# What Are Examples of Unpatriotic Acts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916 "2003-03-20T22:31:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/41 "2003-03-21T17:17:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsarina \* > \*\*Some things I consider unpatriotic, if not downright rude: > > - people horsing around or making cracks at war memorials. Most kids are pretty good about this, but there’s always the smartass who has to pretend like he’s just been shot or whatnot. I, one of the most unpatriotic people I know, have been known to hiss “Show some respect!” at kids when they do it. > \*\* This is just downright rude. I don’t care if it’s a memorial or a graveyard or a battlefield (or all three), acting like a rude jerk at one of those in _any_ country is disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/42 "2003-03-21T17:21:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spiritus Mundi \* > \*\*I would say no, because I think that “love” is an emotion for which we cannot always accept a self-description. A man might kidnap his ex-girlfriend, beat her into submission, and hold her captive to his desires all the while claiming that he does so for love. In his mind this might be love, but it is not the emotion that I mean when I say the word. \*\* Fair enough. So there is an _objective_ standard we can apply here - regardless of my subjective beliefs, there are certain acts, or words, that are objectively unpatriotic? ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/43 "2003-03-21T17:27:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bricker \* > \*\*In my OP, I mentioned the Montana Freemen. > > Let’s now assume that I have organized the Northern Virginia Free-thinking Men, and equipped them with rifles, grenade launchers, and given each platoon leader a strong white stallion to ride. I march my group of 500 or so into downtown DC and storm the US Capitol, because I can see that the war is wrong, and Congress has abdicated its constitutional duty to declare war, instead spinelessly leaving complete control in the hands of the President. My goal is to restore Congress to the hands of true patriots, men who would never let Our Boys be sent off to die in a foreign land except upon legal action. > > I’m a patriot, yes? I’m acting in the face of clear government illegality, and doing so out of a love of my country. > > - Rick \*\* Your actions are patriotic if they are successful. Your actions are treasonable if you fail. Sua ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/44 "2003-03-21T17:35:57Z")
I suspect that it will be extraordinarily difficult to agree upon a set of objective criteria to define “patriotic.” I am of the mindset that a patriot fights for the ideals upon which his or her country was founded. Many of the acts that others have mentioned as unpatriotic are acts of free speech. Many of the acts others have mentioned are discourteous. I cannot agree that acting up at Arlington National Cemetary, burning the flag, failing to remove a cap, or standing with one’s back turned at the flag are unpatriotic. In the face of overwhelming and typically mindless opposition, I see some of these acts as courageous displays of patriotism. I think it comes down to the question of whether one can conceptualize abstract concepts such as freedom, tolerance, and democracy, or alternatively one imbues material items and acts as the ensigns of patriotism. I am a patriot if I fight against the subversion of the principles of America by any person or group. ---
**Author:** ![nogginhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5e9695/32.png) [@nogginhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nogginhead)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/45 "2003-03-21T17:55:10Z")
Your definition is anti-patriotic! Patriotism is blind loyalty to the government and fetishism of our national signs and symbols! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![regurgit8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/58f4c7/32.png) [@regurgit8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/regurgit8)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/46 "2003-03-21T17:56:01Z")
Is it unpatriotic to have a picture of W. on the wall with a steak knife through it? LOL! I don’t know why I’m so proud of that one. I brag about it on every forum I’m on. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/47 "2003-03-21T18:01:59Z")
I’d expand that so as not to be limited to the ideals of a particular class in the late 18th century, but to allow for evolution of the ideals that your country _should_ stand for. I’d further expand that to recognizing that the world is larger than any country, and it is possible and often admirable to recognize a primary loyalty to the world as a whole over one’s particular country. There seems to be a consensus across the spectrum here, one I’ll join, that a patriotic act is done out of love for one’s country and its ideals, and a desire to protect or improve it or fix it as required. That leaves very little room for the existence of unpatriotic acts except for those motivated by the reverse - and such acts are hard to find real-world examples of. But one that certainly does qualify as unpatriotic, IMHO, is to accuse anyone who has differing views about what is best for the country of lack unpatriotism - or of its near-synonyms, treason or hatred of the country ( **Sam** , you there, champ?). Such accusations tear at the essential cohesiveness of a democratic society, especially one based on the idea that we try to understand and work out our differences instead of trying to simply impose our own views. Such accusations cannot benefit anyone _but_ the society’s enemies, whether external or internal - while they may not be consciously unpatriotic but simply irresponsible, they are still not patriotic with respect to either the country or the world. “My country: When right, to be kept right; _when wrong, to be put right_; but my country, right or wrong!” - Lt. Stephen Decatur as updated by Carl Schurz ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/48 "2003-03-21T18:28:54Z")
> [@](#): > > So there is an objective standard we can apply here - regardless of my subjective beliefs, there are certain acts, or words, that are objectively unpatriotic? No, there are myraid subjective standards. I apply my own and argue for why I think it is correct. Others apply different definitions for “love” or “country” or “patriotism”. I declare them to be unpatriotic if hose differences result in significant violations of my standard. Others call me unpatriotic because I violate their own. There is no broad consensus. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/49 "2003-03-21T18:34:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SimonX \* > \*\*I think that the military _might_ clear the outgoing info and “preferrentially” place and inform troops that have embedded journalists so as to influence the potential info available to the journalists. I really think our news coverage will be “safe” for us.😉 \*\* They recently did. There was a decided change about what kind of information is being reported now and thats good. …boring but good. …daaaang. This was is so boring, CNN interupted their war reporting for some local news. This is about as exciting as a 2 hour car trip with relatives. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/50 "2003-03-21T23:26:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by X~Slayer(ALE) \* > \*\* …daaaang. This was is so boring, CNN interupted their war reporting for some local news. This is about as exciting as a 2 hour car trip with relatives. \*\* I’m sure the Iraquis who are being blown to bits right now find the war more interesting than you do. What do you want? More blood? More explosions? I’m sure that the primary goal of our armed forces is to make this as entertaining as possible to watch. I don’t mean to be harsh, but this statement sort of angered me. ---
**Author:** ![X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbe5ce/32.png) [@X\_Slayer\_ALE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/X_Slayer_ALE)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/51 "2003-03-22T00:07:57Z")
The Shockinaw thing did it for me. Thanks. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: ☹ Actually, I was more hoping for more iraqi surrenders, more iraqi citizens welcoming the US troops, more bases taken over without too much resistance and Republican guard defections. I was really hoping that the military would do what Saddam was too proud to do, put the safety and wellbeing of the citizens ahead of ambition and power. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/52 "2003-03-22T02:00:55Z")
**Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.** _Samuel Johnson, 1775_ ---
**Author:** ![errata](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/839c29/32.png) [@errata](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/errata)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/53 "2003-03-22T02:03:09Z")
I believe patriotism is marked by intense feelings for one’s country. Thus one wouldn’t have to hate a country to be unpatriotic just be uncaring. Sitting around watching the tube I suppose could be considered unpatriotic. I personally don’t have a problem with being called unpatriotic since it is really just jingoism lite. Even if I agreed wholeheartedly with all of this nation’s policies, I still wouldn’t have inspired feelings of love for a bureaucracy backed up by a military force. I love people, not nations. ---
**Author:** ![Eclectic\_Skeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19b73/32.png) [@Eclectic\_Skeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclectic_Skeptic)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2003, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916/54 "2003-03-27T09:04:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*Your actions are patriotic if they are successful. > Your actions are treasonable if you fail. > > Sua \*\* Treason doth never prosper, for if it prospers, none dare call it treason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-are-examples-of-unpatriotic-acts/162916.md?page=2)