians ultimately fled the battle scene and, pursued by the Yorkists, many dived into a river and drowned. Towton was a truly brutal engagement. . . . (Modern historians give no credence, on logistical grounds, to the figure of 200,000 allegedly killed in a single day at Chalons (Huns v. Romans) in AD 451) ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/10 "2002-11-02T13:22:43Z")
Go back through Chinese history and there are some incredibly bloody battles. The Taiping uprising was not a single battle but millions and millions died. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms mentions numerous battles and campaigns for a single objective where over a million soldiers died. ---
**Author:** ![tsunamisurfer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a698b9/32.png) [@tsunamisurfer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tsunamisurfer)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/11 "2002-11-02T13:59:43Z")
I vaguely remember hearing that the Somme battle/campaign saw something like 40,000 deaths in a one-hour period. True? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/12 "2002-11-02T15:23:53Z")
Cannae is generally accepted as the single bloodiest day in a War. If 10 months of fighting in pretty much the exact same place fits the definition of a “battle”, then the “Battle of Verdun” an orgy of death between the French and German armies is my nomination for the Bloodiest battle. There were an estimated 540,000 French and 430,000 German casualties\*. Recall **Nothing** came of this. **No** strategic advantages were gained for either side. The Battle of Verdun site itself is remembered as the “battlefield with the highest density of dead per square yard.” \*This may beat the 4 month Battle of the Somme where losses on the British 419,654 with German casualties were 450,000, but if the German losses were higher (as a range is sometimes given) then this might be the bloodiest. Also, the Somme took place over a [very] few miles unlike Verdun. In any event, the second bloodiest day (after Cannae) and bloodeist day of WWI, as **tsunami** mentions, was the first day of the Somme when the British suffered +57,000 casualties to move circa a half mile. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/13 "2002-11-02T15:50:43Z")
Just for clarification, the Battle of Antietam on September 17, 1862 was the bloodiest day in American history, not world history. The many WWI battles mentioned above (the Somme, Verdun, etc.) had much higher single day casualties than did Antietam. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2002, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/14 "2002-11-02T19:38:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Then I’d say Cannae. Or perhaps some of Genghis or **Tamerlane’s** exploits… You wrang? 😉 Actually Tamerlane’s body count in set-piece battles weren’t the highest - His biggest victories like Kanduzcha ( 1391 ), Terek River ( 1395 ), and Angora ( 1402 ), weren’t battles of annhilation. Rather it was his slaughters and sacks _after_ major battles and sieges ( especially of cities like Baghdad, Smyrna, Delhi, and Isfahan ), that made his infamy. The Chingisids score rather higher. The conservative estimate of the body count at the Sajo River ( Mohi ) where Subotai crushed the Hungarians, was 60,000 Hungarian dead ( out of an estimated 100,000 ). Many more of those Hungarians later died in the post-battle mopping up actions. But for sheer annihilation of a professional army in a single engagement, Cannae may well be tops. Hannibal deserves his reputation. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/15 "2002-11-03T00:02:22Z")
While Antietam was the bloodiest **single day** in US warfare, the 3 days at Gettysburg was the costliest **battle** ever fought in the western hemisphere. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/16 "2002-11-03T04:36:44Z")
At least one cite I saw stated that 300,000 died at the Battle of Nicea during the 1st Crusade. I can’t vouch for the accuracy, though. Other battles whose death tolls may rival Cannae include Salamis and Guagamala. Worth investigating. As to Gettysburg being the deadliest battle in the western hemisphere…certainly the destruction of Tenochtitlan (sp?) rivals, if not surpasses, in bodycount. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/17 "2002-11-03T04:47:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*While Antietam was the bloodiest **single day** in US warfare, the 3 days at Gettysburg was the costliest **battle** ever fought in the western hemisphere. \*\* You may be right about that, as a 3-day toll, but as catastrophies in the Western Hemisphere go, I don’t think our civil war can compare to the War of the Triple Alliance, 1864-1870, when Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay ganged up on Paraguay. By the end of the war, Paraguay’s army was mosly little boys armed with rocks. The 1870 male population of Paraguay was 1/10th of 1864, these men and boys killed or taken as slaves to Brazil. Another bit of trivia made only more sadder by its obscurity - the bloodiest American battle was not Gettysburg or The Bulge, but the six-week, 60,000-casualty Battle of the Argonne in WWI. We can look back at Gettyburg and weigh it aginst the feed slaves, and the Bulge against the liberated Jews, but we don’t have much to show for 1917-18, so we largely ignore that part of our history. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/18 "2002-11-03T04:52:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Slithy Tove \* > \*\* > > You may be right about that, as a 3-day toll, but as catastrophies in the Western Hemisphere go, I don’t think our civil war can compare to the War of the Triple Alliance, 1864-1870, when Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay ganged up on Paraguay. By the end of the war, Paraguay’s army was mosly little boys armed with rocks. The 1870 male population of Paraguay was 1/10th of 1864, these men and boys killed or taken as slaves to Brazil. > \*\* Factoid about Paraguay in that war: in those 6 years they lost 58% of their population (dropped from 525,000 to 221,000 for a loss of 304,000). ---
**Author:** ![I\_am\_Sparticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@I\_am\_Sparticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_am_Sparticus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/19 "2002-11-03T04:53:35Z")
I would think Verdun, Somme and Stalingrad would “take the cake” so to speak. 300,000 seems low for Stalingrad, I seem to recall that was the Russian body count for the Battle of Berlin. ---
**Author:** ![Daoloth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Daoloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daoloth)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954/20 "2002-11-03T04:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by I am Sparticus \* > \*\*I would think Verdun, Somme and Stalingrad would “take the cake” so to speak. 300,000 seems low for Stalingrad, I seem to recall that was the Russian body count for the Battle of Berlin. \*\* Yeah, Stalingrad had upwards of 800,000 (300,000 Axis, 500,000 Russian, or thereabouts), but I wasn’t positive when I first posted. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-among-the-bloodiest-battles-in-history/134954.md?page=2)